MJWalker45 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 minute ago, infrared41 said: Oh please. I lost the same team you did. Adjusting to not having an NFL team is a helluva lot easier than people think it is. Honestly? It was kind of liberating. Those were my feelings, not going to tell you that everyone needed to feel the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infrared41 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said: Those were my feelings, not going to tell you that everyone needed to feel the same. They didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormerLurker Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Good Lord I came in here expecting there to have been a leak, what even has this conversation been? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJWalker45 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 6 minutes ago, FormerLurker said: Good Lord I came in here expecting there to have been a leak, what even has this conversation been? Leaks will probably be happening around mid-March. Unless they have as good security on these as the Jets did last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O.C.D Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, FormerLurker said: Good Lord I came in here expecting there to have been a leak, what even has this conversation been? lol same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormerLurker Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 11 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said: Leaks will probably be happening around mid-March. Unless they have as good security on these as the Jets did last year. I’m well aware, but this topic is currently trending hot because people are having the same talks that happened in 1995. It’s obnoxious. Only reason a thread about Browns unis should be hot is if there is new news on said unis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Akronite- Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 21 minutes ago, infrared41 said: Exactly. The majority of Browns fans put all the blame for the move on Modell. Anyone that knows anything about the situation knows that the City of Cleveland botched the whole thing from the start. The Indians were drawing about 35 people a game, the Cavs were playing in the middle of a field out in the middle of nowhere, and the 3-13 Browns were still drawing 70,000+ a game. So which team does Cleveland shove to the back of the line in the Gateway project? The Browns. What makes it even worse is that about five minutes after the Browns move was announced, Cleveland suddenly had all the money it needed to build a new football stadium. Say what you want about Modell, and he certainly played a role, but I can't blame the guy for being pissed off about the whole thing. Yeah, he took is ball and went home, but can you really blame him? He shouldn't have needed to ask for a new stadium. A smart, hell, a merely competent city government would have gone to Modell first. It's still on Modell. I suppose I can't blame him for the dumb system we have in America with pro sports, where we subsidize massive public projects mostly for the benefit of a billionaire owner who slaps some advertising on the venue and charges way too much for good measure. I mean hey, it's business/capitalism. But Modell was able to use leverage for a new stadium and how much longer would it have taken compared to moving to Baltimore? Didn't care enough about the city or the franchise to keep it where it belonged. Ultimately, it will always be on him. The Indians and Cavs both still exist in Cleveland and have had more success than the Browns. And hey, Cleveland has the Browns too. So I guess it wasn't played that poorly, because at multiple points in time Cleveland could've lost its baseball or basketball team, and likely without the rights they demanded from the NFL. For the record, I'm never going to side with some rich :censored: that wants to move a team. Don't like where a team is? Don't buy it. There are plenty of :censored:ty Browns fans out there, but @Ice_Cap seems to have invented some form of Browns backer that has no sympathy for other fan bases that lost teams and explicitly states that they had it worse. For those cases, and hell there's gotta be a couple, I agree with him that they are in the wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewharrington Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 29 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said: As long as the record books don’t change, it’s fine. No one changed any record books. The NFL simply opened a new record book for a new team in Baltimore. The Browns then continued recording in their record book when they began playing again. This is black and white, and pretending it’s not is hypocritical if you’re going to deride people for the opinion that records should remain with the city (even if, in reality, they do not). The factual reality of *this* situation is that every stat recorded by a player wearing a Browns uniform belongs to the Browns, and every stat recorded by a player wearing a Ravens uniform belongs to the Ravens. End of story. If anything, I’d argue that letting the Ravens have the Browns’ records would have been more akin to “changing” the record books because Otto Graham, Jim Brown, Brian Sipe, etc. never played a down for the Baltimore Ravens. 