Stadium/Arena Saga Omnibus

[chcarlson23]

55 minutes ago, Digby said:

I'm kind of cynical on these stadium-village developments because I've yet to see any of them have any character or interesting stuff going on, but yeah, it's better than nothing and when I visited the United Center I found it kind of shocking that it was such a sea-of-parking type of stadium in CHICAGO of all places.

I just visited Chicago a couple of months ago, and stayed near the UIC campus with family from Chicago. They showed us around to a bunch of places in the neighborhood or a neighborhood or two over. We ended up driving right down Madison, and right past the United Center. I’ve heard that the UC was surrounded by parking lots, so somehow, I thought that it was farther out in the Suburbs than it actually is (despite that feeling weird to me too haha)
 

I was definitely shocked to see the same thing, just how close it is to a plethora of mixed-use neighborhoods and downtown, and yet is somehow surrounded by parking lots, like it’s in the middle of nowhere somehow. Cool to see they’ll be putting more in there, to fill in a neighborhood around the stadium 

[BBTV]

1 hour ago, The_Admiral said:

It was embarrassing that the largest arena in the country in its third-largest city was just sitting 2 miles from downtown in a sea of asphalt with nothing to do. Glad they're fixing it.

 

That's basically the Phila sports complex, with the Wells Fargo now being "state of the art" after a half billion dollar renovation.  Comcast and the Phillies are developing the entire area, which will also lead to suburban dorks complaining about parking their unnecessarily-large vehicles, but.... I don't know what they can possibly do to make that area a destination.  Unless they have legal brothels down there, nobody is going to go there for a non game day, regardless of what major restaurateur sets up shop there.  The Navy Yard is one of the most successful redevelopments that I've ever seen, but it has its own things, and people that work there just want to go home (and the subway stops juuuuuuuust short of the Yard, even though it's been the number one thing on the agenda for the past 40 years, but idiots don't understand that funding projects like that is kind of important.)

 

They're also now offering the Sixers a 50/50 partnership in the arena, which blows my mind.  I think the Center City arena will happen, which will give Phila two completely privately financed* arenas / developments.

 

*they both use PILOTs, which could be argued is a public subsidy, and there's infrastructure upgrades, but like what you said in Chicago's case, should happen anyway.

 

 

[BBTV]

I don't know where this goes, but since it's kinda stadium related, Wells Fargo has ended its agreement with Comcast to have their name on the arena.

 

So that place will have been the Corestates Center, First Union Center, Wachovia Center, Wells Fargo Center, and now something else.

 

My hope and dream is that the Sixers arena gets built and Wells Fargo gets its name on it just as a middle finger to the Flyers, who will almost certainly give a middle finger to the Sixers by calling it the Comcast Center or Xfinity Center or the Ed Snider > Josh Harris Arena.

 

[The_Admiral]

1 hour ago, Digby said:

I'm kind of cynical on these stadium-village developments because I've yet to see any of them have any character or interesting stuff going on, but yeah, it's better than nothing and when I visited the United Center I found it kind of shocking that it was such a sea-of-parking type of stadium in CHICAGO of all places.

The early '90s were a tricky moment: too late for urban renewal, too early for New Urbanism. Reinsdorf managed to whiff on Comiskey and the United Center, ensuring ample parking for both right before cities decided they didn't really need that anymore. The Palace of Auburn Hills was the blueprint for major arenas and now it's gone without a trace like the Richfield Coliseum.

 

But even any semblance of development around the Stadium was long gone by at least the '70s, too, back in the days of "pay a kid $10 to make sure nothing happens." Thus, a weird case where you can't really say they're "going back to how it used to be" because for most people, it never used to be.

 

  

13 minutes ago, chcarlson23 said:

I was definitely shocked to see the same thing, just how close it is to a plethora of mixed-use neighborhoods and downtown, and yet is somehow surrounded by parking lots, like it’s in the middle of nowhere somehow. Cool to see they’ll be putting more in there, to fill in a neighborhood around the stadium 

 

It's truly weird. I've gotten off at Ashland for shows at Bottom Lounge. It's half a mile, give or take, from the United Center. It does not feel remotely that close to the United Center. It really is just all by itself out there. 

[Digby]

Yeah Philly is the other great example of this in what is otherwise one of the few truly-urban American cities. Though at least they've got the easily accessible subway stop serving the entire complex.

 

Football stadiums I can understand being outside the core/surrounded by parking, they're too large and too little-used to fit neatly into a neighborhood the way a 20k arena or even a 35k baseball stadium can.

[Sec19Row53]

3 hours ago, Digby said:

Football stadiums I can understand being outside the core/surrounded by parking, they're too large and too little-used to fit neatly into a neighborhood the way a 20k arena or even a 35k baseball stadium can.

Lambeau says hi

[GDAWG]

9 hours ago, Sec19Row53 said:

Lambeau says hi

 

It would be a cool visual to see Lambeau Field (or at least the front of it) in one's backyard.  

