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The Spokane Chiefs have a blue alternate, which are the flipped Habs jerseys.

 

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I can't express how angry I would be if the Habs rolled out royal blue sweaters. 

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There's only one route I see the Habs going with a color swap jersey;

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They put waaaaay too much pride on their brand's legacy for it not to just be this. Especially when franchise icons like Maurice and Henri Richard wore these.

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28 minutes ago, Ridleylash said:

There's only one route I see the Habs going with a color swap jersey;

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They put waaaaay too much pride on their brand's legacy for it not to just be this. Especially when franchise icons like Maurice and Henri Richard wore these.

Except they already basically wore that jersey recently with the Winter Classic in 2016

 

cropped_REU_2354970.jpg?ts=1451596244

 

And in 2003-04

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^And that’s a problem because??? It’s still a throwback, and a justified reverse color throwback...

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2 minutes ago, chcarlson23 said:

^And that’s a problem because??? It’s still a throwback, and a justified reverse color throwback...

There's more money in a unique design.

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7 minutes ago, nash61 said:

There's more money in a unique design.

Not to a team as brand-stingy as the Habs, there isn't. They're extremely conservative with their brand, why would they go and do some weird alternate now when they could just use it to throwback to their massively-storied past?

 

Not to mention blue jerseys in Quebec NHL lore is much more of a Quebec City thing. The Habs have spend the vast majority of their existence in the
bleu, blanc et rouge, and I see no reason the team that hasn't touched their base design since the 50's would be all over making a blue alternate when that's historically been both the color of English Canada's most prominent team (the Leafs) and one of their most hated rivals (the Nordiques).

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49 minutes ago, Ridleylash said:

Not to a team as brand-stingy as the Habs, there isn't. They're extremely conservative with their brand, why would they go and do some weird alternate now when they could just use it to throwback to their massively-storied past?

But they did allow this train-wreck to happen.

 

Montreal+Canadiens+100+years3.jpg

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10 minutes ago, nash61 said:

But they did allow this train-wreck to happen.

 

Montreal+Canadiens+100+years3.jpg

That was for the 100th Birthday/Anniversary celebration. A thorough celebration of all periods of a franchise's past is appropriate for such a milestone. It's not like any of those sweaters stuck around after it was over.

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2 hours ago, Ridleylash said:

Not to a team as brand-stingy as the Habs, there isn't. They're extremely conservative with their brand, why would they go and do some weird alternate now when they could just use it to throwback to their massively-storied past?

 

Not to mention blue jerseys in Quebec NHL lore is much more of a Quebec City thing. The Habs have spend the vast majority of their existence in the
bleu, blanc et rouge, and I see no reason the team that hasn't touched their base design since the 50's would be all over making a blue alternate when that's historically been both the color of English Canada's most prominent team (the Leafs) and one of their most hated rivals (the Nordiques).


Just curious (honestly curious, not trying to be facetious with some loose fallacy of cherry-picked logic)...

 

If blue is such sacrilege for the Habs, why is it listed first in “bleu, blanc, et rouge” and why have they always worn blue pants? Why have they always worn blue numbers on their white jerseys? Why have their white chest stripe jerseys always been blue dominant?

 

I get that it’s the Leafs’ look, but it seems to me the mix of red in there differentiates it enough.

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6 minutes ago, andrewharrington said:

If blue is such sacrilege for the Habs, why is it listed first in “bleu, blanc, et rouge” and why have they always worn blue pants? Why have they always worn blue numbers on their white jerseys? Why have their white chest stripe jerseys always been blue dominant?

Why do people describe Team USA's colours as being "red, white, and blue" despite blue being the dominant colour in the vast majority of cases? There are certain phrases that become the "standard" in all languages. You could describe a Team USA sweater as "blue, red, and white" and this would be grammatically correct. It would also come off as weird compared to the less accurate but more widely used "red, white, and blue."
In French? The phrase “bleu, blanc, et rouge” gained traction. That's what people use, but it was never supposed to reflect the actual colour hierarchy. I know you claim you're not trying to cherry pick here, but cards on the table? Using a phrase like this to determine a uniform's colour hierarchy is dumb. Colour hierarchy wasn't considered when the phrase was termed, and you shouldn't use it to retroactively re-order the hierarchy of a 100+ old brand just because there's some new Colour Rush-lite initiative the NHL thinks would be cool.

 

12 minutes ago, andrewharrington said:

I get that it’s the Leafs’ look, but it seems to me the mix of red in there differentiates it enough.

Oh I disagree. The Lightning already ripped off our look because Stevie Y wanted to play O6 before actually playing O6. Now you're suggesting one half of the oldest rivalry in the sport wear sweaters unnecessarily similar to their rivals? Red or no red, it's too close. The Habs should never wear blue sweaters with white stripes. Period.

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7 minutes ago, IceCap said:

Now you're suggesting one half of the oldest rivalry in the sport wear sweaters unnecessarily similar to their rivals? Red or no red, it's too close. The Habs should never wear blue sweaters with white stripes. Period.

