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2020-2021 NHL Changes

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30 minutes ago, schlim said:

My business and only source of income survived a 65% drop in revenue this year and I made it through the year without a corporate or government bailout, tax dodges or other accounting tricks, and I still don't wear a hat that says 'COMCAST' on both sides of it. I'm also not complaining about it and am vaguely proud of surviving the harsh economic climate, the withered customer base, lack of sales opportunities and the bitchy complaints of the Holy Maskless Protectors of the Constitution. I'm also not a billionaire, millionaire, or anything close. But hey, 2021 is almost here, so let's concentrate on that.

 

As someone who’s middle class and uses all the legal accounting deductions that apply... if I had a 65% drop in income and Comcast offered me $500,000 to wear a 1” x 1” patch on my shirt or hat for a few months I’d probably say yes tbh. 

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I love how many people keep posting things like "They're doing this to make up for the losses from last season. Don't you know how businesses work? They're a business trying to make money, they don't care about aesthetics." despite nobody disagreeing, and as if absolutely anyone in this thread doesn't know those things. We're on a uniform aesthetics board complaining about ruined uniform aesthetics, we don't need a Business 101 course like we're delusional and don't know that rich people running a corporation want to make more money

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1 minute ago, ManillaToad said:

They're a business trying to make money, they don't care about aesthetics.

Also despite a few of us explaining, while trying to avoid seeping into direct political talk as much as possible, that this is exactly the problem in the first place.

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2 minutes ago, ManillaToad said:

We're on a uniform aesthetics board complaining about ruined uniform aesthetics, we don't need a Business 101 course like we're delusional and don't know that rich people running a corporation want to make more money

 

All I learned in Bidness 1$1 is that you have to give respect to get respect. That's called The Economy Of Respect.

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14 hours ago, NYRFan said:

C'mon, bro. We Gotham-ites gotta stick together.

 

Someone ask Mr. Creamer if he's going to turn down ad money. I visit this very site on my mobile device and had to scroll past ads for NHL shop, Bet MGM, an eyeglasses company, and something for the Oculus to read articles on a message board about how sports teams shouldn't let advertising get in the way of the product. This is true irony. 

 

I bet your senses have been dulled to all the ads around you. Same as mine.

 

funny you should mention Chris, because he used to have these ads that took over the entire screen before setting into a border pattern around the site. 
 

Why did he change his mind and start turning those down? Because we users complained. 
 

Now, their mistake was probably in trying to do too much too quickly.  Had Chris and the ad company slowly introduced those ads in four or five steps over a couple years, instead of in one fell jarring swoop, we would likely have accepted them. Those of us who did complain would have been told that each step “isn’t so bad, it’s just business.” 

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I think it goes deeper than just trying to recoup losses from last season.  The NHL is as far as I know the only one of the major North American sports leagues that keeps at least 10% (this year 20%) of the player salaries in escrow until the final annual revenue number comes in just in case the projected revenue wasn't met.  It looks to me that the owners are using helmet ads ad one shot revenue to fill a hole which would be indicative of greater structural issues.  Would be nice if the NHL could get away from being as reliant on gate driven revenue as they are and work to really explore ways to better market the game, players, and league using the NFL and NBA as examples.  

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For years threads have been made on this board about the inevitability of ads on uniforms. No one should be surprised by this. Being upset about it is understandable and 100% of users on here wish it weren't happening. The only real way fans have a chance of being heard of getting them removed is protest and boycott.

 

Unfortunately for this board, sports consumers have shown a willingness to concede ground and put up with advertisers and owners. It's a giant poker game and they're willing to leverage fans. They've proven it time and again, even at their own detriment.

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16 hours ago, NYRFan said:

Brand equity is essentially the value your brand has in name alone, its cachet, its perception by the public.

 

The NHL/your favorite team's brand is seriously NOT damaged by allowing the namesake company of a building get a couple of stickers on a helmet. 