[Sec19Row53]

9 hours ago, GDAWG said:

 

It would be a cool visual to see Lambeau Field (or at least the front of it) in one's backyard.  

This was from 2006 or so. We would park at this house and tailgate in the back yard. It's been bought by the owner of the ESPN Milwaukee radio system, so we aren't there any more.  The stadium looks different now, but it's still right there. Most of the yards have that little 3 foot high chain link fence at their back, and then you're in the parking lot. The house next door with cars parked in it has a gate in its fence to make it easier to just get to the game.

[The_Admiral]

7 hours ago, Sec19Row53 said:

It's been bought by the owner of the ESPN Milwaukee radio system, so we aren't there any more. 

Craig's good people.

 

Lambeau and Green Bay itself are of course most delightful outliers in all this, but I agree that football stadiums aren't good fits for "neighborhoods," per se. The 78, where the Bears should be building, isn't really a neighborhood despite all the highrises popping up around there. That kind of big blighted empty space in an urban setting would be perfect for them, which is why they won't do it.

[Sec19Row53]

3 minutes ago, The_Admiral said:

Craig's good people.

 

Lambeau and Green Bay itself are of course most delightful outliers in all this, but I agree that football stadiums aren't good fits for "neighborhoods," per se. The 78, where the Bears should be building, isn't really a neighborhood despite all the highrises popping up around there. That kind of big blighted empty space in an urban setting would be perfect for them, which is why they won't do it.

Lambeau and Wrigley have so much in common in terms of their neighborhood location. 

[tigerslionspistonshabs]

23 hours ago, Sec19Row53 said:

This was from 2006 or so. We would park at this house and tailgate in the back yard. It's been bought by the owner of the ESPN Milwaukee radio system, so we aren't there any more.  The stadium looks different now, but it's still right there. Most of the yards have that little 3 foot high chain link fence at their back, and then you're in the parking lot. The house next door with cars parked in it has a gate in its fence to make it easier to just get to the game.

 

That's cool. Do the homeowners charge to park in their yards? That would be a nice little side hustle. Just charge less than the stadium and the surrounding lots. 

[Sec19Row53]

1 hour ago, tigerslionspistonshabs said:

 

That's cool. Do the homeowners charge to park in their yards? That would be a nice little side hustle. Just charge less than the stadium and the surrounding lots. 

Yes they do. There's essentially no available stadium parking on game day. It's all annual passes at this point. Because of their location, some of these homes are able to charge the highest prices around.

[tigerslionspistonshabs]

26 minutes ago, Sec19Row53 said:

Yes they do. There's essentially no available stadium parking on game day. It's all annual passes at this point. Because of their location, some of these homes are able to charge the highest prices around.

 

Wow...that'd be a solid investment.

 

*checks realtor.com*

[tBBP]

1 hour ago, tigerslionspistonshabs said:

 

Wow...that'd be a solid investment.

 

*checks realtor.com*

 

Good luck with that one...you'll have an easier time prying a fish out of a shark's mouth.

 

On 7/26/2024 at 9:29 AM, Sec19Row53 said:

This was from 2006 or so. We would park at this house and tailgate in the back yard. It's been bought by the owner of the ESPN Milwaukee radio system, so we aren't there any more.  The stadium looks different now, but it's still right there. Most of the yards have that little 3 foot high chain link fence at their back, and then you're in the parking lot. The house next door with cars parked in it has a gate in its fence to make it easier to just get to the game.

 

I still remember the first time I saw that for myself back around 2013 or so. I thought it was both the weirdest and yet coolest things I've ever seen. I mean, you grow up somewhere down south, hearing and reading about all the nostalgia and history and tradition and whatnot about Green Bay and the Packers, but you have no frame of reference for the on-the-ground experience. I'd seen a few stadia, but it didn't prepare me for this. Mind you it was offseason the first time I went, but I remember just walking up to Lambeau, not realizing it was in a neighborhood that looked a lot like one of the ones I grew up in (read: lots and lots of otherwise nondescript one-story single-driveway houses), and then I got around to the backside of the lot and...backyards and fences. And that's for the houses that had backyard fences...some of them did not. So one could really just walk out their back door, stroll through their yard and roll right into the parking lot. 

 

Total sidebar, but the second time I went back it was in season, on like a Tuesday or something. I don't even remember what load I was on that had me up there, but I did the Hall of Fame and stadium tour that day...can you say WOW. All that memorabilia down there, Lombardi's office and whatnot, rolling up on the locker room while the team was in there (obviously the stadium guides wouldn't let us go in there), walking out on the field, then up in the stands....look, those of you who've not been down there to see all of what's in there, let me offer you a piece of advice: DO IT.

[Sec19Row53]

2 hours ago, tigerslionspistonshabs said:

 

Wow...that'd be a solid investment.