Not to mention that by inverting blue and red, you just end up making a sweater that's altogether too close to the Nordiques in terms of color; and if there's one team older Habs fans hated as much as Boston or Toronto, it was their in-province rivals over in Québec City.

 

Inverting white and red brings to mind the days of Maurice Richard and the dominant Habs dynasties of the 50's and 60's, which would be an infinitely easier sell to Habs loyalists then essentially wearing the colors of a mortal foe. It'd be like Pittsburgh wearing Philly's orange and black, essentially.

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1 hour ago, IceCap said:

Why do people describe Team USA's colours as being "red, white, and blue" despite blue being the dominant colour in the vast majority of cases? There are certain phrases that become the "standard" in all languages. You could describe a Team USA sweater as "blue, red, and white" and this would be grammatically correct. It would also come off as weird compared to the less accurate but more widely used "red, white, and blue."
In French? The phrase “bleu, blanc, et rouge” gained traction. That's what people use, but it was never supposed to reflect the actual colour hierarchy. I know you claim you're not trying to cherry pick here, but cards on the table? Using a phrase like this to determine a uniform's colour hierarchy is dumb. Colour hierarchy wasn't considered when the phrase was termed, and you shouldn't use it to retroactively re-order the hierarchy of a 100+ old brand just because there's some new Colour Rush-lite initiative the NHL thinks would be cool.

 

Oh I disagree. The Lightning already ripped off our look because Stevie Y wanted to play O6 before actually playing O6. Now you're suggesting one half of the oldest rivalry in the sport wear sweaters unnecessarily similar to their rivals? Red or no red, it's too close. The Habs should never wear blue sweaters with white stripes. Period.


Nowhere did I say that I think they should wear blue, nor did I say that their color hierarchy should adhere to the “bleu/blanc/rouge” phrase or that the color hierarchy of a 100-year old brand should change for no reason. I asked a couple questions that don’t appear on the surface to support the notion that red is their only option because I want to better understand the situation.

 

If “bleu/blanc/rouge” is a thing because that’s the sequence of the French flag (seems obvious now that I see it), then just say that. If there’s a reason that blue is a huge part of their identity (helmets, pants, numbers, old uniforms that featured way more blue than red) but they can’t wear it as a jersey color, then just say why you think that. There’s no need to be presumptive of someone else’s opinions or defensive of your own when the other party is simply asking questions and trying, in good faith, to educate oneself.

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1 hour ago, andrewharrington said:

Nowhere did I say that I think they should wear blue, nor did I say that their color hierarchy should adhere to the “bleu/blanc/rouge” phrase or that the color hierarchy of a 100-year old brand should change for no reason. I asked a couple questions that don’t appear on the surface to support the notion that red is their only option because I want to better understand the situation.

 

If “bleu/blanc/rouge” is a thing because that’s the sequence of the French flag (seems obvious now that I see it), then just say that. If there’s a reason that blue is a huge part of their identity (helmets, pants, numbers, old uniforms that featured way more blue than red) but they can’t wear it as a jersey color, then just say why you think that. There’s no need to be presumptive of someone else’s opinions or defensive of your own when the other party is simply asking questions and trying, in good faith, to educate oneself.

I would say that blue is a no-go for a Habs sweater base because 1) they've worn red primaries consistently for over a hundred years and 2) because their oldest rival wears blue sweaters. As for the italicized text? I KNOW you know both of those pieces of information 🙂

 

Again, the phrase "bleu, blanc, et rouge" refers to the Montreal Canadiens in the same way the phrase "red, white, and blue" refers to Team USA. It's just a phrase, and it's not meant to be taken as a literal colour hierarchy. Maybe it refers to the French tricolour, maybe whatever French Canadien newspaper writer who coined the phrase just thought the colours sounded or read better in that order. I donno. 

 

As for better understanding the situation...you work for the company that manufactures and helps design NHL uniforms. I don't expect you to be a walking historian on the sport or every team, but "not dressing the oldest team in the league up in the same colour as their oldest rival" seems like a no-brainer. I don't have a fraction of the talent you have for this sort of stuff, but if I somehow stumbled my way onto Nike's MLB team? Well I think I'd know enough not to suggest the Yankees start putting red text outlined in navy on an alternate.

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1 hour ago, IceCap said:

I would say that blue is a no-go for a Habs sweater base because 1) they've worn red primaries consistently for over a hundred years and 2) because their oldest rival wears blue sweaters. As for the italicized text? I KNOW you know both of those pieces of information 🙂

 

Again, the phrase "bleu, blanc, et rouge" refers to the Montreal Canadiens in the same way the phrase "red, white, and blue" refers to Team USA. It's just a phrase, and it's not meant to be taken as a literal colour hierarchy. Maybe it refers to the French tricolour, maybe whatever French Canadien newspaper writer who coined the phrase just thought the colours sounded or read better in that order. I donno. 

 

As for better understanding the situation...you work for the company that manufactures and helps design NHL uniforms. I don't expect you to be a walking historian on the sport or every team, but "not dressing the oldest team in the league up in the same colour as their oldest rival" seems like a no-brainer. I don't have a fraction of the talent you have for this sort of stuff, but if I somehow stumbled my way onto Nike's MLB team? Well I think I'd know enough not to suggest the Yankees start putting red text outlined in navy on an alternate.