 

If advertising on a uniform hurt brand equity, why is European soccer more popular than the NHL? Without looking, I'm guessing European soccer teams like Manchester United crush most NHL teams in terms of brand awareness.

 

Now if your brand starts becoming synonymous with something distasteful or outdated, now you're talking. This is how we get to the Cleveland MLB saga. There's a legitimate argument to be made that their name hurt their brand and their value. Of course, this vicious interwoven cycle of sports and business rears its head again. 

 

Why is Cleveland going to change names? Their brand equity is taking a hit. What does that mean? Well, with a newer name and image, they can expand their footprint and, wait for it, make more money. 


You really think an independent business owner who provides his product/content and platform at no cost to the user and funds its operation with an automatically-generated ad server is an apples-to-apples comparison to a multi-billion dollar league kicking the uni ad snowball down the hill because it’s not making its usual profit?

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2 hours ago, tp49 said:

I think it goes deeper than just trying to recoup losses from last season.  The NHL is as far as I know the only one of the major North American sports leagues that keeps at least 10% (this year 20%) of the player salaries in escrow until the final annual revenue number comes in just in case the projected revenue wasn't met.  It looks to me that the owners are using helmet ads ad one shot revenue to fill a hole which would be indicative of greater structural issues.  Would be nice if the NHL could get away from being as reliant on gate driven revenue as they are and work to really explore ways to better market the game, players, and league using the NFL and NBA as examples.  

 

The NBA holds back 10% as well.  Players usually get that money back, though.  It will be 17% for the next couple of years. 

 

Even if the NHL markets itself and the players better, it will never reach the heights of the other leagues.  It will always be gate driven, unless you want to really open the flood gates on the ads like some people seem to be really worried about.  Unfortunately, hockey will always just be a niche sport and doesn't have the same appeal that the NFL or NBA has.  Consider each NFL team gets more in TV revenue then the NHL as a whole from its NBC deal each year.

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4 hours ago, andrewharrington said:


You really think an independent business owner who provides his product/content and platform at no cost to the user and funds its operation with an automatically-generated ad server is an apples-to-apples comparison to a multi-billion dollar league kicking the uni ad snowball down the hill because it’s not making its usual profit?

No, I don't, but that apples-to-apples comparison was never made.

 

All I said is scrolling past ads on this very site to talk about advertising tarnishing brands is kind of ironic, no? 

 

I'm also just guessing (dunno) that as this site has grown, it brings in more ad revenue, and there hasn't been an inverse relationship of increased advertising to a drop in brand image or product quality. Yes, I understand one is a website and one is a helmet. Got it!

 

Guys, I know we live in a hot-take culture where people who have contrary opinions must be made examples of, but we just have to do better as a group. I respect your opinions. I ask  that you respect mine. I need to be able to talk about other topics freely in my posts to continue the discussion. Not everything brought up by me or anyone serves as a direct comparison. It's just a casual conversation,  and I'm steering in a variety of different directions to make this an interesting back-and-forth. 

 

Responses to my posts have somehow misconstrued me as an advertising-at-all-costs guy who is far too daft to understand the difference between a website and a major 4 sports league as well as a global and regional game. 

 

I'll just wait until the discussion returns to actual hockey news; carry on! 😊 

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24 minutes ago, NYRFan said:

No, I don't, but that apples-to-apples comparison was never made.

 

All I said is scrolling past ads on this very site to talk about advertising tarnishing brands is kind of ironic, no? 

 

I'm also just guessing (dunno) that as this site has grown, it brings in more ad revenue, and there hasn't been an inverse relationship of increased advertising to a drop in brand image or product quality. Yes, I understand one is a website and one is a helmet. Got it!

