2020 College Football

[Red Wolf]

15 minutes ago, See Red said:

 

Florida doesn't need to, though -- Florida is near the top of SOS rankings in any given year and all but guaranteed to play at least one top ten team if they're in consideration for a playoff spot and typically plays more than one.  Florida has played an annual out-of-conference game with one of the most successful college football programs over the last three decades (outside of their recent slide) and conference games against LSU and Georgia.  UCF is in no such position.  They complain that top teams won't schedule them and then refuse to do it on the terms offered while USF does.  It's better for their brand to complain that they're being excluded than it is to actually go out and prove they belong because they'll lose to Florida and kill the illusion -- or maybe they don't and they live long enough to get molly-whopped by Alabama in a game where both teams are similarly motivated.

 

UCF knows how it is... they recruit the scraps that are left by the big three and all of the other P5 programs that come into Florida.  So what?  Did Scott Frost have some insane player development and game management skills he forgot to pack away when he left for Nebraska?  Of course not.  They just need to keep up appearances until the Big XII decides they want to expand into Florida and looks their way.

UCF not scheduling out of conference games like a scrub doesn't make them seem as much like a scrub as you seem to think it does. Why should UCF be forced to schedule the way others tell them to? Because the big boys want them to do so? This is a phony argument and you know it.

[See Red]

3 minutes ago, Red Wolf said:

UCF not scheduling out of conference games like a scrub doesn't make them seem as much like a scrub as you seem to think it does. Why should UCF be forced to schedule the way others tell them to? Because the big boys want them to do so? This is a phony argument and you know it.

 

USF, the team scheduling series' or games against Florida, Miami, Notre Dame, and Alabama, isn't the one scheduling like a scrub.  UCF can give up one road game for a chance to get the respect they feel they don't get and they refuse.  Turning down a 2-for-1 against Florida so you can schedule a 1-for-1 with FIU is scheduling like a scrub.  Even the AAC commissioner agrees with that.

[MJWalker45]

1 hour ago, See Red said:

 

I'm saying they shouldn't agree to it because it opens the door for a lesser team getting in entirely because their conference or division is bad.

 

 

Isn't that just enforced when you say a 9-win USC gets in just because they won the Pac 12, which is usually good even if it's not in a given year?  Beyond that, the caveats that exist only in FBS football is, to many, what makes the sport great.  It's become the second most popular sport in this country despite the disparity between programs and despite the fact that there's been 187 claimed national championships in 150 seasons and could be a lot more.  I don't get why we have to so drastically change something people have loved for decades just because a bunch of people all of a sudden started caring and decided it's not fair for them (looking at UCF fans).

 

The superiority of conferences based on historic results is exactly why I think computer polls should play a significant role in the process.  A committee of people just isn't capable of taking in all of the data and letting go of their biases.

 

Caveats - being different and limiting what smaller conferences can do to get a shot at the title does not make the sport great. I'm an Ohio State fan and I know that if they win the league and lose one game, they've still got a good shot at getting in the playoffs. Why shouldn't the same thing be said of a team in the MAC, AAC or Mountain West? The reason for change is because as of now, it's not fair. Even the money split means all of the G5 conferences split less money than each P5 league gets. 

 

Computers - BCS had computer input from the start. Then people kept asking for less strength from the computers. Isn't there still a BCS emulator somewhere?

 

 

[Red Wolf]

4 minutes ago, See Red said:

USF, the team scheduling series' or games against Florida, Miami, Notre Dame, and Alabama, isn't the one scheduling like a scrub.  UCF can give up one road game for a chance to get the respect they feel they don't get and they refuse.  Turning down a 2-for-1 against Florida so you can schedule a 1-for-1 with FIU is scheduling like a scrub.  Even the AAC commissioner agrees with that.

UCF scheduling a home-and-home with a G5 makes them more pliable than the SEC's elite. It puts them in line with the Mississippi States of the world. The fact that they're not willing to bend over for Florida doesn't make them scrubs. Again, let me know when Florida is okay with playing two games in Orlando for every game in Gainesville or anything similar. Why should UCF do what UF won't?