Well, yes, that’s a very “no-brainer” conclusion (and obviously, that’s the first point I would make to argue against the idea, being a historian of the game and a brand enthusiast and such), but that doesn’t mean the question can’t or shouldn’t be asked. Anything is a no-brainer if we never think about it. 🙂

 

It’s interesting to me that their uniforms are 40-45% blue, yet they can’t wear that color because their main rival wears it. Quirks like that fascinate me, and while I *know* why they don’t wear blue jerseys, that’s also why I want to know more. I love discussing those grey areas, and I value the real opinions and knowledge we bring to this forum because they’re worth much more than assumptions. I’ve gotten pretty good at understanding how people and teams think about design, but I still get surprised sometimes, which is why I communicate here rather than in an echo chamber of designers whenever possible.

 

Long story short, no one appreciates being talked to like they’re an idiot who should know better simply for asking questions and trying to initiate productive discussion.

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I think the Habs are too conservative with their brand.  Obviously the home and roads should never change but I would much prefer seeing something new for an alternate over an Adidas version of the white throwback.  The Winter Classic jersey used a lighter blue (almost electric) and it was a perfect example of how you can break new ground while still honoring the rich tradition of the team.

I'd like to see a red alternate with that lighter blue and enough subtle changes to striping to set it apart from the untouchable home.

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3 minutes ago, andrewharrington said:

Well, yes, that’s a very “no-brainer” conclusion (and obviously, that’s the first point I would make to argue against the idea, being a historian of the game and a brand enthusiast and such), but that doesn’t mean the question can’t or shouldn’t be asked. Anything is a no-brainer if we never think about it. 🙂

It just seems silly to me to "re-litigate" why the Canadiens are a red team and why the Maple Leafs are a blue team. We're a century in. Yes, questions are good but at a certain point? The Habs are red, the Leafs are blue, and the Wings are Satan's team and these things are known 😛

 

7 minutes ago, andrewharrington said:

It’s interesting to me that their uniforms are 40-45% blue, yet they can’t wear that color because their main rival wears it. Quirks like that fascinate me, and while I *know* why they don’t wear blue jerseys, that’s also why I want to know more.

There are odd parallels with the Yankees/Red Sox. The Canadiens wear a lot of blue but, aside from their original sweaters, have never worn blue primaries. The Yankees are named after a patriotic slang-term for "Americans" and even feature a red-dominant primary logo. Yet they, aside from a few super early uniforms, have never worn red. The Habs' oldest rival, incidentally, wears blue and white. And the Yankees' oldest rival wears a lot of red.

The Canadiens could have probably established a blue-dominant look of their own that we'd all accept as a totally find part of their brand had they done something when the Leafs were in their seven year St. Pats phase, but they didn't.

 

Quebec City also has to be considered. Blue is a very prominent French Canadien colour (referencing the blue banners of royalist France, who colonized Quebec) but within the realm of sports? It was always associated with Quebec City's teams specifically. So Montreal, stuck between blue in QC and blue in Toronto, probably opted for red as a way to forge their own identity.

The Habs aren't alone in this either. The Als have worn red primaries more often than not, McGill University (the most prestigious school in the city) wears red, and both the Wanderers and Maroons opted for shades of red. We can go deeper down this rabbit hole too. To the red-dominant Montreal Roadrunners of Roller Hockey International to the Maroons-coloured Montreal Machine of the WLAF. Not every Montreal team has opted for red, of course, but it does seem to be something of a trend for the city. Even the flags of Toronto and Montreal play into this. With Toronto's blue field and the prominent red cross on Montreal's. The city logos even get in on it.

Honestly? It probably comes down to the University of Toronto and University of McGill. U of T's blue and white colour scheme is the reason those became Toronto's "sporting colours." It wouldn't surprise me if McGill's red-dominant identity cast the dye for the city in the same way.

 

36 minutes ago, andrewharrington said:

Long story short, no one appreciates being talked to like they’re an idiot who should know better simply for asking questions and trying to initiate productive discussion.

I mean I said I would be angry if the Habs went with a royal blue sweater with white stripes. And that was in the context of being a fan of their rivals who wear royal blue sweaters with white stripes. I'm not even happy about the Lightning using that scheme. That's obviously "sports hate" though. I'm going to burn down the Bell Centre if the Habs roll out a blue sweater (the Canadiens faithful will do that for me :devil: ).

 

Any genuine hostility you felt from me on the matter was more my frustration with, as I said above, re-litigating things we all know. It's not just sports uniforms. The trend pops in general sports discussion all the time, whenever someone tried to impress us all with their "Wayne Gretzky/Michael Jordan were Actually Bad" hot takes. And it's like...no. Some things are pretty straightforward, ya know?

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It'd be interesting to see what a red version of the current away jerseys would look like. I think that'd make a much better alternate than any blue jersey.

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Or how about swapping red and blue on the white vintage jersey?

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I don't see how the occasional use of alternate sweater that utilizes the exact same colour scheme/pattern you've always worn damages the brand that badly, but people complain about sillier things. 

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