 

*checks realtor.com*

The Packers have been buying homes that aren't even listed for sale. The picture I showed earlier was one of three homes that were bought for around $1.1 million total. Two recent homes were bought and torn down and they were approaching that number individually. 

 

It really is a sight. Lambeau can be seen from a few miles away because the neighborhood it is in is just homes. It looms large, and the effect increases as you get closer.

 

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2024/07/11/green-bay-packers-continue-to-buy-land-around-lambeau-field/74338290007/

[RyanMcD29]

It's not quite the same effect as Lambeau, but Orchard Park's kinda funny like that too where you go one block north of US 20 and you're in a residential neighborhood. The block Ralph Wilson Stadium's on is pretty much on its own of just the stadium, the new stadium, and the parking lots but otherwise you got a suburban neighborhood in one block in any direction. The juxtaposition of driving 2 minutes from the stadium to the neighborhood Wegmans was kinda funny

[WestCoastBias]

Am I crazy? How does a 80k seat stadium surrounded by a parking lot fit nicely into a neighborhood of single family homes? 

 

Lambeau does not compare to ballparks that are actually part of neighborhoods with multi-family housing and transit where people live, work, and hang out even when there's not events going on. That is what St Petersburg appears to want to do with the new Rays stadium and good on them for going that route instead of doing what the Braves and Rangers have done, I hope it's a huge success.

[BBTV]

7 minutes ago, WestCoastBias said:

Am I crazy? How does a 80k seat stadium surrounded by a parking lot fit nicely into a neighborhood of single family homes? 

 

Lambeau does not compare to ballparks that are actually part of neighborhoods with multi-family housing and transit where people live, work, and hang out even when there's not events going on. That is what St Petersburg appears to want to do with the new Rays stadium and good on them for going that route instead of doing what the Braves and Rangers have done, I hope it's a huge success.

 

Remember, it was originally much smaller, and the league wasn't nearly as big in the '50s as it is now.  But even then, the area around the stadium was much different then than it is now:

When what is now Lambeau Field was built in 1957, the neighborhood was much different than today. It was surrounded by farm fields, including a farmhouse and barn in the stadium's west parking lot.

 

https://www.packers.com/news/sneak-preview-lambeau-field-neighborhood-very-different-back-then

 

 

So, what's wild is that as the stadium grew, so did the housing around it.  It wasn't that houses existed and a stadium was plopped there, but rather the opposite - something I didn't know until now.

 

I found this about its original size.  Doesn't seem too big:

"The concrete would include the first 60 rows of the sideline seats, or what today would be sections 111 to 127 on the east side and sections 112 to 128 on the west side. In the end zone, it would basically include the first 21 rows of sections 129 to 138 at the south end and sections 101 to 110 at the north end. The structural steel supporting those aboveground sections of the sideline seats also remains intact."  

 

Also, while yeah it's kinda crazy for most of us to think about, it's not that much different than what I'm sure a few of the big college stadiums are like - but I'm not 100% sure about that.

 

 

 

[WestCoastBias]

22 minutes ago, BBTV said:

 

Remember, it was originally much smaller, and the league wasn't nearly as big in the '50s as it is now.  But even then, the area around the stadium was much different then than it is now:

When what is now Lambeau Field was built in 1957, the neighborhood was much different than today. It was surrounded by farm fields, including a farmhouse and barn in the stadium's west parking lot.

 

https://www.packers.com/news/sneak-preview-lambeau-field-neighborhood-very-different-back-then

 

 

So, what's wild is that as the stadium grew, so did the housing around it.  It wasn't that houses existed and a stadium was plopped there, but rather the opposite - something I didn't know until now.

 

I found this about its original size.  Doesn't seem too big:

"The concrete would include the first 60 rows of the sideline seats, or what today would be sections 111 to 127 on the east side and sections 112 to 128 on the west side. In the end zone, it would basically include the first 21 rows of sections 129 to 138 at the south end and sections 101 to 110 at the north end. The structural steel supporting those aboveground sections of the sideline seats also remains intact."  

 

Also, while yeah it's kinda crazy for most of us to think about, it's not that much different than what I'm sure a few of the big college stadiums are like - but I'm not 100% sure about that.

 

 

 

 

College stadiums and Lambeau definitely have a lot in common. 

[Sec19Row53]

The seating bowl of those 60 rows is still intact. It was finally completed (that is 60 rows all around the stadium) for the 1968 season (IIRC).  The view that @BBTV posted has the north end zone on the right.  Here's an overhead view from Google maps that shows what it looks like 'now'. I-41 is to the far left of the photo. North is the top.

 

Here's a shot early in its lifetime. South is at the top of this photo. The house we used to tailgate at from that earlier photo is at the open lot next to what looks like a low, white roofed barn or storage building. The last white house on the far side of the street is one of the two in the article I linked earlier that was just bought for big bucks.