Los Angeles NFL Brands Discussion

[WavePunter]

Thanks. That looks incredible. I think that's the perfect Rams look. However, if they want to move away from the shoulder horns for spacing reasons or otherwise, they could just with with their current shoulder design and have it look great.

i think that may be the option they go with, as well as one of the best options available.. essentially use their exact same current jerseys, just recolor navy to royal and gold to yellow.. i'd adjust the pants options a bit (White with BYB stripes and yellow with BWB stripes), but i think you're right on w/ the jerseys

[oldschoolvikings]

So, it's not just BFBS; it's a tertiary color used to enhance contrast. If anyone thought I was calling for predominantly black jerseys or pants, that was not my meaning. If you want these to be even more impactful, instead of Navy, keep Royal Blue; someone take one of these and Photoshop the Navy to royal and the contrast is even more striking.

Ouch. Against my better judgement, I'm going to jump in, especially since you mentioned a knowledge of "color theory" as to why your opinion (which you are more than welcome to) is somehow more valid.

I teach design and color at an art and design college, and can discuss the minutia of color interaction for hours at a time... in fact, that is exactly how I spend most of my days. That's my annoyingly self-important disclaimer, up front. This could get very long and boring, so feel free to skip.

First off, it makes my teeth ache when you say black is a "tertiary color"... I think I know what you're trying to say, but "tertiary color" is a very specific term for the six colors you get from directly mixing a primary color and a non-complementary secondary color... yellow-orange, red-violet, blue-green, etc., are tertiary colors... technically, black isn't a color at all, for that matter.

When you're looking to create contrast with a specific color, there are three basic ways to do it. You can do it by HUE (the direct comparison of pure colors), by VALUE (the relative lightness or darkness of colors), or by SATURATION (the brightness or intensity of colors). In other words, blue contrast very strongly with orange because of a contrast of hue... they are opposites on the color wheel, like red with green, and violet with yellow. If you want to contrast blue by value, you might go with sky blue vs navy blue... both are blue but with a huge difference in value. A contrast of saturation is much trickier, but still possible... you could think about Detroit's bright Honolulu blue vs the Seahawks previous slate gray-blue as an obvious difference of saturation. Or for that matter, any pure color contrasted with middle gray... it works but not especially strongly.

What we are discussing here is not really any of that. We are talking about contrasting a color against black. And black and white are not colors (they exist outside the wavelengths of the visible spectrum, and therefore follow a different set of rules), so any contrast of a true hue against black or white comes down to what we call INHERENT COLOR VALUE, or the relative lightness or darkness of a color in it's pure unmodified state. Basically, each color has an inherent value that can be compared to a nine part gray scale, like in this Munsel Color Tree...

So a color with a lighter Inherent Value, such as yellow or yellow/orange will contrast very well with black, but poorly with white (which why you never see a team wear plain yellow numbers on a white jersey), and a color with a darker Inherent Value, such as purple, blue, and especially navy blue (which is made by adding black to blue) will contrast very poorly with black, but great with white.

It's pretty simple... black is the darkest "color" you can have and navy blue is almost as dark. It's OK to like it from a personal aesthetic standpoint, it's OK to think it looks cool or modern or whatever... it's all personal opinion. But I don't think you can claim that navy blue and black have any sort of contrasting relationship, and you especially can't defend it for "color theory" reasons, because none exist.

tl/dnr version... navy blue is dark, black is even darker... they visually blend, not contrast.

[Sport]

I disagree that royal blue works better with black than the old color, but both colors were wrong for them. They should have used a brighter, electric blue. And I don't see any way they could effectively use black with their current scheme. Any black you use would have to be separated from blue by white, and even then, it would look blue from a distance.

Also, McCarthy, since you're good with photoshop, would you mind photoshopping the photo you posted to have royal blue helmets and white numbers, while keeping the horns yellow? I think that's the perfect Rams look.

left the guy on the left in the regular uniform so you could compare and contrast

always felt like there was too much yellow on that jersey and that flipping the numbers to white was a very easy solution. I really like how this looks.

just for giggle times I took out the white stripe on Bradford's pants to see what that would look like.

I think if you're going to go that route it's still better just to use a single thick bold stripe rather than two small stripes.

