Maroon&Gold

NCAA Votes To Allow College Athletes To Profit From Name, Image And Likeness

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1 hour ago, Brian in Boston said:


What are these "hicks" going to do if America's colleges and universities refuse to supply them with "big time" college athletics, as opposed to "small time" completion? Force the schools to close? How will they do that? By cutting off funding to said academic institutions? Studies have shown that the monies that are pumped into "big time" college athletic programs do not, in fact, subsidize academic programs.

In fact, while the money flowing into "big time" college sports has increased via skyrocketing TV rights deals, endorsement and licensing fees, and the largesse of major donors, that money is spoken for. Athletic departments are quickly spending the increased amounts of money they bring in as part of the effort to stay relevant in an escalating college sports arms race. The NCAA itself has reported that athletic departments that make more than they spend are still a minority.

Again, the top priority - indeed, responsibility - of America's colleges and universities is to provide students with an education. Providing interscholastic athletic competition - either for students to participate in, or spectators to watch - is a potentialextracurricular activity. It is not - despite what the "hicks", boosters, advertisers, and executives at broadcasting outlets and major professional sports leagues might think and/or desire - a requirement, or a priority.        

 

You can use all the bold, italics, and underlining you want, but it doesn't change things. You're basically arguing against yourself, because I don't think most people disagree with you, it's just that pragmatism has to win out over idealism in cases like this.  

 

Again, you're not wrong, but just being a little too quixotic about the issue.

 

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1 hour ago, BringBackTheVet said:

... pragmatism has to win out over idealism in cases like this.

 

When "pragmatism has to win out over idealism" because the leadership at our nation's colleges and universities have elected to abrogate their responsibilities as educators in order to provide the "hicks" and boosters of the world with their fix of "big time college athletics", this country has lost its way.

 

Even more disturbing is that so many people are willing to shrug their shoulders and resignedly say, "Well... what can we do? This is just the way things are."

 

It's pathetic that even our academic institutions have been reduced to giving the masses their "bread and circuses".

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53 minutes ago, Brian in Boston said:

Even more disturbing is that so many people are willing to shrug their shoulders and resignedly say, "Well... what can we do? This is just the way things are."

 

So what are you doing about it besides arguing with yourself on an internet message board?

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11 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

So what are you doing about it besides arguing with yourself on an internet message board?

 

Spreading ideas is a fundamental part of participating in a society, and constitutes the main thing that an individual can do about any issue.

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14 hours ago, Brian in Boston said:

 

When "pragmatism has to win out over idealism" because the leadership at our nation's colleges and universities have elected to abrogate their responsibilities as educators in order to provide the "hicks" and boosters of the world with their fix of "big time college athletics", this country has lost its way.

 

Even more disturbing is that so many people are willing to shrug their shoulders and resignedly say, "Well... what can we do? This is just the way things are."

 

It's pathetic that even our academic institutions have been reduced to giving the masses their "bread and circuses".

NOBODY IS DISAGREEING WITH YOU BRIAN.

The thing is that nothing short of legislation at the national level that makes it illegal for universities to profit off of athletic endeavours and legislation that makes it illegal for networks to pay the NCAA or universities themselves exorbitant rights fees to air games will result in what you're advocating for. College sports in the US is a billion dollar industry and nothing short of government regulation the American public no longer has the stomach for will alter that fact.

 

So when looking at the world as it is rather than how it should be? I want to find fair and practical solutions to the problem at hand. And while College athletics being a billion dollar industry is awful in and of itself? It's far less awful if the athletes are fairly compensated for the money they bring in. It's far less grand that turning the clock back to a time when collegiate athletics were small time extracurriculars, but unlike that idea? This one is remotely feasible at the present moment. 

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20 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

So what are you doing about it besides arguing with yourself on an internet message board?


I communicate to officials at each of my collegiate alma maters that the priority of the institutions is education, as opposed to serving as the talent-development system for major professional sports leagues and the provider of content for sports media outlets. I make it clear that my continued financial support of said institutions will most certainly be impacted by the decisions that their administrations make with regard to the priority that is placed upon intercollegiate athletics within the overall operation of each school.