[See Red]

32 minutes ago, Red Wolf said:

UCF scheduling a home-and-home with a G5 makes them more pliable than the SEC's elite. It puts them in line with the Mississippi States of the world. The fact that they're not willing to bend over for Florida doesn't make them scrubs. Again, let me know when Florida is okay with playing two games in Orlando for every game in Gainesville or anything similar. Why should UCF do what UF won't?

 

Again, Florida doesn't need to.  Florida has a top 10 opponent on their schedule in Jacksonville every year.  If Florida finds themselves in the playoff picture, they have a top five opponent to play in Atlanta.  They have what's normally at least a top 15 opponent with LSU every year.  On top of that, Florida already gives up a home game every year playing Georgia in Jacksonville.  Florida plays Florida State every year and has home-and-home's with Texas, Colorado, Cal, Utah, and Arizona State schedule.  Florida isn't Pitt or Georgia Tech.  Florida's not the ones crying about how hard it is to schedule good teams.

 

35 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

Caveats - being different and limiting what smaller conferences can do to get a shot at the title does not make the sport great. I'm an Ohio State fan and I know that if they win the league and lose one game, they've still got a good shot at getting in the playoffs. Why shouldn't the same thing be said of a team in the MAC, AAC or Mountain West? The reason for change is because as of now, it's not fair. Even the money split means all of the G5 conferences split less money than each P5 league gets. 

 

Computers - BCS had computer input from the start. Then people kept asking for less strength from the computers. Isn't there still a BCS emulator somewhere?

 

Not sure, but the rankings are posted on r/cfb every week.  This is a weird year so I wouldn't put too much into them.  It just weighted the AP poll and Coaches polls with an average of six different computer polls and almost all of the computer polls are still active so it's not difficult to replicate.  The Colley Matrix, one of the computer polls, is a joke.  It's actually the one that allows UCF to claim a National Championship.  That last part isn't what makes it a joke but is worth mentioning.  It's produced some ridiculous rankings because it considers wins and losses, but not who a team loses to.

 

I say bring back the BCS but the reality is it would have to be something different.  SP+ is pretty accurate at actually picking games, as is whatever Vegas uses but they're meant to be predictive and not as an actual ranking.  They also consider things like recruiting rankings, returning production, etc., which I don't think are practical to use anyway, but if you get the best minds on it, I'm confident a computer poll would be better than the committee.

[B-Rich]

2 hours ago, Brian in Boston said:

• Split said schools into 10 conferences of 12 schools each, with each conference comprised of a pair of 5-school divisions. 
        

 

Check dat math, bruh....

[Red Wolf]

6 minutes ago, See Red said:

 

Again, Florida doesn't need to.  Florida has a top 10 opponent on their schedule in Jacksonville every year.  If Florida finds themselves in the playoff picture, they have a top five opponent in Atlanta.  They have what's normally at least a top 15 opponent with LSU every year.  On top of that, Florida already gives up a home game every year playing Georgia in Jacksonville.  Florida plays Florida State every year.  Florida isn't Pitt or Georgia Tech.  Florida's not the ones crying about how hard it is to schedule good teams.

Let me know when Florida is offering two-for-ones to Florida State, Pitt and Georgia Tech then. Is it never? It seems like it's never.

 

Maybe there should be some sort of playoff in which schools like UCF can be weeded out instead of pretending them away like we do right now.

[sportsfan7]

Going back to the start of the CFP in the 2014 season here are how the playoff would've been selected for a 16 team playoff with all 10 conference champs getting a berth using the final rankings (For conference champs outside the CFP poll, I used the AP and Coaches polls from that week, and if they were in neither I made a judgement call for seeding).