24 minutes ago, infrared41 said: 1. Something can't be "more unique." Unique means one of a kind. Saying "more unique" is the same thing as saying "that's more one of a kind." Something is either unique or it isn't. 2. We already have color schemes, logos, helmets, merchandise, etc., do we really need the numbers to be part of a team brand? I say no. 3. Because it's pointless and outside designers, no gives a flying ? 4. On that we agree. You could lead the movement to stop this number nonsense. With great power comes great responsibility to keep numbers normal...or something like that. 5. (funnily enough) Having just compared a Packers 5 to an old Browns 5, a Raiders 5, and a 49ers 5, my reaction would be "wow, I never even noticed that." And I'm a longtime member of this place. Point being, I don't think Packers fans would take to the streets over it - provided they even noticed. 1. Semantics. Unique is also defined by M-W as “distinctively characteristic [of the specific subject]” and “able to be distinguished from all others of its class or type.” 2. If we’re going to take it to that extreme, we don’t *need* any of that stuff. It’s just more fun and and enjoyable than plain white v. plain black games. Type is as much a part of identity as colors, logos, helmets, merchandise, etc. 3. Fair enough, but again, why even try at all if design only matters to designers? 4. I prefer to lead the movement by creating good custom numbers, not by sweeping the challenge under the rug and saying “no one cares about this; generic and forgettable is good enough.” Block numbers have a place. That doesn’t mean they’re the best choice for *every* place. 5. I don’t know what to tell you. Maybe ask the people who do notice how they would feel about it, because I assure you it would be a big deal for how inconsequential of a change it is. I still don't have a website, but I have a dribbble now! http://dribbble.com/andyharry [The postings on this site are my own and do not necessarily represent the position, strategy or opinions of adidas and/or its brands.] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Akronite- Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 The other day I Googled some NBA standings from the mid-aughts. They used the modern logos for the franchises that played then (Brooklyn Nets instead of New Jersey, Pelicans instead of Hornets, etc.). So really, the standings aren't accurate any more, as those weren't the teams that played, but you wouldn't expect Google to have historic logos set up for old standings. But the way it made me feel (confused, wrong) definitely tracks with how I don't share the franchise over city mindset. Anyway, I heard that the Browns are taking a traditional turn with their new unis. Sounds good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CS85 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Quote "You are nothing more than a small cancer on this message board. You are not entertaining, you are a complete joke." twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFGiants58 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 13 minutes ago, andrewharrington said: No one changed any record books. The NFL simply opened a new record book for a new team in Baltimore. The Browns then continued recording in their record book when they began playing again. That was a unique situation that shouldn’t have happened. 13 minutes ago, andrewharrington said: This is black and white, and pretending it’s not is hypocritical if you’re going to deride people for the opinion that records should remain with the city (even if, in reality, they do not). The factual reality of *this* situation is that every stat recorded by a player wearing a Browns uniform belongs to the Browns, and every stat recorded by a player wearing a Ravens uniform belongs to the Ravens. End of story. The factual reality is that a deal was arranged, giving Cleveland a treatment that wasn’t afforded to any team prior. It set a precedent for screwing about like the Hornets/Pelicans/Bobcats did. It is factual to explain this special arrangement. Also, one can point out why it was a bad idea. 13 minutes ago, andrewharrington said: If anything, I’d argue that letting the Ravens have the Browns’ records would have been more akin to “changing” the record books because Otto Graham, Jim Brown, Brian Sipe, etc. never played a down for the Baltimore Ravens. That’s the most backwards statement here. Should the LA Dodgers not honor their Brooklyn players? Should the Lakers pretend George Mikan never existed? Is it awful for the Avs to skate around as the Nordiques in warm-ups? Would it be better if the Hurricanes ignored the Whalers (sadly, it’s their best-looking outfit)? Franchise continuity isn’t popular with you, I take it. MLB: Project 32 (Complete), MLB: The Defunct Saga (Complete) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCap Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 35 minutes ago, -Akronite- said: For the record, I'm never going to side with some rich that wants to move a team. Don't like where a team is? Don't buy it. There are plenty of :censored:ty Browns fans out there, but @Ice_Cap seems to have invented some form of Browns backer that has no sympathy for other fan bases that lost teams and explicitly states that they had it worse. For those cases, and hell there's gotta be a couple, I agree with him that they are in the wrong. I said Browns fans who view the original team's relocation to Baltimore as this great tragedy need to get over themselves, as it was a soft landing for them compared to other cases of relocation. Nothing more, nothing less. PotD 26/2/12 1/7/15 2020 BASS Spin the Wheel, Make the Deal Regular Season Champion 2021 BASS NFL Pick'em Regular Season Champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavybass Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Good lord I was expecting the uniform to have leaked with the way this got popular... kind of the whole point is to us to look at it and judge whether its quality or :censored:. