Los Angeles NFL Brands Discussion

[sky1324]

30 minutes ago, colortv said:

Am I missing something or do opposing fans not pay money? Money is what the nfl cares about. There could be 5 chargers fans in there but if the team is making money that’s all the nfl cares about. Its a for profit entertainment business not a civic institution.

Of course. You know what else makes money? Merchandise, brand deals, and PSLs. Opposing fans are not going to be paying for Chargers merchandise or PSLs, destroying two sources of great revenue and businesses are going to be hesitant to pay the Chargers to sponsor them if they can go for the more popular Rams.

[colortv]

4 minutes ago, QCS said:

Of course. You know what else makes money? Merchandise, brand deals, and PSLs. Opposing fans are not going to be paying for Chargers merchandise or PSLs, destroying two sources of great revenue and businesses are going to be hesitant to pay the Chargers to sponsor them if they can go for the more popular Rams.

Go lookup the franchise values and attendance figures of the “#2” LA teams relative to their leagues: Angels Ducks Clippers LAFC or Galaxy and give me their rankings...you two have zero conception of the market size and economics at play here.

[colortv]

For anyone saying Los Angeles isn’t a two team market the NFL has literally decades of professional studies involving researchers, accountants, analysts, lawyers and whoever else you want to name confirming it is. This is a multi billion dollar business entity who has done its due diligence, not a bunch of uniform hobbyists on a message board.

[Ridleylash]

14 minutes ago, colortv said:

Go lookup the franchise values and attendance figures of the “#2” LA teams relative to their leagues: Angels Ducks Clippers LAFC or Galaxy and give me their rankings...you two have zero conception of the market size and economics at play here.

Aight, you wanna play that game? Fine. Here's some attendance figures from ESPN;

Here's the NBA attendance for 2020 before the season died. Clippers and Lakers at 8 and 9, right next to each other.

Here's the MLB attendance from 2019. Dodgers at the top, Angels four spots behind them.

Here's the NHL attendance from before the season died. The Kings aren't filling their home rink that much more then the Ducks.

 

Here's the gulf between the Rams and Chargers. Relative to their leagues, the Chargers are bottom feeding and the Rams are right outside the top 10, ahead of markets like the Pats, Bills, Seahawks and Niners. Literally no other Big 4 league has such a disparity in their Los Angeles franchises.

 

[colortv]

1 minute ago, Ridleylash said:

Aight, you wanna play that game? Fine. Here's some attendance figures from ESPN;

Here's the NBA attendance for 2020 before the season died. Clippers and Lakers at 8 and 9, right next to each other.

Here's the MLB attendance from 2019. Dodgers at the top, Angels four spots behind them.

Here's the NHL attendance from before the season died. The Kings aren't filling their home rink that much more then the Ducks.

 

Here's the gulf between the Rams and Chargers. Relative to their leagues, the Chargers are bottom feeding and the Rams are ahead of markets like the Pats, Bills, Seahawks and Niners. Literally no other Big 4 league has such a disparity in Los Angeles.

 

I want both the franchise values and attendance figure league rankings. You are again either avoiding or incapable of understanding the Chargers capacity issue when it comes to attendance ranking, to the point of absolute absurdity. Do you understand what capacity is? I’m genuinely concerned at this point.

[colortv]

https://www.lexico.com/en/definition/capacity

[WSU151]

18 minutes ago, Ridleylash said:

Aight, you wanna play that game? Fine. Here's some attendance figures from ESPN;

Here's the NBA attendance for 2020 before the season died. Clippers and Lakers at 8 and 9, right next to each other.

Here's the MLB attendance from 2019. Dodgers at the top, Angels four spots behind them.

Here's the NHL attendance from before the season died. The Kings aren't filling their home rink that much more then the Ducks.

 

Here's the gulf between the Rams and Chargers. Relative to their leagues, the Chargers are bottom feeding and the Rams are ahead of markets like the Pats, Bills, Seahawks and Niners. Literally no other Big 4 league has such a disparity in their Los Angeles franchises.

 

 

I think the most important factor in this NFL list is % filled...where the Chargers are 117% filled.while the Rams are 92% filled. Comparing aggregate attendances isn't great when the stadiums are vastly different. If the Rams played in a soccer stadium, they'd only have 34,000 fans in attendance too. 

 

Comparing the Lakers to the Clippers and the Ducks to the Kings is fine because there's little difference in seating capacity. 

 

The stronger argument is average ticket price, where, if both teams were equal, you'd see a much higher average ticket price for the Chargers because of supply limits in the stadium. 

 

[dont care]

Tickets sold isn’t the same as attendance anyone who watched chargers games the past 3 years will tell you they weren’t full when the road team fans didn’t travel

[IceCap]

21 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

I think the most important factor in this NFL list is % filled...where the Chargers are 117% filled.while the Rams are 92% filled. Comparing aggregate attendances isn't great when the stadiums are vastly different. If the Rams played in a soccer stadium, they'd only have 34,000 fans in attendance too. 

 

2 minutes ago, dont care said:

Tickets sold isn’t the same as attendance anyone who watched chargers games the past 3 years will tell you they weren’t full when the road team fans didn’t travel

Yep. 

 

There's still no answer for the Chargers'

slumping PSLs in LA either. 

