Los Angeles NFL Brands Discussion

[Ridleylash]

5 hours ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

Also, lol at that guy calling the Picasso Coyotes sweater simple. The exact opposite was the point!

They are, though. The Kachina jerseys are "simple" in that they're focused. They had a simple concept; the sport of hockey meets Arizona design, and they then executed that concept with few unconventional design elements that were well thought-out. Hence, simple. It's not overly-thought out, not justified with endless fluff about "looking like the deserts of Phoenix". The amount of unconventional design elements is pretty low; it's mostly the small changes to the shape of their hem and cuff striping. Otherwise, they're pretty damned tame aesthetically.

They're still pretty common at games and they've become fandom darlings, so much so that I wouldn't be surprised if the team rebrands to them at some point; and that's because they're lasting and they leave a strong impression; so much so that they've exited the sphere of hockey;

Here's a rapper (Joey Bada$$, who's from Brooklyn and thus probably didn't grow up wearing these) wearing the Kachinas. A Starter Kachina, at that, not a Reebok or Adidas Kachina. The look clearly penetrates beyond the sphere of hockey, which is why I think it'll be a matter of time before the Coyotes go back to it full-time.

 

The Rams didn't focus on diddly-squat besides "old colors". They went went too abstract and tried too hard to tie things to LA (the whole spiel about "the beaches of LA" is a prime example) instead of just..."what looks the best". And that's where they failed. LA fans don't care about a team "looking like the sunny beaches of Los Angeles", they just care if that team's stuff looks good to wear.

All of their "bone" merchandise will just look like dirty white, which already means they've handicapped themselves there because who the hell wants to walk around looking like they're wearing an article of clothing they haven't washed in weeks? The Rams' rebrand is at best contentious amongst fans (having peeked into their subreddit, it's not pretty).

 

The fans wanted the throwbacks. What they got was something nobody wanted besides the colors.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

54 minutes ago, IceCap said:

I guess I'm just tired of seeing the same thing play out? 

 

The Buffaslug, any of Nike's crappy college unis, the Bucs, Jags, Browns...you can name any number of bad uniforms people here have only "liked" because they felt the need to defend their team on the internet. 

And you also have people who feel the need to champion stuff like this because it's "new," "the future," or whatnot. And none of it lasts. None of it. The Rams will be in some variation of their classic look in 5-10 years and this discussion will just seem silly. 

 

Fact is trends don't equate to design evolution, and classic looks always cycle back into style. 

 

I've seen this exact same discussion play out across countless uniform unveilings and I'm just pointing out trends. 

 

I have no doubt the Rams will revert. None at all. And the very nature of fashion -- which is different than sports design -- is it's temporary.

 

I'm not arguing the Rams should have a timeless design; that's not important to me. I also don't think that was one of their design criteria (in a way I bet the Sabres thought about the slug).

 

Should football uniforms be timeless? I don't know. Most NBA uniforms aren't. Most soccer uniforms aren't. Most NCAA football uniforms aren't.

 

Nike is clearly and deliberately creating disposable teamwear because that is better for sales potential. Their NBA and soccer offerings are clear examples of this and I would expect to see more frequent NFL redesigns as we move forward.

 

Is that progress good or bad? I don't know. A mix of both, probably. The Dolphins and Rams will modify their designs every other season while the Packers and Raiders stay the same. Which is fine! Everything doesn't have to be for everybody.

 

Taken on its own, and separate from any existential concerns about the nature of football uniforms design, I think the Rams jersey looks fine. And I think the Falcons jersey looks fine. They'll be around for however many years and will be replaced by either something old or something old-inspired. That's how it always goes.
 

But I think discounting and reducing people's actual enjoyment of something because you think it's just contrarian or not serious isn't fair.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

1 hour ago, Ridleylash said:

They are, though. The Kachina jerseys are "simple" in that they're focused. They had a simple concept; the sport of hockey meets Arizona design, and they then executed that concept with few unconventional design elements that were well thought-out. Hence, simple. It's not overly-thought out, not justified with endless fluff about "looking like the deserts of Phoenix". The amount of unconventional design elements is pretty low; it's mostly the small changes to the shape of their hem and cuff striping. Otherwise, they're pretty damned tame aesthetically.

They're still pretty common at games and they've become fandom darlings, so much so that I wouldn't be surprised if the team rebrands to them at some point; and that's because they're lasting and they leave a strong impression; so much so that they've exited the sphere of hockey;

Here's a rapper (Joey Bada$$, who's from Brooklyn and thus probably didn't grow up wearing these) wearing the Kachinas. A Koho Kachina, at that, not a Reebok or Adidas Kachina. The look clearly penetrates beyond the sphere of hockey, which is why I think it'll be a matter of time before the Coyotes go back to it full-time.