[BrandMooreArt]

i dont think any designer/manufacturer would use black and navy for contrast between elements (you're not not putting a navy number on a black jersey) but to create a "deeper" color palette. for instance, with WVU's colors, you get a wider range of value, from yellow to black rather than yellow to navy.

in that example, black being a tertiary color (not in the sense of mixing colors as OSV pointed out but as being the 3rd in the palette in hierarchy) is just that - a 3rd color. they dont use it to separate elements or make anything more readable or stand out, they use it to create a unique color palette. overall, WVU's uniform is a much more modern take on the traditional design due to it's careful use of black

I disagree that royal blue works better with black than the old color, but both colors were wrong for them. They should have used a brighter, electric blue. And I don't see any way they could effectively use black with their current scheme. Any black you use would have to be separated from blue by white, and even then, it would look blue from a distance.

Also, McCarthy, since you're good with photoshop, would you mind photoshopping the photo you posted to have royal blue helmets and white numbers, while keeping the horns yellow? I think that's the perfect Rams look.

left the guy on the left in the regular uniform so you could compare and contrast

always felt like there was too much yellow on that jersey and that flipping the numbers to white was a very easy solution. I really like how this looks.

just for giggle times I took out the white stripe on Bradford's pants to see what that would look like.

I think if you're going to go that route it's still better just to use a single thick bold stripe rather than two small stripes.

thats much better. with the white stripe, your eye is attracted to it because it's the element that contrast the most and there is no other white in the uniform. take it away and the uniform is much more balanced. from top to bottom, you now have a uniform with great unity and rhythm - there isn't anything that is out of place. its a nice use of yellow-blue from top to bottom.

but, for a better palette and more contrast, i personally like the numbers in white like the example before.

[sc49erfan15]

I heard they're going to have a clear panel on the jerseys.

[WavePunter]

i agree with the point i think you're trying to make BMA, but i think you could argue that the only thing "modern" about what they're doing, is that they're just randomly throwing BLACK in there because BLACK IS COOL AND MODERN.. but you're exactly right, i think they're trying to achieve a richer, deeper color pallete by adding additional colors that dont really muddle the look, and i guess you could say they succeeded, but i would also bet a big chunk of money that there were people who watched that game and either A) didnt notice the black at all, or just noticed something odd about the navy blue on the jersey - but without recognizing it's actually black.... which, is why i think it was ultimately done for no reason other than to get the kids excited (which is perfectly fine, especially for a one-off).. as you said, they didn't use it to enhance contrast though, which is odd, because i feel like they could've been more justified in their use by doing so.. essentially make the parts of the jersey black that have yellow embellishments, and make all the other areas navy, which i think would've accomplished both goals AND been defendable (although ugly)

[hawk36]

I disagree that royal blue works better with black than the old color, but both colors were wrong for them. They should have used a brighter, electric blue. And I don't see any way they could effectively use black with their current scheme. Any black you use would have to be separated from blue by white, and even then, it would look blue from a distance.

Also, McCarthy, since you're good with photoshop, would you mind photoshopping the photo you posted to have royal blue helmets and white numbers, while keeping the horns yellow? I think that's the perfect Rams look.

left the guy on the left in the regular uniform so you could compare and contrast

always felt like there was too much yellow on that jersey and that flipping the numbers to white was a very easy solution. I really like how this looks.

just for giggle times I took out the white stripe on Bradford's pants to see what that would look like.

I think if you're going to go that route it's still better just to use a single thick bold stripe rather than two small stripes.

Agree. The double stripe doesn't match anything else in the set whereas the single bold stripe does.

[CreamSoda]

So, it's not just BFBS; it's a tertiary color used to enhance contrast. If anyone thought I was calling for predominantly black jerseys or pants, that was not my meaning. If you want these to be even more impactful, instead of Navy, keep Royal Blue; someone take one of these and Photoshop the Navy to royal and the contrast is even more striking.

First off, it makes my teeth ache when you say black is a "tertiary color"... I think I know what you're trying to say, but "tertiary color" is a very specific term for the three colors you get from directly mixing any two primary colors... orange, violet, and green are tertiary colors... technically, black isn't a color at all, for that matter.

Yikes, for your own good you may want to actually know what the tertiary colors are... You are completely wrong.

You just listed the secondary colors, not tertiary. And you are a professor in this?!? I hope your students aren't getting more misinformation from you.

