NCAA Votes To Allow College Athletes To Profit From Name, Image And Likeness

[WSU151]

1 hour ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

There's no law against that either, just a made-up NCAA rule, made by people who profit off of free football labor, and that benefits coaches and big schools.  Maybe the NCAA is good for non-revenue sports like swimming - I'm not sure - but I fail to see why it's necessary for big-time sports.  

 

Football coaches aren't the highest-paid state employees because they're great strategists.  They're paid well because they recruit the top athletes, who work for free and quite frankly, have demands on them that neither you nor I had (granted their academic demands are likely far less.)  They never made a TV show to film my Comp Sci classes and broadcast them to 10s of millions of people who would place bets on the money line for exams.  

 

I really cannot understand any argument against these guys receiving money for their own likeness when other people directly profit from them, other than 1) jealousy or 2) race.  There it is.  Not saying that you or anyone specific are part of the racial element of this - I obviously don't know what's going through anyone's head - but in a broad sense, I think that's why the overwhelming majority of people who are "outraged" by this just happen to not reflect the composition of the people who will benefit.

 

If (the broad) you wants to argue that they shouldn't be paid by the actual schools as if they're employees, then cool - there's plenty of room for debate around that, and plenty of doors that opens and issues of fairness that come into play.  I happen to feel that they should be able to unionize and be considered 'employees', but I understand that there's plenty of arguments against that.  In this case, we're literally talking about their own likeness.  How would anyone feel about someone else selling pics or videos of them online and getting rich off of it, while you get nothing for being 100% responsible for his wealth?

 

I don't have an argument against the new legislation, which doesn't use athletic department money to pay athletes. The NCAA rules are plenty flawed and have been for a long time. 

 

However, colleges/athletic departments paying athletes directly has a whole bunch of Title IX and labor law implications, as you infer in your last paragraph, and it's the strongest defense the NCAA uses.  

 

My point was the Olympic athletes *in college* are not "being thrown money" and playing college sports at the same time. The golfers cannot take sponsorship or tour money. The baseball players in college have contracts, but they don't earn any of it in college. Kyler Murray never got one dime of his A's contract (edit: he was paid by the A's before his final college football game, but ended up paying back or forfeiting 95% of his A's money when he decided on football). Same with hockey players, I think. 

 

[BBTV]

I've always wondered how it worked for baseball players who are drafted and who's rights are owned by a MLB team even though they're in college.  

 

Do they earn on the contract and the payment is just deferred?  Or does it not start until they leave college and start playing in an actual pro league?

[WSU151]

35 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

I've always wondered how it worked for baseball players who are drafted and who's rights are owned by a MLB team even though they're in college.  

 

Do they earn on the contract and the payment is just deferred?  Or does it not start until they leave college and start playing in an actual pro league?

 

I think this answers part of your question - MLB teams can only hold draft rights for about 75 days. The player either signs and enters the minor leagues, or goes to college for three years, then is eligible to be drafted by a different team, or by the same team but only with the player's consent. 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/draftday/rules.jsp

 

My guess is that if the player goes to college, then there is no contract, and thus there's no money paid to him until he is drafted after junior year. 

[LMU]

35 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

I've always wondered how it worked for baseball players who are drafted and who's rights are owned by a MLB team even though they're in college.  

 

Do they earn on the contract and the payment is just deferred?  Or does it not start until they leave college and start playing in an actual pro league?

Not just baseball. The Kings drafted Alex Turcotte and he’s immediately starting as a freshman at Wisconsin.

 

And it’s a whole other issue with junior teams in hockey and NCAA eligibility.

[WSU151]

2 minutes ago, LMU said:

Not just baseball. The Kings drafted Alex Turcotte and he’s immediately starting as a freshman at Wisconsin.

 

And it’s a whole other issue with junior teams in hockey and NCAA eligibility.

 

But has he actually signed a contract with the Kings? (and Turcotte's situation is definitely not unique in hockey)

 

From this article it sounds like the Kings have two years to offer Turcotte a contract, thus he can play college hockey until that time:

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanlake/2018/06/25/how-the-nhl-draft-presents-a-dilemma-for-europeans/#4158e13e191f

 

I don't know all the rules...and I don't know how pre-season compensation rules work for players going back to college. 