I communicate to elected officials in the states in which I maintain residences, operate businesses, and pay taxes, that the priority of public colleges and universities in said jurisdictions is education, as opposed to serving as the talent-development system for major professional sports leagues and the provider of content for sports media outlets. I let them know that taxpayer-generated public dollars earmarked for institutions of higher education should be going towards assisting public colleges and universities in actually educating their students, as opposed to such egregiously inappropriate expenditures as meeting the sky-high salary demands of intercollegiate sports coaches. I make it clear that my support of political officials/candidates - at the ballot box in the state where I am registered to vote, and via donations in all of the jurisdictions in which I maintain residences and pay taxes - will, in part, be predicated upon the decisions that they make with regard to the priority they give to managing the increasingly outsized role that intercollegiate athletics plays on college and university campuses.

I communicate to federal elected officials that steps need to be taken - including those similar to what Ice_Cap has outlined - to curb the abuses that are occurring within intercollegiate athletics and are threatening the ability of our nation's colleges and universities to properly focus on what is their true mandate: education.    

I refrain from purchasing overpriced tickets to "big time" college athletics contests, paying for athletic conference cable television packages, or filling the pockets of athletic apparel and equipment manufacturers for licensed products.

Now, do my actions amount to "a drop of water in the ocean"? Yes, most likely. After all, there are an awful lot of people in this country who don't care one iota about the crisis in college athletics so long as they can get their fill of "National Signing Day", "College Football Saturday", "March Madness", "The Rozen Four", and "The Road to Omaha". 

That said, I'll continue to "tilt at windmills", no matter how futile it may be. Better that, than simply throwing up my hands and giving in to a multibillion dollar cash-grab that has co-opted the mission of our nation's academic institutions and turned their athletic departments into minor league sports training facilities. 
                    

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On 6/29/2019 at 1:34 PM, GDAWG said:

 

That would be a bad idea for football.  The NFL sees the NCAA as a free developmental league for them.  Getting rid of college sports altogether would have a significant impact on the NFL.  This would not affect the NBA, NHL and MLB at all if the NCAA went away but it would for the NFL.

 

It could make the NFL better. The players aren't developing properly in college. For example, a lot of O-linemen don't know what certain types of blocks are when they come into the league. The NFL would have a better product if they developed their own players, and not put that responsibility on the colleges.

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5 hours ago, Brian in Boston said:

I communicate to federal elected officials that steps need to be taken - including those similar to what Ice_Cap has outlined...

To be clear- I’d support such legislation. I’m just not sure it’s ever going to be feasible :(  

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7 hours ago, Brian in Boston said:


I communicate to officials at each of my collegiate alma maters that the priority of the institutions is education, as opposed to serving as the talent-development system for major professional sports leagues and the provider of content for sports media outlets. I make it clear that my continued financial support of said institutions will most certainly be impacted by the decisions that their administrations make with regard to the priority that is placed upon intercollegiate athletics within the overall operation of each school.

I communicate to elected officials in the states in which I maintain residences, operate businesses, and pay taxes, that the priority of public colleges and universities in said jurisdictions is education, as opposed to serving as the talent-development system for major professional sports leagues and the provider of content for sports media outlets. I let them know that taxpayer-generated public dollars earmarked for institutions of higher education should be going towards assisting public colleges and universities in actually educating their students, as opposed to such egregiously inappropriate expenditures as meeting the sky-high salary demands of intercollegiate sports coaches. I make it clear that my support of political officials/candidates - at the ballot box in the state where I am registered to vote, and via donations in all of the jurisdictions in which I maintain residences and pay taxes - will, in part, be predicated upon the decisions that they make with regard to the priority they give to managing the increasingly outsized role that intercollegiate athletics plays on college and university campuses.

I communicate to federal elected officials that steps need to be taken - including those similar to what Ice_Cap has outlined - to curb the abuses that are occurring within intercollegiate athletics and are threatening the ability of our nation's colleges and universities to properly focus on what is their true mandate: education.    

I refrain from purchasing overpriced tickets to "big time" college athletics contests, paying for athletic conference cable television packages, or filling the pockets of athletic apparel and equipment manufacturers for licensed products.

Now, do my actions amount to "a drop of water in the ocean"? Yes, most likely. After all, there are an awful lot of people in this country who don't care one iota about the crisis in college athletics so long as they can get their fill of "National Signing Day", "College Football Saturday", "March Madness", "The Rozen Four", and "The Road to Omaha". 