[oldschoolvikings]

i dont think any designer/manufacturer would use black and navy for contrast between elements (you're not not putting a navy number on a black jersey) but to create a "deeper" color palette. for instance, with WVU's colors, you get a wider range of value, from yellow to black rather than yellow to navy.

in that example, black being a tertiary color (not in the sense of mixing colors as OSV pointed out but as being the 3rd in the palette in hierarchy) is just that - a 3rd color. they dont use it to separate elements or make anything more readable or stand out, they use it to create a unique color palette. overall, WVU's uniform is a much more modern take on the traditional design due to it's careful use of black

I agree that WVU isn't trying to using black for contrast. As you say, they're just trying to add a twist to their traditional color scheme without changing it too much. I just think, at this point, adding black is such a lazy (I might even say chickenbleep) way of punching up your color scheme that I can't have any respect for it. It's such a cliched fall back at this point... the Detroit Lions, the Cincinnati Reds, the New York Mets, the 49ers, on and on and on... such a lack of imagination. Hey, you want to kick up your color scheme? You know, there are over 10,000 variations of colors that the average human eye can see. And as I said before, technically black and gray aren't even actually colors. If WVU came to me for advice on the third color, I'd say, what about a small amount desaturated blue/gray like the one recently abandoned by the Seahawks? Or maybe some pale yellow trim between the navy and gold elements? Or maybe just stick with navy and god and design a better uniform around it.

At this point, in 2016, I find it impossible to believe that any good designer would arrive at the decision to add black or gray to a color scheme without fully realizing they're being completely derivative and just pandering to what's cool right now.

So, it's not just BFBS; it's a tertiary color used to enhance contrast. If anyone thought I was calling for predominantly black jerseys or pants, that was not my meaning. If you want these to be even more impactful, instead of Navy, keep Royal Blue; someone take one of these and Photoshop the Navy to royal and the contrast is even more striking.

First off, it makes my teeth ache when you say black is a "tertiary color"... I think I know what you're trying to say, but "tertiary color" is a very specific term for the three colors you get from directly mixing any two primary colors... orange, violet, and green are tertiary colors... technically, black isn't a color at all, for that matter.

Yikes, for your own good you may want to actually know what the tertiary colors are... You are completely wrong.

You just listed the secondary colors, not tertiary. And you are a professor in this?!? I hope your students aren't getting more misinformation from you.

Good God, you're right!! In my haste, I did indeed make a jackass out of myself. Ouch, again... how embarrassing. I could go back and change it, but I believe leaving it as is is pretty much exactly what I deserve! Let my shame be a lesson to us all.

[DustDevil61]

After sifting through pages of topic drift, I have yet to hear of any confirmation - or even heavy implication - that the Rams are actually introducing black into their scheme.

That said, I'm hoping they don't introduce a 3rd color in there.

[Gothamite]

No, there hasn't even been a suggestion of it. It's just a concept from one of our posters.

[bowld]

Rams holding a press conference in about 10 mins in Inglewood. Hopefully we get some clarity on the logo and uniforms

livestream if interested in watching it

http://www.foxla.com/live

[AnPheitseog]

I dont understand the issues people have with two colours.

[Rockstar Matt]

At the Rams press conference at the Forum, they showed the updated logo. It's the same the Rams have now, except the city name has been replaced with Los Angeles. Hopefully, that's a logo they'll release soon.

[Quillz]

So going back to the idea of being yellow and blue, how about a modernization of the '51 uniforms?

Though it might need to be blue horns against a yellow helmet to really complete the look.

At the Rans press conference at the Forum, they showed the updated logo. It's the same the Rams have now, except the city name has been replaced with Los Angeles. Hopefully, that's a logo they'll release soon.

That's what I figured... Was it at least recolored blue and yellow?

[bowld]

Press conference also being shown on nflnetwork

[Rockstar Matt]

So going back to the idea of being yellow and blue, how about a modernization of the '51 uniforms?

Though it might need to be blue horns against a yellow helmet to really complete the look.

At the Rans press conference at the Forum, they showed the updated logo. It's the same the Rams have now, except the city name has been replaced with Los Angeles. Hopefully, that's a logo they'll release soon.

That's what I figured... Was it at least recolored blue and yellow?

Nope, and I wouldn't expect anything new even if there is something in the works. It's too soon.

