Patriots Unveil New Uniforms

[WSU151]

4 minutes ago, canzman said:

What is might boil down to is that the numbers are difficult to place on the Pats with this design so the NFL is fine with not having it. The Browns design does not prevent them so the NFL refused the request as it seems clear the NFL prefers that they are there.

 

I think the Panthers could get away with not having them as well as what they are are so ridiculous and small given the current design. If a team elects to have them even if small the NFL is fine with it but would also be fine with them not being there.

 

Pats opted out and Panthers opted in. Browns didn't have the option as they could put them on either the sleeve or shoulder and the design wasn't a throwback for historical accuracy.

 

Couldn't the NFL say "If you're not going to have numbers on the shoulders, then put them on the sleeves and take off the logo"? Especially since the wordmark on the chest has the logo?

 

I get that Kraft loves his logo on the sleeves, but seems like the NFL could have altered his jersey design. 

[DCarp1231]

The more I think about it...

 

I think the jerseys would have fared better if the stripes were moved to the sleeves with the logo laid on top. Leaving more than enough space for TV numbers.

[kimball]

1 hour ago, Volt said:

 

I stand by my take.  These are beautiful and a tremendous improvement over their current Away set:

 

 

 

 

Really?

 

I always found these uniforms bland. Even the narrative of it representing a white tiger is lost with orange tiger stripe lids. Make the helmet white and black and then it's "better"

 

 

[tohasbo]

2 hours ago, rjrrzube said:

Does this officially mean the Cardinals are the only team left with '90s-era piping in their uniform? 

 

2 hours ago, canzman said:

Broncos as well.

 

1 hour ago, rjrrzube said:

Forgot about those white unis. 

I was going to say if there is any, it's only on the white jerseys.  On Denver, I know they've always been a want by a lot of people here.  However, I do not see them changing unless the Bowlen Trust and/or Ellis give the thumbs up for it.

[Gothamite]

33 minutes ago, canzman said:

Did some googling and found this... guess this puts and end to the speculation.

 

No, it really doesn't.

 

Wikis aren't generally considered to be reliable sources about anything.  They're more speculation than anything else.

[Jojopeligreeno]

Broncos Bengals and Cards are on the board in terms of outdated looks 

[henburg]

1 hour ago, IceCap said:

Say you have a room of five people. And you show those five people a painting. 

Four of them dislike it. One person likes it. 

 

Is the one guy who likes it getting "ganged up on"?

 

Say you have a room of people, hosting some sort of Art Appreciation Club. Excited about the prospect of discussing your passion for art with others, you decide to go to a meeting. It's a bit intimidating since the group has already built a clear long-standing rapport with one another, but you're still eager to put yourself out there in the hopes of joining a community of people with similar interests. Getting the chance to contribute to the conversation, you begin to discuss a new exhibition you enjoy full of modern art, only to be quickly shot down with comments that lack in good-will or even offer a chance for response: "That's not real art", "That's thoughtless trash","Everything created past the Impressionist period is terrible", etc.  Upon being thoroughly dismissed by the group at-large, you feel isolated and unheard, eventually losing the motivation to come to any more meetings. The Art Appreciation Club loses a new voice that could contribute to a greater representation of the opinions that exist in the world, leading to the preferences of the group becoming more internally codified and the conversations growing less nuanced. Everybody loses in the end as the group's original mission of providing a common ground for all to appreciate art is lost.

 

It's a difference in tone and general understanding between people, which your original metaphor neglects to mention. 

[Beer Barrel Man]

It's definitely an upgrade over the last set, but I believe they should have gone all the way and actually ditched the silver completely.  They also badly need some red or white pants to avoid monochrome.  

[IceCap]

1 hour ago, DNAsports said:

No, that’s not at all what I meant. I was trying to grasp a better understanding of your thoughts. We all have opinions, but I just wasn’t sure what you meant. No disrespect intended.

10-4, thanks for clearing it up 

 

My take has certainly improved since moving through the thread and seeing that the pants striping does match the jersey striping. That's big, and helps bring the new set together. 

I'm still hoping we see silver (preferred) or white (I'll take it) pants for the home look though. I think that, after six Super Bowls, the Pats have established themselves as a "navy over silver/white over navy" team, even if the uni details change. 

 

The consistent striping does go a long way to fixing these for me, the monochrome just isn't my cup of tea. Good news is they can roll out new pants whenever so that's nice. 

 

The lack of tv numbers amuse me though. I actually don't care one way or the other but the fact that the NFL told the Browns they had to have them is just too perfect.

Was it a case of the Browns just making the mistake of asking? And the Pats just did what they wanted without checking first? That would certainly track! 

 

1 hour ago, SFGiants58 said:

You’ve called people like Volt and Lights Out things like that all the time. Just because somebody like Nike’s work doesn’t make their opinion invalid.

