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5 hours ago, GrimlockAutobot said:

Whether or not a professional sports team's brand is synonymous with the city they play in is also a key factor in deciding whether that brand is "iconic" IMO. i.e. the Yankees "NY" represents NYC as much as any landmark or anything else within the city itself.

 

":censored:, I made the Yankee hat more famous than a Yankee can" - Shawn Carter

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2 hours ago, monkeypower said:

 

":censored:, I made the Yankee hat more famous than a Yankee can" - Shawn Carter

He can say that but we all know it’s not true.

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41 minutes ago, dont care said:

He can say that but we all know it’s not true.

 

I mean, it's a purposefully boastful line but I'd actually be curious to know whether ANY Yankee is as famous as Jay-Z. Baseball is biggest in Latin America, the US, and Japan. Hip-hop arguably has a much broader appeal.

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17 hours ago, -Akronite- said:

 

I mean, it's a purposefully boastful line but I'd actually be curious to know whether ANY Yankee is as famous as Jay-Z. Baseball is biggest in Latin America, the US, and Japan. Hip-hop arguably has a much broader appeal.

 

Historical Yankees arguably are as famous as Jay-Z...Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Joe DiMaggio, Lou Gehrig, and/or maybe Yogi Berra. 

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3 hours ago, WSU151 said:

 

Historical Yankees arguably are as famous as Jay-Z...Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Joe DiMaggio, Lou Gehrig, and/or maybe Yogi Berra. 

 

In America possibly. Yogi Berra definitely not. Most people probably think you're talking about the cartoon character and have little to no clue about the actual man. I'm not convinced (but certainly could be) that even Babe Ruth is all that well known outside of the US.

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44 minutes ago, -Akronite- said:

 

In America possibly. Yogi Berra definitely not. Most people probably think you're talking about the cartoon character and have little to no clue about the actual man. I'm not convinced (but certainly could be) that even Babe Ruth is all that well known outside of the US.

 

I think many people have heard at least one of Yogi Berra's famous/infamous quotes - his sayings are pretty ubiquitous, people just might not know anything about his playing career.

 

I believe Shohei was getting compared to Babe Ruth while he was still in Japan, and I'm sure that was a popular comparison in Japan due to Ruth's history there. 

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4 hours ago, WSU151 said:

 

Historical Yankees arguably are as famous as Jay-Z...Babe Ruth, Mickey Mantle, Joe DiMaggio, Lou Gehrig, and/or maybe Yogi Berra. 

 

I really don't know about this. I really don't think there's much of an argument to be made that historical baseball players are as famous today as one of the major media icons of the last 30 years.

 

I also really do think that Jay-Z has made Yankee hats more prominent than any of those players, at least in modern times.

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1 hour ago, -Akronite- said:

 

In America possibly. Yogi Berra definitely not. Most people probably think you're talking about the cartoon character and have little to no clue about the actual man. I'm not convinced (but certainly could be) that even Babe Ruth is all that well known outside of the US.

Japan says hold my Kirin Ichiban, Onegaishimasu.

 

https://theconversation.com/babe-ruth-in-a-kimono-how-baseball-diplomacy-has-fortified-japan-us-relations-93629

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18 minutes ago, monkeypower said:

 

I really don't know about this. I really don't think there's much of an argument to be made that historical baseball players are as famous today as one of the major media icons of the last 30 years.

 

I also really do think that Jay-Z has made Yankee hats more prominent than any of those players, at least in modern times.

 

I think there are multiple arguments that can be made in the umbrella of “Who made the Yankees hat popular?”

 

I think Babe Ruth’s legacy stands out more than the others, in term of historical players. 

 

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5 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

 

I think there are multiple arguments that can be made in the umbrella of “Who made the Yankees hat popular?”

 

I think Babe Ruth’s legacy stands out more than the others, in term of historical players. 

 

 

How many non-Yankees fans did Babe Ruth inspire to wear the cap? How many non-baseball fans?

 

9 minutes ago, TrueYankee26 said:

 

Per my previous post, baseball is biggest in Latin America, the US, and Japan. Outside of these places you will likely have trouble finding people who know any baseball players, while it's more likely they know the NY logo from popular culture outside of sports.

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You're all going to laugh, but I feel like among a certain population, Fred Durst did an awful lot for Yankees hat sales. Specifically red hats:

 

Fred+Durst-8.JPG

Fred-Durst-2.jpg

FredDurstNowCover.jpg

 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, -Akronite- said:

 

How many non-Yankees fans did Babe Ruth inspire to wear the cap? How many non-baseball fans?