That said, I'll continue to "tilt at windmills", no matter how futile it may be. Better that, than simply throwing up my hands and giving in to a multibillion dollar cash-grab that has co-opted the mission of our nation's academic institutions and turned their athletic departments into minor league sports training facilities. 
                    

 

That's all very admirable, but as you've conceded, it's likely futile.  I think it's unfair to criticize people who are trying to come up with plans that can address the problems within the system, even if we all recognize that the problem is the system.  Chipping away at the rock is easier than detonating it, and doesn't prevent work on a detonation from occurring in parallel.

 

Are you also protesting the TV networks that are lining up to pay 100M+ licensing deals for some of these conferences?  No school would decline that kind of money, and schools are scratching and clawing over each other to get affiliated with conferences that bring in that kind of cash.

 

 

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16 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

That's all very admirable, but as you've conceded, it's likely futile. 


Thanks for the pat on the head.
 

Quote

So what are you doing about it besides arguing with yourself on an internet message board?


Fair is fair... so, what are you doing about the crisis in American intercollegiate athletics. You know, besides "trying to come up with plans that can address the problems within the system"... and then, sharing them within the echo chamber "on an internet message board"? What steps have you taken, besides pronouncing opinions and spitballing plans "on an internet message board"?

Say what you will about the likely futility of the steps I've taken to make my voice heard on this subject outside of the CCSLC, the fact remains that I've actually taken them.

 

 

Quote

I think it's unfair to criticize people who are trying to come up with plans that can address the problems within the system, even if we all recognize that the problem 

is the system.  Chipping away at the rock is easier than detonating it, and doesn't prevent work on a detonation from occurring in parallel.


It seems equally unfair that someone whose contribution to "chipping away at the rock" seems to have been limited to debating the topic of the crisis within American college athletics "on an internet message board" has the audacity to offhandedly dismiss the concrete actions - no matter how futile - of others to address said problem . 

 

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I think it's just a matter of time until college athletes are paid. Public opinion seems to be trending towards it.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Maroon&Gold said:

Just passed committee 9-0. California isn't bull :censored:ting

Actually it was 11-0 with one abstention by the State Assembly Higher Education Committee.  It now goes to the Assembly Appropriations Committee  which should address it in August, around the same time the NCAA's Working Group on NLI gives the membership a status report and a final report in October.

 

Quote

Long Beach State University Athletic Director Andy Fee and university lobbyists from Stanford, USC and California public universities testified in opposition to the bill Tuesday, warning it could spark unintended consequences and hurt student-athletes throughout California.

University of California lobbyist Tyler Aguilar told state lawmakers they should wait until the NCAA publishes results from the Name, Image and Likeness Working Group the organization established in May before moving forward with the bill.

Defying the NCAA, Aguilar warned, could harm the state's student-athletes. If California moves forward before other states and allows college athletes to accept endorsements, it could lead to confusion and jeopardize their eligibility, he said.

But CUNY law professor Marc Edelman said lawmakers should worry more about protecting student-athletes from the NCAA violating federal law than they should worry about the NCAA's bylaws. If the NCAA penalizes California for passing S.B. 206, Edelman said, it would constitute wage fixing and a group boycott, putting the organization in violation of U.S. anti-trust law.

The NCAA has to follow the law of the land and that includes Section 1 of the Sherman Act," he said, citing the 130-year-old federal law governing monopolies and competition among businesses.

Source: https://www.desertsun.com/story/news/politics/2019/07/10/california-advances-bill-allow-ncaa-athletes-profit-name-image-and-likeness/1688951001/

Edited by dfwabel
link added

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Good. The NCAA making noise is because they know this will set a precedent and they’ll lose their influence. 

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Anything that kills college athletics dead is a public good. 

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Whether California S.B. 206 or Washington HB 1084 becomes law, the NCAA will be in a dilemma regardless.  Their NIL Working Group chaired by Big East Commissioner Val Ackerman would not only have to adhere to state law(s), but also to a federal rulings from the O'Bannon and Alston cases which were tried in the court of Judge Claudia Wilken. 

 

In short, NIL really isn't tied to education, and thus would likely violate the O'Bannon ruling, which reads in part:

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“The difference between offering student-athletes education-relation compensation and offering them cash sums untethered to educational expenses is not minor: it is a quantum leap. One that line is crossed, we have little doubt that plaintiffs will continue to challenge the arbitrary limit imposed by the district court ($5,000) until they have captured the full value of their NIL. At that point the NCAA will have surrendered its amateurism principles entirely and transitioned from its ‘particular brand of football’ to minor league status.”