[BrandMooreArt]

i agree with the point i think you're trying to make BMA, but i think you could argue that the only thing "modern" about what they're doing, is that they're just randomly throwing BLACK in there because BLACK IS COOL AND MODERN.. but you're exactly right, i think they're trying to achieve a richer, deeper color pallete by adding additional colors that dont really muddle the look, and i guess you could say they succeeded, but i would also bet a big chunk of money that there were people who watched that game and either A) didnt notice the black at all, or just noticed something odd about the navy blue on the jersey - but without recognizing it's actually black.... which, is why i think it was ultimately done for no reason other than to get the kids excited (which is perfectly fine, especially for a one-off).. as you said, they didn't use it to enhance contrast though, which is odd, because i feel like they could've been more justified in their use by doing so.. essentially make the parts of the jersey black that have yellow embellishments, and make all the other areas navy, which i think would've accomplished both goals AND been defendable (although ugly)

agree 100%. and if they wanted to create more contrast in the uniform (for number/logo readability) they could have gone that route. but look at it this way - blue primary color (helmet, jersey, pants) with yellow secondary (logo and numbers) - starting with that, that is the WVU identity. school colors bouncing off of each other in the most traditional sense. black is then added in between the elements and is not trying to be intrusive on the core design. this is both smart (like you said a lot of people wouldn't notice and it plays to the modern look) and a bit clumsy because its basically just "fill in the panel" coloring.

i dont think any designer/manufacturer would use black and navy for contrast between elements (you're not not putting a navy number on a black jersey) but to create a "deeper" color palette. for instance, with WVU's colors, you get a wider range of value, from yellow to black rather than yellow to navy.

in that example, black being a tertiary color (not in the sense of mixing colors as OSV pointed out but as being the 3rd in the palette in hierarchy) is just that - a 3rd color. they dont use it to separate elements or make anything more readable or stand out, they use it to create a unique color palette. overall, WVU's uniform is a much more modern take on the traditional design due to it's careful use of black

I agree that WVU isn't trying to using black for contrast. As you say, they're just trying to add a twist to their traditional color scheme without changing it too much. I just think, at this point, adding black is such a lazy (I might even say chickenbleep) way of punching up your color scheme that I can't have any respect for it. It's such a cliched fall back at this point... the Detroit Lions, the Cincinnati Reds, the New York Mets, the 49ers, on and on and on... such a lack of imagination. Hey, you want to kick up your color scheme? You know, there are over 10,000 variations of colors that the average human eye can see. And as I said before, technically black and gray aren't even actually colors. If WVU came to me for advice on the third color, I'd say, what about a small amount desaturated blue/gray like the one recently abandoned by the Seahawks? Or maybe some pale yellow trim between the navy and gold elements? Or maybe just stick with navy and god and design a better uniform around it.

At this point, in 2016, I find it impossible to believe that any good designer would arrive at the decision to add black or gray to a color scheme without fully realizing they're being completely derivative and just pandering to what's cool right now.

i also agree that black and gray are the modern stand-by colors for introducing a new color to a palette and would also prefer to something else added to it - i like metallic colors personally and would like to see some bronze or silver options for the Rams. but the reason black an gray are stand-bys is 1.) neutral colors can be inserted into any color palette and work 2.) they're popular.

even black and gray have connotations that can make their use justifiable, especially when designing a certain personality or mood, but part of pandering to what's cool now, is also a small part of design. my rule of thumb is "know the trends so you can avoid them" but there are times when being trendy is the right move - as long as you continue being trendy and not think this 1 thing is going to live forever. as much as you might try for pure timelessness, another option is to design for flexibility: something that can change and evolve over time without losing its core. the Rams identity has done that as well as anyones in the NFL, but its time for another change now.

[Quillz]

So going back to the idea of being yellow and blue, how about a modernization of the '51 uniforms?

Though it might need to be blue horns against a yellow helmet to really complete the look.

At the Rans press conference at the Forum, they showed the updated logo. It's the same the Rams have now, except the city name has been replaced with Los Angeles. Hopefully, that's a logo they'll release soon.

That's what I figured... Was it at least recolored blue and yellow?

Nope, and I wouldn't expect anything new even if there is something in the works. It's too soon.

I agree. I don't think blue and yellow is going to return until 2019, to coincide with the opening of the new stadium. I also expect it will debut with a completely revised uniform. While blue and yellow is what most people in LA seem to want, I guess the Rams don't want to do a mere recoloring of what they've already got. Which is similar to what happened with the St. Louis move, they kept the old colors until 2000.

[4_tattoos]

Consider this my unpopular, but yellow jerseys with white pants is a bad look. I've stated that I'm all for the Rams wearing yellow as their primary home jersey, but I think they would look best with blue pants.