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJWalker45 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said: The factual reality is that a deal was arranged, giving Cleveland a treatment that wasn’t afforded to any team prior. It set a precedent for screwing about like the Hornets/Pelicans/Bobcats did. It is factual to explain this special arrangement. Also, one can point out why it was a bad idea. I wouldn't assign this to the Browns, I'd put this on the NBA alone. The renaming of the Bobcats was more in line with the idea of MLB teams taking the name of MiLB teams that used to play there. The only difference was that the Hornets name became available because the New Orleans hornets became the Pelicans. The NBA then took the step of moving the Hornets records back to Charlotte rather than treating them as a new franchise. There are similarities, but they apply to other decisions besides the NFL's choice to retain Cleveland's history in Cleveland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infrared41 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 OK, folks, i'm as guilty as anyone for leading this thread astray, but it's time to do some course correction. The Browns move, who is to blame, the debate over the history, etc., has been beaten to death for...well...as long as I've been a member here. We haven't come to a conclusion in the other eleventy-billion threads on the subject. My guess is we won't get there in this thread either. Let's get back to the topic at hand; how Nike is going to totally up the new Browns uniforms. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCap Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 44 minutes ago, FormerLurker said: I’m well aware, but this topic is currently trending hot because people are having the same talks that happened in 1995. It’s obnoxious. Only reason a thread about Browns unis should be hot is if there is new news on said unis. Gonna disagree. Right now we know two things... 1) The Browns will have new uniforms 2) They will be "traditional." To what extent? Who knows. Beyond that? There's nothing to discuss uniform wise. So short of a leak? The conversation, from now until the unveiling, will drift. It's natural. Also? Please don't backseat moderate. PotD 26/2/12 1/7/15 2020 BASS Spin the Wheel, Make the Deal Regular Season Champion 2021 BASS NFL Pick'em Regular Season Champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infrared41 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 38 minutes ago, andrewharrington said: 1. Semantics. Unique is also defined by M-W as “distinctively characteristic [of the specific subject]” and “able to be distinguished from all others of its class or type.” In other words, one of a kind. As I said before, "more unique" may as well be "more one of a kind." I'm not budging on this and you're straight up wrong so let's drop it. OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infrared41 Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 46 minutes ago, FormerLurker said: I’m well aware, but this topic is currently trending hot because people are having the same talks that happened in 1995. It’s obnoxious. Only reason a thread about Browns unis should be hot is if there is new news on said unis. You've got 70 posts. You have no idea what obnoxious is around here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceCap Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 41 minutes ago, andrewharrington said: The NFL simply opened a new record book for a new team in Baltimore. The Browns then continued recording in their record book when they began playing again. The NFL was positively Orwellian with how it treated the record books, with it only seeming ok in the context of the cluster that was the NBA's handling of the Hornets/Pelicans/Bobcats fiasco. The fact is the team that was the original Browns moved to Baltimore and changed their name and uniforms. That Cleveland got the NFL to go along with the fantasy that the '99 team was the same organization that left is one reason I roll my eyes at Browns fans who act like the Cleveland to Baltimore move was this great crime. They got more than any other fanbase ever got in comparative situations. PotD 26/2/12 1/7/15 2020 BASS Spin the Wheel, Make the Deal Regular Season Champion 2021 BASS NFL Pick'em Regular Season Champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnPheitseog Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 Is it possible to Cleve-jack a thread about the browns ? i think we just did. Formerly known as DiePerske Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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