[BBTV]

7 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

 

I think this answers part of your question - MLB teams can only hold draft rights for about 75 days. The player either signs and enters the minor leagues, or goes to college for three years, then is eligible to be drafted by a different team, or by the same team but only with the player's consent. 

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/draftday/rules.jsp

 

My guess is that if the player goes to college, then there is no contract, and thus there's no money paid to him until he is drafted after junior year. 

so even if he drops out after one or two seasons he can’t play pro ball?  I don’t get that - unless there’s an age rule (which there’s obv not) then I’m not sure why he could play after 12th grade but then not until “15th”. 

[WSU151]

16 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

so even if he drops out after one or two seasons he can’t play pro ball?  I don’t get that - unless there’s an age rule (which there’s obv not) then I’m not sure why he could play after 12th grade but then not until “15th”. 

 

Excellent question...don't have a good answer.

 

My guess is if the player drops out of college before turning 21, and does not go to a different college (at same or different level) then he's a free agent. If he doesn't sign with anyone until he's 21, he's eligible to be drafted after 21st birthday. 

[crashcarson15]

3 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

so even if he drops out after one or two seasons he can’t play pro ball?  I don’t get that - unless there’s an age rule (which there’s obv not) then I’m not sure why he could play after 12th grade but then not until “15th”. 

Players who go the junior college route can actually get drafted any year — but once you're at a four-year college, you have to wait until you're a junior or 21 until you can be drafted again.

[dfwabel]

Nothing like saying you care for the welfare of the "student-athlete" while covering your own a$$ before the money might dry up than seeing Baylor's AD receive a 10-year contract extension.

 

And the Texas Legislature doesn't meet again until January 2021.

[FiddySicks]

On 10/1/2019 at 1:26 PM, VDizzle12 said:

NCAA should ban scholarships for California schools (and any other state) that allows athletes to get paid. Make them pay tuition just like everyone else. Millions of Americans are being suffocated by student loan debt. Unable to buy decent homes, reliable vehicles or start families because we're stuck paying for a degree we got 10+ years ago. Most of us had jobs during college and juggled that along with schoolwork. We didn't get special treatment in classes. We didn't get to skip whenever we wanted or miss time for games. I just don't get how anyone can complain about going to school for free. But here we are....

 

Just curious, how much money did you generate for your university on your activities outside of the classroom? 

[The_Admiral]

9 hours ago, WSU151 said:

From this article it sounds like the Kings have two years to offer Turcotte a contract, thus he can play college hockey until that time:

 

It's four years for NCAA players, two for junior

[LMU]

So, here's a few examples of the NCAA and its haphazard application of its amateurism-idolization:

 

*My cousin is Kathryn Plummer - 2-time defending National Player of the Year for indoor volleyball at Stanford.  She played both indoor and beach volleyball her first two years.  The summer after her sophomore year she competed as an at-large entrant in the AVP Hermosa Beach Open.  Her and her partner ended up qualifying and finished 9th, earning her $1,250 in prize money.  Even though she was paid in the sport she competes collegiately in (which you'd think would be an instant NCAA ban), she was actually allowed to accept the money provided that it be used on volleyball-related purchases, so long as she spent it on clothes that you could argue were volleyball related and for her coach's salary it was all fine.  So, as long as you're in a sport that has individual-entry tournament purchases, the NCAA freely looks the other way.

 

*Jeremy Bloom. Ineligible to play NCAA football for accepting skiing, not football, endorsements.

 

*Portland Women's Golf. School reports violation for athlete using school water and a hose to wash her car.

 

*Rick Majerus. Utah gets a violation for Majerus treating Keith Van Horn to breakfast after Van Horn's father died.

 

I'm sorry, but the NCAA can't even figure out what even qualifies as athlete compensation so I sure as hell don't have any sympathy over whatever imposition these laws will bring.