 

2014

1. Alabama (12-1)

2. Oregon (12-1)

3. Florida State (13-0)

4. Ohio State (12-1)

5. Baylor (11-1)

6. TCU (11-1)

7. Mississippi State (10-2)

8. Michigan State (10-2)

9. Ole Miss (9-3)

10. Arizona (10-3)

11. Kansas St (9-3)

12. Boise St (11-2)

13. Marshall (12-1)

14. Memphis (9-3) Co-champs with Cincinnati and UCF but received more votes in the AP and Coaches Polls than either

15. Northern Illinois (11-2)

16. Louisiana-Lafayette (8-4) Conference Champion Georgia Southern was bowl ineligible while transitioning from FCS to FBS

 

2015

1. Clemson (13-0)

2. Alabama (12-1)

3. Michigan State (12-1)

4. Oklahoma (11-1)

5. Iowa (12-1)

6. Stanford (11-2)

7. Ohio State (11-2)

8. Notre Dame (10-2)

9. Florida State (10-2)

10. North Carolina (11-2)

11. TCU (10-2)

12. Houston (12-1)

13. Western Kentucky (11-2)

14. San Diego State (10-3)

15. Bowling Green (10-3)

16. Arkansas State (9-3)

 

2016

1. Alabama (13-0)

2. Clemson (12-1)

3. Ohio State (12-1)

4. Washington (12-1)

5. Penn State (11-2)

6. Michigan (10-2)

7. Oklahoma (10-2)

8. Wisconsin (10-3)

9. USC (9-3)

10. Colorado (10-3)

11. Florida State (9-3)

12. Western Michigan (13-0)

13. Temple (10-3)

14. San Diego State (10-3)

15. Western Kentucky (10-3)

16. Appalachian State (9-3) Co-Champs with Arkansas St but App State recieved 2 votes in Coaches Poll and 0 in the AP and Ark St recieved 0 in both

 

2017

1. Clemson (12-1)

2. Oklahoma (12-1)

3. Georgia (12-1)

4. Alabama (11-1)

5. Ohio State (11-2)

6. Wisconsin (12-1)

7. Auburn (10-3)

8. USC (11-2)

9. Penn State (10-2)

10. Miami (10-2)

11. Washington (10-2)

12. UCF (12-0)

13. Boise State (10-3)

14. Florida Atlantic (10-3)

15. Toledo (11-2)

16. Troy (10-2) Co-Champs with Appalachian State but Troy received votes in both the Coaches and AP Polls while App St received 0 in both

 

2018

1. Alabama (13-0)

2. Clemson (13-0)

3. Notre Dame (12-0)

4. Oklahoma (12-1)

5. Georgia (11-2)

6. Ohio State (12-1)

7. Michigan (10-2)

8. UCF (12-0)

9. Washington (10-3)

10. Florida (9-3)

11. LSU (9-3)

12. Penn State (9-3)

13. Fresno State (11-2)

14. Appalachian State (10-2)

15, UAB (10-3)

16. Northern Illinois (8-5)

 

2019

1. LSU (13-0)

2. Ohio State (13-0)

3. Clemson (13-0)

4. Oklahoma (12-1)

5. Georgia (11-2)

6. Oregon (11-2)

7. Baylor (11-2)

8. Wisconsin (10-3)

9. Florida (10-2)

10. Penn St (10-2)

11. Utah (11-2)

12. Memphis (12-1)

13. Boise State (12-1)

14. Appalachian State (12-1)

15. Florida Atlantic (10-3)

16 Miami (OH) (8-5)

[GDAWG]

Well it looks like Hawaii is going to be homeless for the next three years:

 

Aloha Stadium places ‘temporary moratorium’ on new events as pandemic and budget woes mount | Honolulu Star-Advertiser

[PrimalCookie]

20 hours ago, See Red said:

 

Ohio State did not make the playoffs the year they were blown out by Iowa -- they finished fifth after defeating Wisconsin in the Big Ten Championship game.  Alabama made the playoff as a non-CCG participant and won the National Championship over SEC Champ Georgia, who has not won a national championship since 1980 and claims their only other National Championship in a year in which most other programs didn't field teams because of WWII because they're a sad program that almost certainly cheats (the part about UGA doesn't matter but it's fun to point out).  You could make the case for UCF that year but their schedule was incredibly weak*.  For what it's worth, Ohio State also didn't make the playoffs the year they were blown out by Purdue either, finishing sixth at 12-1.