Yes I did, though not recently. I stopped because...well...they actually stopped cheerleading. Not to say their opinions changed- and that's the thing. Lights Out and Volt probably like a whole host of things I don't care for and vice versa. And that's fine. 
I don't care if someone disagrees with me. That's what this place is for after all, for discussion. If you and I have different tastes and we talk about it and neither of us moves the other? We're all good. Like I told that Newport guy. I don't hold his dislike of the Bucs' Bucco Bruce set against him. 

 

What I tend to take issue with- and have called out- is what I see as this sort of loyalty to a brand over design. If you like Nike's work that's perfectly fine. But if you're just defending everything they do because they're Nike? Then that's a problem. 

And when someone responds with a post about how everyone is mean to Nike and that people to be more fair to Nike- which is a billion dollar corporation and not a person with feelings- then I'll find that take eyebrow raising.

 

In short, like what you like. Like Nike's most conceptual, experimental work if that's your bag. I just find overt brand loyalty to companies like that weird. 

 

1 hour ago, SFGiants58 said:

Fair. What’s your definition of “done well,” if I may ask?

I mean it all depends. I don't think there's a solid rule book on "done well." It's just a matter of "do I like it?" I really liked the Titans' previous identity, and I would say that was pretty modern. 

For the sake of discussion? Let's look at the Falcons. What would I say would work for them as a modern look? Well I would say that they're so painfully close actually. 

 

-Drop the gradient, make it a solid red jersey. 

-Switch the number font out for the previous set's number font (I disliked the last Falcons unis, but that number font was very nice)

-Replace the giant ATL with a regular sized "ATLANTA" or "FALCONS" wordmark...I'd even take a smaller "ATL"

-Make the helmet gloss instead of satin. 

 

I think that if you did something like that with the new Falcons set? You'd have a very slick, modern look. The bones of the design are quite strong and modern, but the most visually dominating aspects (the giant ATL and the number font) don't work for me. Still, if you changed those out for other elements that were equally modern just in different ways? I'd be down. 

 

1 hour ago, SFGiants58 said:

I was trying to point out a significant trend/general cultural construct on the boards.

I can best address that with this...

 

1 hour ago, SFGiants58 said:

It depends on how you treat the one guy.

So say that, after all five people have seen the painting they start talking. And no one is really trying to push their opinions on anyone, they're just talking. And the four people who dislike the painting are all more or less in agreement but the one guy who likes it is constantly having his opinions challenged. Not by any sort of effort from the other four, but it's a five way conversation. Every time the lone dissenter says something one of the five just so happens to go "eh I disagree because..."

 

It's understandable for the lone dissenter to feel ganged up on, but that's not what's happening, really. It's just that in a conversation like this everyone is saying their piece. 

 

That's what I feel happens here. We're all just talking. Sharing our opinions. And most people aren't looking to target people or weaponize their opinions against others. Everyone is just sharing their thoughts and if you happen to have a minority viewpoint? It can seem like someone's shouting you down at every turn. That's not what's happening though, at least not intentionally. 

 

That's why I tell people own that they're the minority. Going on about how "everyone here just hates X and likes Y" isn't helpful, because it dismisses people's legitimate opinions.

People who find themselves in the minority on stuff like this should instead embrace it and unapologetically flaunt their opinions. Not in an aggressive and hostile way (like our friend in the Falcons thread who wanted to interrogate everyone) but in a "this is what I like and I'm going to explain why I like it" sort of way. 

 

In short I want people who may find themselves with a minority viewpoint in this or any other thread to positively embrace what they like and not start accusing others of being a bunch of sheep. That's not helpful and only serves to make others defensive and hostile in return. 

 

1 hour ago, SFGiants58 said:

Once again, I apologize for my conduct

There's no need to apologize for stating your opinion. It's always good to keep others honest 

[IceCap]

53 minutes ago, canzman said:

Did some googling and found this... guess this puts and end to the speculation.
 

 

So the NFL just likes  ing with the Browns. Good to know. 

[BrandMooreArt]

7 minutes ago, henburg said:

 

Say you have a room of people, hosting some sort of Art Appreciation Club. Excited about the prospect of discussing your passion for art with others, you decide to go to a meeting. It's a bit intimidating since the group has already built a clear long-standing rapport with one another, but you're still eager to put yourself out there in the hopes of joining a community of people with similar interests. Getting the chance to contribute to the conversation, you begin to discuss a new exhibition you enjoy full of modern art, only to be quickly shot down with comments that lack in good-will or even offer a chance for response: "That's not real art", "That's thoughtless trash","Everything created past the Impressionist period is terrible", etc.  Upon being thoroughly dismissed by the group at-large, you feel isolated and unheard, eventually losing the motivation to come to any more meetings. The Art Appreciation Club loses a new voice that could contribute to a greater representation of the opinions that exist in the world, leading to the preferences of the group becoming more internally codified and the conversations growing less nuanced. Everybody loses in the end as the group's original mission of providing a common ground for all to appreciate art is lost.