[neo_prankster]

10 minutes ago, LMU said:

So, here's a few examples of the NCAA and its haphazard application of its amateurism-idolization:

 

*My cousin is Kathryn Plummer - 2-time defending National Player of the Year for indoor volleyball at Stanford.  She played both indoor and beach volleyball her first two years.  The summer after her sophomore year she competed as an at-large entrant in the AVP Hermosa Beach Open.  Her and her partner ended up qualifying and finished 9th, earning her $1,250 in prize money.  Even though she was paid in the sport she competes collegiately in, she was actually allowed to accept the money provided that it be used on volleyball-related purchases. So, so long as she spent it on clothes that you could argue were volleyball related and for her coach's salary it was all fine.  So, as long as you're in a sport that has individual-entry tournament purchases, the NCAA freely looks the other way.

 

*Jeremy Bloom. Ineligible to play NCAA football for accepting skiing, not football, endorsements.

 

*Portland Women's Golf. School reports violation for athlete using school water and a hose to wash her car.

 

*Rick Majerus. Utah gets a violation for Majerus treating Keith Van Horn to breakfast after Van Horn's father died.

 

I'm sorry, but the NCAA can't even figure out what even qualifies as athlete compensation so I sure as hell don't have any sympathy over whatever imposition these laws will bring.

 

But to be fair, you could never count on the NCAA to enforce its rules consistently.

 

I will jump for joy once the NCAA goes the way of the dinosaur.

[Gothamite]

12 hours ago, Bucfan56 said:

Just curious, how much money did you generate for your university on your activities outside of the classroom? 

 

I don’t know if it matters, but most athletic departments lose money.  So whatever the athlete generates is more than offset by what the university spends to support and promote that athlete.  Support and promotion that will be essential to his future career, if he is to have one. 

 

Again, don’t know if that matters. I’m just saying that it’s not quite as simple as “players generate revenue”.  Schools and players are locked in a twisted, symbiotic relationship that ultimately does benefit both.

[dfwabel]

 

Kentucky will draft legislation which will mirror SB206.  That's one of their four ratings bell cows for the NCAA Tournament. 

 

Then there's Texas Rep. Jeff Leach (R), who is the Chair of the House Committee on Judiciary & Civil Jurisprudence.

 

[JayMac]

I am totally in favor of this but my only wish was for all 50 states to adopt the same legislation. It looks like I am slowly getting my wish.

[dfwabel]

1 hour ago, jmac11281 said:

I am totally in favor of this but my only wish was for all 50 states to adopt the same legislation. It looks like I am slowly getting my wish.

 

Full text of Walker's bill

[FiddySicks]

4 hours ago, Gothamite said:

 

I don’t know if it matters, but most athletic departments lose money.  So whatever the athlete generates is more than offset by what the university spends to support and promote that athlete.  Support and promotion that will be essential to his future career, if he is to have one. 

 

Again, don’t know if that matters. I’m just saying that it’s not quite as simple as “players generate revenue”.  Schools and players are locked in a twisted, symbiotic relationship that ultimately does benefit both.

 

Ultimately, I don’t think it really matters because even though athletes have the ability to profit off of their own names now, most still won’t. If you’re some random member of the Boise State swim team, there’s a good chance you’re not going to be pulling in any endorsement deals anyway. But if you’re Trevor Lawrence? You’re ABSOLUTELY generating revenue for your university.  

 

Its kind of a limited scope of student athletes that this bill really benefits. That being said? It’s still huge because if you have the ability to make money off of your name, why let some random organization (who wouldn’t be effected anyway) arbitrarily say that you can’t? This is simply correcting a mistake, and keeping the NCAA’s rampant greed in check. 

[MJWalker45]

17 hours ago, dfwabel said:

Nothing like saying you care for the welfare of the "student-athlete" while covering your own a$$ before the money might dry up than seeing Baylor's AD receive a 10-year contract extension.

 

And the Texas Legislature doesn't meet again until January 2021.

Since Baylor's private I don't think they're dealing with some of the same issues of the state needing to sign off like at A&M or Texas.

 

[BBTV]

How do video games work now? Do they use player names or just numbers? In either case, do they have all players on all bcs teams? Maybe you can’t quantify the amount that each contributes to the game, but anyone who’s in it should get some % of it - or allow them to negotiate individually, so Tua or whoever could see just how bad they want him in the game.