 

Guys, I know we live in a hot-take culture where people who have contrary opinions must be made examples of, but we just have to do better as a group. I respect your opinions. I ask  that you respect mine. I need to be able to talk about other topics freely in my posts to continue the discussion. Not everything brought up by me or anyone serves as a direct comparison. It's just a casual conversation,  and I'm steering in a variety of different directions to make this an interesting back-and-forth. 

 

Responses to my posts have somehow misconstrued me as an advertising-at-all-costs guy who is far too daft to understand the difference between a website and a major 4 sports league as well as a global and regional game. 

 

I'll just wait until the discussion returns to actual hockey news; carry on! 😊 

Social media is largely a platform for the game of debate. Unfortunately debating is about winning and much less about the free exchange of ideas without judgement or projected preconceptions. Our tribal nature makes this worse because natural alliances form and it can turn into us vs them real quick. Human nature is real quirky and we're our own worst enemy most of the time.

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5 minutes ago, O.C.D said:

Social media is largely a platform for the game of debate. Unfortunately debating is about winning and much less about the free exchange of ideas without judgement or projected preconceptions. Our tribal nature makes this worse because natural alliances form and it can turn into us vs them real quick. Human nature is real quirky and we're our own worst enemy most of the time.

Well said, amigo.

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20 hours ago, philly97flyer said:

I don’t “support” ads on helmets, but I absolutely understand why they’re doing it. The league is facing most likely nearly a whole season without fans in the stands in the majority of their buildings. They need to find revenue to pay their players, coaches, front office, and a whole host of regular people on their staffs that aren’t making millions. Despite what socialists on the internet think, owners don’t have a bottomless pit of money they can just draw from to pay their employees. Cash flow has to come from somewhere. You don’t have to like capitalism, but it makes the world go round. That’s just reality.

 

edit: Do you think I like coming on here and navigating through 5 ads just to read a message board? No, especially when I have to find the little ‘x’ to close them all out. But I understand why Chris does it, and I’d be doing the same exact thing if it was my board.

Alright, I'm a socialist because I don't like blatant greed. Good one. Based on assumptions like that, what does that make you? Yes, they do have a bottomless pit of money, they're literally billionaires, are you trying to make me feel bad that everybody right now is struggling but we should excuse greed from the people who are by far the least likely to suffer monetarily from the pandemic? Revenues have been increasing every year for what, 2 decades now? Have you already forgotten about the 2 expansion team fees? ($500M for Vegas and now $650M for Seattle). No amount of mental gymnastics on your part will make me believe the owners aren't just being greedy, cause they are. Objectively. They added new ads on the boards and behind the nets in the last few years and now they're thinking about adding a strip of ads on the glass around the rink. They could have used the tarps that cover the empty seats to display more ugly ads, but no, they had to use the player helmets. They keep making record profits, I don't feel bad for them. About the ads on this forum, again, apples to oranges, why am I not surprised? Chris isn't a billionaire, he's just trying to keep this free-to-use place alive

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8 hours ago, NYRFan said:

No, I don't, but that apples-to-apples comparison was never made.

 

All I said is scrolling past ads on this very site to talk about advertising tarnishing brands is kind of ironic, no? 

 

I'm also just guessing (dunno) that as this site has grown, it brings in more ad revenue, and there hasn't been an inverse relationship of increased advertising to a drop in brand image or product quality. Yes, I understand one is a website and one is a helmet. Got it!

 

Guys, I know we live in a hot-take culture where people who have contrary opinions must be made examples of, but we just have to do better as a group. I respect your opinions. I ask  that you respect mine. I need to be able to talk about other topics freely in my posts to continue the discussion. Not everything brought up by me or anyone serves as a direct comparison. It's just a casual conversation,  and I'm steering in a variety of different directions to make this an interesting back-and-forth. 

 

Responses to my posts have somehow misconstrued me as an advertising-at-all-costs guy who is far too daft to understand the difference between a website and a major 4 sports league as well as a global and regional game. 