 

I mean, I can't quantify how many people are wearing Yankees hats because of Jay-Z either. 

 

The Yankees winning in the 90s had a lot to do with it, and with that, Jeter became hugely famous...so famous, in fact, that Jay-Z was in a Derek Jeter commercial when he retired. 

 

If the Yankees had sucked in the 90s liked they did in the 80s, I'm not sure people would follow Jay-Z's lead. 

 

It's also weird to me that people would wear a Yankees hat just because of Jay-Z or Fred Durst but that's beyond this argument, though I guess that's really how fashion trends start - someone wears something and people like it and think it's cool and start wearing it too. 

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5 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

 

I mean, I can't quantify how many people are wearing Yankees hats because of Jay-Z either. 

 

The Yankees winning in the 90s had a lot to do with it, and with that, Jeter became hugely famous...so famous, in fact, that Jay-Z was in a Derek Jeter commercial when he retired. 

 

 If the Yankees had sucked in the 90s liked they did in the 80s, I'm not sure people would follow Jay-Z's lead. 

 

It's also weird to me that people would wear a Yankees hat just because of Jay-Z or Fred Durst but that's beyond this argument. 

 

Yeah, can't expect there to be a study ready on famousness of baseball players v Jay-Z. These are all good points. I think when we finish going down the rabbit hole we will realize that the original Baltimore Orioles are really the ones responsible for all of this!

 

Sports apparel has been co-opted outside of sports culture for a while now, so nothing is too surprising anymore.

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On 5/5/2020 at 3:14 PM, -Akronite- said:

 

I mean, it's a purposefully boastful line but I'd actually be curious to know whether ANY Yankee is as famous as Jay-Z. Baseball is biggest in Latin America, the US, and Japan. Hip-hop arguably has a much broader appeal.

Jay-Z being more famous than any one Yankee has nothing to do with who moves the most Yankee caps. I would wager more people buy those caps because of the Yankees than because of Jay-Z. 

Mostly because you can be a Jay-Z fan and feel no urge to buy a Yankees cap. 

I know I don't tend to go out and buy hats just because the musicians I like wear them.

 

Also...ahem... f Jay-Z.

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1 hour ago, IceCap said:

Jay-Z being more famous than any one Yankee has nothing to do with who moves the most Yankee caps. I would wager more people buy those caps because of the Yankees than because of Jay-Z. 

 

First, yes it does have something to do with it. Second, moving Yankee caps is only part of the discussion. The lyric is "I made the Yankee hat more famous than a Yankee can" not "I sell more Yankee hats than any Yankee can." 

 

Besides, how many people go out and buy a CAP because they like a specific player? I'm sure it happens, but usually you get a cap because you're a fan of the team or it's a style choice. Jay-Z has more influence in the world of fashion and style than likely any Yankee ever, so even on this standard I'm not sure the Yankees win.

 

As for the "F Jay Z" comment, well yeah. As sports fans we should be well aware that there's no such thing as an ethical billionaire. I'm sure you'll find plenty more problematic lyrics if you go through his discography. But that's beside the point of course.

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In a way, I'm glad Jay-Z rapped about how Jews control real estate, because it gave validation to a longtime hobbyhorse of mine, which is that Jay-Z sucks really bad. Imagine writing music about your diversified investment portfolio. Imagine people listening to it and liking it! Hack work. "Unh, bought some derivatives for Beyonce, unh, bet the broker made 9/11 an off day," the worst, just music for idiots.

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17 minutes ago, -Akronite- said:

First, yes it does have something to do with it. Second, moving Yankee caps is only part of the discussion. The lyric is "I made the Yankee hat more famous than a Yankee can" not "I sell more Yankee hats than any Yankee can." 

 

I think you're trying way too hard to explain away a lyric that offers itself as self-conscious braggadocio.  It's not meant to be taken seriously.

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1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

 

I think you're trying way too hard to explain away a lyric that offers itself as self-conscious braggadocio.  It's not meant to be taken seriously.

 

Nah, just having fun. @dont care seemed offended on behalf of the Yankees so I offered a Jay-Z rebuttal. I didn't assume anyone misunderstood the intent of the lyric, that wasn't the point.

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I don’t want to speak for anybody, but @dont care treated it like a joke because the lyric was a joke. Seemed like some people were actually taking Jay-Z seriously.  😛

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