 

I don't know if they actually are, but you can easily make the argument that Texas A&M is one of the four best teams in the country -- or one of the four most-deserving based on resume.  You can't reasonably make the argument that Miami-Ohio, that lost all of their non-FCS out-of-conference games (by 71 to OSU, by 22 to Cincinnati, and by 24 to Iowa) and was 8-5 after the conference championship games was one of the sixteen best teams last season.

 

At this point, just do an eight-team playoff and let computers figure it out, not a committee that's clearly biased.  I don't see why auto-bids are necessary.  If a conference can't get a team into the top 8, that's on them.  I'd even say cap it at a max of 2 teams in any given conference.  I'd even say keep the bowl affiliations as much as you can, but in some years (last year, for one) you'd end up with #7 and #8 playing each other and you'd always get ACC #1 playing SEC #2, so it leaves the door open for higher-ranked teams complaining they got tougher first round games.

 

*Also, I think everybody should be against UCF because at least schools like Cincy and Boise State try and schedule difficult opponents every once in a while.  UCF schedules Pitt and then complains about how they couldn't possibly know when the game was scheduled that Pitt wouldn't be any good as if Pitt has ever been good without Dan Marino at QB, meanwhile they turn down offers by Florida to play.  I hate Florida State but at least they earned their way back in the 80's with a willingness to play anybody before they joined the ACC like cowards instead of the SEC because it was an easier path to national championships.

Florida offered 2 in Gainesville and 1 in the Citrus Bowl, and were turned down because UCF only does home and homes. It's not like they don't schedule P5 opponents, and lol at your assumption that they're not trying to schedule tough ones. When they scheduled Stanford in 2014, Stanford's combined record in the last 4 seasons was 46-8, finishing 3 seasons in the top 10 and the fourth at #11. By the time they actually played in 2019? 4-8, their first losing season since 2008. If that's not trying to schedule tough teams (and it just not working out by the time the game is actually played), I don't know what is. There's other examples, too - GT had recently gone 11-3 and won the Orange Bowl, Pitt had been ranked 2 of the last 3 seasons, UNC was coming off of an 11-3 and 8-5 season. I guess it's UCF's fault for not being able to see into the future and know that all of those teams would be bad when they played.

[MJWalker45]

1 hour ago, Magic Dynasty said:

When they scheduled Stanford in 2014, Stanford's combined record in the last 4 seasons was 46-8, finishing 3 seasons in the top 10 and the fourth at #11. 

The one good thing about this year is proving that you are better off to set these games up less than 2 years out. Ohio State is supposed to play Texas in 2026, but what if by then  either side has dropped off significantly or had a rough season the previous year? Granted they play early but will it have the same cache if it's between two teams that aren't expected to do much that year?

[MJWalker45]

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/ncaa-football/news/sun-belt-cancels-championship-game-after-coastal-carolina-covid-19/1i0zrlkru0wbk1ni994ca3dd14

Coastal Carolina and Louisiana are co-champs in the Sun Belt since they can't play it on the field. Louisiana wasn't happy that they didn't reschedule the game, but if these are new cases and an entire group is out, where do you fit it? 

[See Red]

54 minutes ago, Magic Dynasty said:

Florida offered 2 in Gainesville and 1 in the Citrus Bowl, and were turned down because UCF only does home and homes. It's not like they don't schedule P5 opponents, and lol at your assumption that they're not trying to schedule tough ones. When they scheduled Stanford in 2014, Stanford's combined record in the last 4 seasons was 46-8, finishing 3 seasons in the top 10 and the fourth at #11. By the time they actually played in 2019? 4-8, their first losing season since 2008. If that's not trying to schedule tough teams (and it just not working out by the time the game is actually played), I don't know what is. There's other examples, too - GT had recently gone 11-3 and won the Orange Bowl, Pitt had been ranked 2 of the last 3 seasons, UNC was coming off of an 11-3 and 8-5 season. I guess it's UCF's fault for not being able to see into the future and know that all of those teams would be bad when they played.