 

I'll just wait until the discussion returns to actual hockey news; carry on! 😊 


Honestly, I’m not sure if anyone knows what your actual point is, but please don’t try to tell me you didn’t make a comparison that you unquestionably did.

 

“Someone ask Mr. Creamer if he's going to turn down ad money. I visit this very site on my mobile device and had to scroll past ads for NHL shop, Bet MGM, an eyeglasses company, and something for the Oculus to read articles on a message board about how sports teams shouldn't let advertising get in the way of the product. This is true irony.”

 

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57 minutes ago, AFirestormToPurify said:

Yes, they do have a bottomless pit of money, they're literally billionaires, are you trying to make me feel bad that everybody right now is struggling but we should excuse greed from the people who are by far the least likely to suffer monetarily from the pandemic? Revenues have been increasing every year for what, 2 decades now? Have you already forgotten about the 2 expansion team fees? ($500M for Vegas and now $650M for Seattle).

Team values have all declined for the first time since 2001, league revenue was 14% less then 2019-20, and operating income is down 68% from previous years (all Forbes estimates, but it gives a general idea of how the league's finances are).

 

The only teams out of the 31 in the league at a 0% loss according to those estimates are the Rangers, Leafs, Habs, Hawks and Bruins; notably, all of them are teams with very lucrative local TV deals. Every other team's values dropped, from Original 6 powerhouse Detroit to relocation magnet Florida. That kinda thing is going to be concerning to the board, and they'll want to have means of cushioning the impact for everybody.

 

Those expansion fees can only help so much when the league's continually being hit from all angles. It's why you saw Dallas holding limited-attendance watch parties for the Finals, and why you'll see some teams have limited attendance to games this season. Gate is a huge deal for the NHL in comparison to other leagues, so losing it affects the league's financials more.

 

If you and most of the other owners are spending that money on trying to keep your heads above water, it's not like those will be magical safety nets that solve the problem. Most teams aren't making money right now; the Isles, for example, are listed by Forbes as having an operating income of -$37.9 million. The Panthers are listed with an operating income of –$28.9 million

 

Now either way you slice it, not many people would be happy about losing anywhere close to that much money. These people didn't get their wealth by being frivolous spenders who don't care about losing money; if they can find ways to recoup the costs, they'll do it for the health of the collective league.

 

Economically, helmet ads benefit the whole league from top to bottom. In a time where the economy as a whole is wrecked and fan attendance is limited to hell if even allowed, taking a nuclear option is kinda what they have to do as a collective group to make money. Sure it looks kinda ugly, but at the end of the day none of them care about a helmet ad ruining "the aesthetic" if it keeps everybody afloat for as long as possible.

 

Just because we're a sports logo discussion board does not mean we should discount the business and economic sides of things when they don't suit our desires and just chalk it up to "greedy owners ruining everything".

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20 minutes ago, Ridleylash said:

In a time where the economy as a whole is wrecked and fan attendance is limited to hell if even allowed, taking a nuclear option is kinda what they have to do as a collective group to make money.


So then naturally, when fans return and revenues are back up to 2018 levels, the owners will naturally stop selling helmet ads.

 

Because if not, then “but pandemic!” is a red herring. 

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This is a wait and see situation.

 

IF the helmet ads are for this season and this season only, okay I get it and I'm good with it. Even a bit next season, depending on how public health looks.

 

But if they stay next year, then i'll complain.

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10 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

So then naturally, when fans return and revenues are back up to 2018 levels, the owners will naturally stop selling helmet ads.

 

Because if not, then “but pandemic!” is a red herring. 

The NHL is entirely framing this as teams giving pre-existing sponsors an additional means of revenue for the season to make up for the lack of fans, so I'd be surprised if this wasn't a measure to appease the sponsors of teams in a world where fans may not be allowed in buildings for most of the season that disappears once things return to normal.

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We shall see.  I have precious little faith that they’ll discard a revenue stream once they (and the fans) get used to it.

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