 

It's a difference in tone and general understanding between people, which your original metaphor neglects to mention. 

 

one of the best architectural firms in the States (arguably the world) is OMA. they have a small number of established, experienced leaders but don't shy away from inexperience. in fact, “Not knowing has become a qualification and offers the benefit of a different perspective.". in other words, they seek out up and coming people to bust their group think. it makes their work better and evolves it as new people contribute right away. i think it would be good for this community to think the same way

[IceCap]

12 hours ago, kimball said:

 

Really?

 

I always found these uniforms bland. Even the narrative of it representing a white tiger is lost with orange tiger stripe lids. Make the helmet white and black and then it's "better"

 

 

I wouldn't say they're amazing on their own but they work as a starting point if you were going to "fix" the Bengals. 

[Froob]

1 hour ago, canzman said:

So here is what we would get if they rolled out silver or white pants.

Damn that red outline really pops on those pants. Should add both options with the white being used sparingly.

[andrewharrington]

I always liked the solid TV numbers that matched the trim of the body numbers. I think it worked especially well in this case because it gave the smaller, less visible TV numbers better clarity and contrast. I often look at how the elements and background interact to create unity and cohesion, so the white TV numbers sitting against the blue ground coordinate fine with the body numbers, which have a white trim/base layer sitting against the blue ground.

 

The other way around, however (body numbers with trim and TV numbers or lettering that are the same full color but with no trim), I think that has a tendency to look cheap or unfinished. The Trail Blazers, for example, have a wordmark with no trim and numbers with red trim, and not only does it look like they forgot to add the trim to the wordmarks, but you get an odd clash of color tones because the wordmarks have a crisp, neutral black/white contrast, but the red trim on the numbers gives them a warmer, pinker tone. Undesirable effect, in my opinion.

[IceCap]

22 minutes ago, henburg said:

It's a difference in tone and general understanding between people, which your original metaphor neglects to mention. 

I addressed that above actually. People here are just here to talk and share their opinions. 

Sometimes this leads to people whose viewpoints are in the minority to feel like they're being shut down, even if no one has that intention. 

 

The solution is to proudly like what you like then, and not yell at everyone else (who are merely sharing their own sincerely held beliefs and preferences), trying to belittle their opinions. 

 

Because osv is right. When you take the "everyone here just likes old stuff and hates new stuff" approach you're invalidating sincerely held preferences and opinions other people have. And that is NOT an ideal solution to the above problem.

[VikWings]

They are silver (er, gray) pants away from being a beautiful uniform. Full time mono at home? 

 

Can we get the Browns fans who are forcing the issue with orange pants to get the Pats to do the same with silver?

[Cujo]

50 minutes ago, tohasbo said:

On Denver, I know they've always been a want by a lot of people here.  However, I do not see them changing unless the Bowlen Trust and/or Ellis give the thumbs up for it.

 

While many like the throwback "D" and color rush sets , there are no complaints from the locals about the current set either.

 

The cyber bronco unis are going nowhere, at least not for the foreseeable future. If it wasn't associated with , things may be different.

[Claystation360]

3 minutes ago, Cujo said:

 

While many like the throwback "D" and color rush sets , there are no complaints from the locals about the current set either.

 

The cyber bronco unis are going nowhere, at least not for the foreseeable future. If it wasn't associated with , things may be different.

I mean a team with  of these, just moved on from their set.

[Cujo]

Just now, Claystation360 said:

I mean a team with  of these, just moved on from their set.

 

Far from an overhaul. Lmk when the Pats abort the logo, helmet and primary colors.

[VikWings]

3 hours ago, ptaylor said:

 

At this point, I have no complaints with the Cardinals and Broncos. It could always be worse.....

 

*Sees fleeting image of the red blood-clot unis and ANOTHER mono-navy set and passes out* 

 

If I'm the Broncos, I'm making the color rush (with white pants) the primary and making a white version. And I'm keeping the current navy jersey/white pants as a Super Bowl throwback. I never had a problem with the current unis and unless they're going to do what I suggested in my first sentence, I'd rather them stay status quo then go with some new fangled nike mess.

 

The Cardinals are weird. I never liked the red jerseys, liked the white in 2005 but they haven't aged well, but I for some reason love the black set. My favorite Cardinals jersey is the white one with the state flag on the sleeve from the 90s/early 00s. I actually have an old Boldin replica of that. I wanted to say careful what you wish for, but I want to think the worst we'd get is a lateral move, unless it's monochrome madness like the Falcons and now Patriots. the Falcons set would be ok (besides the alt) if they wear the right combos, but the problem is that they won't.