 

I'm just not that sympathetic to scheduling historically mid-tier P5 teams and then saying you couldn't possibly know they'd be mid-tier P5 teams five or six years later.  Though Stanford falling off was just :censored: luck.  UCF's scheduling preference is clearly to schedule mid-tier home-and-home's so they can keep seven home games, which is fine.  The issue is pursuing a scheduling strategy they know won't get them games against upper-tier P5 teams and then complaining that upper-tier P5 team's won't schedule them.  Or complaining that Florida schedules in their own best interest and not UCF's.

 

For what it's worth, the part about the UCF home game being at the Citrus Bowl is false per Florida's AD.

 

[WJMorris3]

Notre Dame says they might not play in the CFP, even if selected, if there aren't any spectators allowed.

 

I mean, that would indeed solve the problem!

[MJWalker45]

23 minutes ago, WJMorris3 said:

Notre Dame says they might not play in the CFP, even if selected, if there aren't any spectators allowed.

 

I mean, that would indeed solve the problem!

this is just grandstanding by Kelly. If they lose they'll play Alabama in the Sugar Bowl or be out of the CFP. If they win? They'd play Ohio State in the Rose Bowl (If Ohio State wins). Would the players opt out or just Kelly? I understand he's asking that the parents and family be allowed in the stadium, but trying to force a state to do what you want? It sounds like he's been hanging out with Dabo too much this week. 

[JTernup]

1 hour ago, See Red said:

 

I'm just not that sympathetic to scheduling historically mid-tier P5 teams and then saying you couldn't possibly know they'd be mid-tier P5 teams five or six years later.  Though Stanford falling off was just luck.  UCF's scheduling preference is clearly to schedule mid-tier home-and-home's so they can keep seven home games, which is fine.  The issue is pursuing a scheduling strategy they know won't get them games against upper-tier P5 teams and then complaining that upper-tier P5 team's won't schedule them.  Or complaining that Florida schedules in their own best interest and not UCF's.

 

For what it's worth, the part about the UCF home game being at the Citrus Bowl is false per Florida's AD.

That's what really annoys me about all of this. What does UF have to gain from offering UCF a 1 and 1? We can go out to Texas, Utah, Colorado and play 1 and 1's so why would we go to a tiny stadium in Orlando. That doesn't benefit UF in any way, it actually provides the UCF program with legitimacy that could only serve to hurt UF in the long term. We already have to compete with 2 of the most successful schools in CFB history within the state why would UF do anything that could help UCF without getting an added benefit (i.e. 2 for 1)?

[MJWalker45]

1 hour ago, JTernup said:

That's what really annoys me about all of this. What does UF have to gain from offering UCF a 1 and 1? We can go out to Texas, Utah, Colorado and play 1 and 1's so why would we go to a tiny stadium in Orlando. That doesn't benefit UF in any way, it actually provides the UCF program with legitimacy that could only serve to hurt UF in the long term. We already have to compete with 2 of the most successful schools in CFB history within the state why would UF do anything that could help UCF without getting an added benefit (i.e. 2 for 1)?

Aren't they already fighting for the same recruits? That would signal they are already seen as a legitimate program in UF's eyes. And why should UCF have to play at another stadium as the home team? The only schools that seem to force this are Notre Dame, with Navy, and Alabama when they play Classic games at the start of the year. 

[See Red]

Just now, MJWalker45 said:

Aren't they already fighting for the same recruits? That would signal they are already seen as a legitimate program in UF's eyes. And why should UCF have to play at another stadium as the home team? The only schools that seem to force this are Notre Dame, with Navy, and Alabama when they play Classic games at the start of the year. 