 

The attorneys for the NCAA may state that the compensation isn't tied to the university and thus education, but rather from a third party, which would keep member schools within the O'Bannon ruling.  San Diego sports attorney and adjunct professor Len Simon has written about the third party work around in an Op-Ed as well as a dissection of the Alston ruling.

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On 7/13/2019 at 11:15 AM, Gothamite said:

Anything that kills college athletics dead is a public good. 

I'd disagree on that point. If it killed ridiculous coaching salaries and the facilities arms race that is on par with nuclear proliferation but with more actors, that would be good for colleges and the public good. Most universities in other parts of the world function more like the mid to bottom Division III schools, where sports are important as a way to keep students active physically while on a campus. The idea that people are complaining that we shouldn't mess with tradition then turn around and say FCS football will eventually be split even further into two more divisions, even if not in name, is ridiculous. If that happens,I hope it ends interest in college football at that level because then it becomes NFL football with more teams and no pay. 

 

On 7/2/2019 at 7:23 PM, Quillz said:

I think it's just a matter of time until college athletes are paid. Public opinion seems to be trending towards it.

I think the most likely result will be to let athletes do commercials for brands that are supporting the school. Not sure if they'll be able to cap the max amount that the kids can get paid but I'm sure they'll set some sort of scale if that does happen. 

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54 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

I'd disagree on that point. If it killed ridiculous coaching salaries and the facilities arms race that is on par with nuclear proliferation but with more actors, that would be good for colleges and the public good. Most universities in other parts of the world function more like the mid to bottom Division III schools, where sports are important as a way to keep students active physically while on a campus.

 

Club sports are one thing.   But beyond that level, college athletics are immoral and indefensible.  I would gladly support anything that would kill that system dead. 

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Pac-12 Commissioner Larry Scott addressed SB 206 during yesterday's Football Media Day:

Quote

Q. What would your reaction be or what would the conference’s reaction be if in Sacramento or another state capital legislation was in the future signed into law, as is being considered, that would allow student-athletes to be paid and/or sponsored?

LARRY SCOTT: So we are very clearly opposed to any type of pay-for-play system. Notably, the federal courts in the Ninth Circuit have also weighed in now on multiple occasions to say they do not support any system for compensation for student-athletes that’s not tethered to education. I think we’d be opposed to the type of system you described, and it would certainly be a violation of NCAA rules. Having said that, the NCAA is about to start exploration whether there is a possible system to look at name, image and likeness value for student-athletes that is tethered to education that is not pay for play, and we’ll see where that process goes. In fact, one of our athletics directors, Rick George from Colorado, is on the committee. I think he’s flying there today to start that conversation. So we support that conversation, but anything that looks like pay for play or compensation to student-athletes that’s not related to their education is something that would run counter to the fundamental nature of collegiate athletics and amateur student-athletes.

 

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Note that on Thursday, Connecticut Sen. Chris Murphy made a second report of his public, but is really isn't earth-shattering. 

Quote

Washington – Sen. Chris Murphy has issued his second report on what he calls “madness” in college athletics, which he says leaves student athletes with worthless diplomas or no diplomas at all.

 

“These kids are being exploited,” Murphy said. “They are being treated as a commodity.”

 

To Murphy, how college athletes are treated is a civil rights issue because he says most of the students who are mistreated by the nation’s colleges are black and the people who exploit them and profit from their athletic prowess are white.

 

His latest report on student athletics, “Madness, Inc.: How Colleges Keep Athletes in the Field an Out of the Classroom,” details what he considers some of the abuses.

They include keeping students on the playing field or the practice field for many hours every week, impeding their students’ ability to attend class or study. Time involved in athletics could reach as high as 60 hours a week, Northwestern University revealed during a National Labor Relations Board hearing on the school’s football team.

 

Murphy’s report also says student athletes are pushed into “easy majors and coursework unrelated to their interests or ambition.”

 

Murphy calls himself a “die-hard UConn fan.”

 

“I love college sports,” he continued, “but I hate the way it dominates policy at the University of Connecticut.”

Madness Inc. Issue #1- How Everyone Is Getting Rich Off College Sports Except The Players

Madness Inc. Issue #2- How Colleges Keep Athletes on the Field and Out of the Classroom

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