[dont care]

And you keep going on about how much it is worth to be the number 2 team in LA when that’s not true when that team is the charger. Currently they are the 21th in net worth at 2.5B, compared to the Rams who are 4th nearly doubling the chargers net worth at 3.8B

 

https://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/list/

[colortv]

21 minutes ago, dont care said:

And you keep going on about how much it is worth to be the number 2 team in LA when that’s not true when that team is the charger. Currently they are the 21th in net worth at 2.5B, compared to the Rams who are 4th nearly doubling the chargers net worth at 3.8B

 

https://www.forbes.com/nfl-valuations/list/

This is a multi billion dollar business proposition which will play out and be evaluated over decades. You don’t determine whether it’s a success based on a couple of years. 

[sky1324]

1 hour ago, colortv said:

Go lookup the franchise values and attendance figures of the “#2” LA teams relative to their leagues: Angels Ducks Clippers LAFC or Galaxy and give me their rankings...you two have zero conception of the market size and economics at play here.

I believe the one lacking an understanding of the market forces at play is you. Yes, the Chargers are exceeding capacity at their 27,000 seat stadium. How many of those people are their fans? How many will buy PSLs? The Chargers have been getting killed by the Rams in the PSL department (as well as most other teams) which is where a significant amount of money comes from.

 

58 minutes ago, colortv said:

This is a multi billion dollar business proposition which will play out and be evaluated over decades. You don’t determine whether it’s a success based on a couple of years. 

Yes we can. When the Rams jumped from 28th in the NFL worth $1.45 billion to 6th at $2.9 billion (jumping 22 spots and gaining literally double their previous worth) but the Chargers barely went up from when they played in San Diego, something isn't right here. They went from worth $2.08 billion in 2016 (their last year in SD) to $2.275 billion in 2017 (their first year in LA), gaining only $0.195 billion when the Rams literally doubled in value. That shouldn't ever happen to a team moving to LOS ANGELES, of all places. Even then, let's look at the 2020 valuations, four years after the Rams' move and 3 after the Chargers'. The Rams are now worth $3.8 billion, good for 4th in the NFL and an increase of $2.35 billion while the Chargers (who play in the same market) are worth $2.5 billion, good for 21st in the NFL and an increase of about $0.42 billion (and for the record, the Panthers gained about the same amount of worth). It's almost like NFL franchises increase in value anyway! The Los Angeles Chargers are worth less than teams like the Ravens and Colts, who I wouldn't exactly call "large-market" teams. The Rams, in the same market, with only a year head-start, are worth $1.3 billion more than their tenants. Why do you think that is?

[dont care]

1 hour ago, colortv said:

This is a multi billion dollar business proposition which will play out and be evaluated over decades. You don’t determine whether it’s a success based on a couple of years. 

You say that like the chargers will still be in LA for a decade.

[Sec19Row53]

3 hours ago, Carolingian Steamroller said:

Any Packer fans want to comment?

Sure - about what?  It's great not having a douchenozzle owner interfere. Of course, we have had some poor Executives interfere in the past.

 

There's no worry about the team being sold and moved. However, if Bob Harlan hadn't spearheaded the renovation of Lambeau in 1994, there were concerns that the team could have run out of money. That time would appear to be gone.

NFL Bylaws don't allow for an ownership structure like the Packers have. Yes, they could change the rules, but I don't really know why they would. The time that they might is when enough old owners die, and no one in their family has the financial wherewithal to afford the team. There could then become a situation where teams are available, but they won't sell at the perceived market value.  Something is only worth what someone is willing to pay, and the NFL (all sports franchises, just ask the Arena Football League) wouldn't like to admit that franchise value is decreasing or has decreased.

[AndrewMLind]

Hey Rams, it’s May. Let’s get this thread talking about uniforms again.

 

That said, I hope the Chargers keep their uniforms and overall branding when they eventually move out of Los Angeles. Would be a shame to see the colors, fonts and overall “unmistakable vibe that’s unique to Los Angeles” go by the wayside. 

[Wentz2Jeffery]

19 minutes ago, AndrewMLind said:

Hey Rams, it’s May. Let’s get this thread talking about uniforms again.

 

Whats the point of even waiting until May to release the uniforms anyway?

[Ridleylash]

2 minutes ago, Wentz2Jeffery said:

Whats the point of even waiting until May to release the uniforms anyway?

They want to build hype, even though we're all dreading what we actually get.

[AndrewMLind]

6 minutes ago, Wentz2Jeffery said:

 

Whats the point of even waiting until May to release the uniforms anyway?

When I spoke with their creative team, they claimed they wanted to space out the logo release, uniform unveiling and stadium opening to have multiple “splashes” and “bites at the apple” from an attention standpoint.

[4_tattoos]

28 minutes ago, AndrewMLind said:

Hey Rams, it’s May. Let’s get this thread talking about uniforms again.

 

That said, I hope the Chargers keep their uniforms and overall branding when they eventually move out of Los Angeles. Would be a shame to see the colors, fonts and overall “unmistakable vibe that’s unique to Los Angeles” go by the wayside. 

Plot twist: The Rams wait until May 31st at 11:59 PM PST to unveil their new uniforms

[raz]

6 hours ago, auguststaley said:

Paul Lukas said there's likely such a cutoff, but he doesn't know how long the time period is. For example, in a Uni-Watch blog this week, Lukas noted the Patriots new uniforms are different than what was on a proof six months ago.

This from the guy who said there was no orange on the new Buccaneers uniform!