 

Not really.  I don't follow recruiting that closely but I can't think of any off of the top of my head that came down to Florida and UCF as the final choices.  Looking at the 2020 classes, Florida's lowest-rated recruit (outside of a punter) was rated higher than UCF's highest-rated, so for the bulk of either team's classes, they're not really competing against each other.  A neutral site game as part of the 2-for-1 was never discussed per the Florida AD.  I shared a tweet of his in a previous post, but the discussions never progressed to a point where that was discussed and he was under the assumption the game would be played at UCF's stadium.

 

 

[sportsfan7]

A continuation of the posts I made yesterday; this is how a pre-BCS system would look in the CFP era. PAC-12 champ vs Big 10 champ in the Rose Bowl, SEC champ vs at-large in the Sugar Bowl, ACC champ vs at-large in the Orange Bowl, Big 12 champ vs at-large in the Cotton Bowl, at-large vs at-large in the Fiesta Bowl, and at-large vs at-large in the Peach Bowl. One of the at-large teams is a G5 champion. Ideally, the top at-large teams would play in the Sugar, Orange, and Cotton Bowls. After the Bowls are played on New Years Day and Eve, there would be a championship game, or possibly a 4 team playoff.

 

2014

Rose Bowl

2. Oregon vs 4. Ohio State

Sugar Bowl

1. Alabama vs 6. TCU

Orange Bowl

3. Florida State vs 7. Mississippi State

Cotton Bowl

5. Baylor vs 8. Michigan State

Fiesta Bowl

10. Arizona vs 20. Boise State

Peach Bowl

9. Ole Miss vs 11. Kansas State

 

2015

Rose Bowl

3. Michigan State vs 6. Stanford

Sugar Bowl

2. Alabama vs 8. Notre Dame

Orange Bowl

1. Clemson vs 7. Ohio State

Cotton Bowl

4. Oklahoma vs 5. Iowa

Fiesta Bowl

10. North Carolina vs 11. TCU

Peach Bowl

9. Florida State vs 18. Houston

 

2016

Rose Bowl

3. Ohio State vs 4. Washington

Sugar Bowl

1. Alabama vs 6. Michigan

Orange Bowl

2. Clemson vs 5. Penn State

Sugar Bowl

7. Oklahoma vs 8. Wisconsin

Fiesta Bowl

10. Colorado vs 15. Western Michigan

Peach Bowl

9. USC vs 11. Florida State

 

2017

Rose Bowl

5. Ohio State vs 8. USC

Sugar Bowl

3. Georgia vs 6. Wisconsin

Orange Bowl

1. Clemson vs 4. Alabama

Cotton Bowl

2. Oklahoma vs 12. UCF

Fiesta Bowl

9. Penn State vs 10. Miami

Peach Bowl

7. Auburn vs 11. Washington

 

2018

Rose Bowl

6. Ohio State vs 9. Washington

Sugar Bowl

1. Alabama vs 3. Notre Dame

Orange Bowl

2. Clemson vs 8. UCF

Cotton Bowl

4. Oklahoma vs 5. Georgia

Fiesta Bowl

11. LSU vs 12. Penn State

Peach Bowl

7. Michigan vs 10. Florida

 

2019

Rose Bowl

2. Ohio State vs 6. Oregon

Sugar Bowl

1. LSU vs 7. Baylor

Orange Bowl

3. Clemson vs 5. Georgia

Cotton Bowl

4. Oklahoma vs 8. Wisconsin

Fiesta Bowl

10. Penn State vs 17. Memphis

Peach Bowl

9. Florida vs 11. Utah

[Dilbert]

11 hours ago, WJMorris3 said:

Notre Dame says they might not play in the CFP, even if selected, if there aren't any spectators allowed.

 

I mean, that would indeed solve the problem!

Go figure Brian Kelly wants to ruin another major bowl game for his players. He walked out of Cincinnati leaving them high and dry for Notre Dame just before they were to play Urban Meyer, Tim Tebow and Florida in the Sugar Bowl in the programs biggest game ever, with the players finding out from the media. Coincidently, if he doesnt want Notre Dame to play in the CFP, I know Cincinnati would love to take their place.