 

The Rams didn't focus on diddly-squat besides "old colors". They went went too abstract and tried too hard to tie things to LA (the whole spiel about "the beaches of LA" is a prime example) instead of just..."what looks the best". And that's where they failed. LA fans don't care about a team "looking like the sunny beaches of Los Angeles", they just care if that team's stuff looks good to wear.

All of their "bone" merchandise will just look like dirty white, which already means they've handicapped themselves there because who the hell wants to walk around looking like they're wearing an article of clothing they haven't washed in weeks? The Rams' rebrand is at best contentious amongst fans (having peeked into their subreddit, it's not pretty).

 

The fans wanted the throwbacks. What they got was something nobody wanted besides the colors.

 

1. That's just not how those jerseys were presented in the mid-90s, but I'm glad you like them.

 

2. Some people want to wear those jerseys. Not you, but others.

 

3. I've never been persuaded by overuse or underlines and italics.

[The_Admiral]

1 hour ago, Ridleylash said:

Here's a rapper (Joey Bada$$

 

 

[Sodboy13]

Also, that's not KOHO, that's Starter.

[joekono]

On 5/14/2020 at 9:19 AM, Digby said:

 

This is what I've been saying, and why I was really surprised the Chargers kept a royal blue alt (it's not as if they needed another shade of blue!). Even if their primary is a touch lighter shade. Same general color scheme, same reliance on semi-circular helmet logos as a primary branding element. Just kind of odd.

I agree, but hopefully they won't wear the royal set(although it is nice too)as much and take on their powder blue identity.

[joekono]

Has it really gotten this bad with the money grab? Are some teams knowingly putting out awful uniforms because they will change them again in five years? The Bucs and Jags were a joke, especially the Bucs and have now just gone back to set close to the Super Bowl set. I've had a few days to digest(and throw up) but how the hell did the Rams allow this. I've read everyone's posts since they came out and although I'm not up there in posts, I've been a member a long time and respect most opinions. There are so many valid opinions that I can't point them all out. Collectively, I think it's safe to say this uniform set is one of the worst ever especially because it's a team with a long identity and history and they screwed it up.

[Old School Fool]

It says alot that the Rams didn't touch the horn on the helmet when they redesigned in 2000. Everybody was changing in sports and messing around at that time, but the Rams held onto their helmet regardless of anything. I like the new helmet but it's still stupid that they changed it.

[Discrim]

After taking a look...the only good thing I can really say is they chose the right colors.  I think it's fair to say the Rams almost completely botched this one otherwise.  It feels like they simultaneously put too much and too little thought into this uniform set...as in apparently so many ideas that they forgot to make the damn thing look good.  Honestly, recoloring the St. Louis logos and uniforms and just sticking with gold pants would've been a better choice, but what do I know, I'm not a multibillionaire

[SFGiants58]

11 hours ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

1. That's just not how those jerseys were presented in the mid-90s, but I'm glad you like them.

 

2. Some people want to wear those jerseys. Not you, but others.

 

3. I've never been persuaded by overuse or underlines and italics.

I think Ridleydash has far more of a good point than you’re willing to give him credit for here. The Coyotes developed a cohesive and aesthetically-appropriate identity for the area. The Rams tried to do something similar, but the execution fell pretty flat. I’m not fully on the “hate train” compared to the people here doing their best Comic Book Guy impression, but even I would say it’s a bottom-five look in the NFL.

 

We get that you like the bone jersey for your reasons. Don’t make us seem like we’re just some simple-minded doofuses who “don’t get it.” 

[WSU151]

13 hours ago, Ridleylash said:

 

Canucks gradient vs Islanders fisherman?

 

Where the hell is my time machine...

[FinsUp1214]

13 hours ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

I get the idea that streetwear and on-field uniforms should be different....but that horse is long out of the barn. Authentic stuff sells better than fashion designs because, at the core, we want to wear what the players wear. And if what the players wear is a little more fashion-forward than it was a year prior? That's just a bonus. Merchandising opportunities are just too big to not at least take the chance on something a little bit different.

That’s kind of the heart of the problem I see, though: the gray jersey isn’t just a little fashion-forward, it went all-in on fashion-forward. The design’s balance is far too skewed toward fashion-forward. If you are going to attempt to cater to both retail and on-field, you’ve got to strike a healthy balance between the two (and erring to one side is only going to be safe if it’s towards on-field, because that’s your primary client/user no matter how many jerseys are bought). Brandon pointed out the Alouettes, and that’s an excellent case study in how to do a brand like that right. I’m sorry but in my opinion, the Rams absolutely botched it. 

[1908_Cubs]

16 hours ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

All I'm saying is that people who are old enough to remember the dark color fads of the late 90s might not be the best arbiters of what today's style trends are.

Have you ever gone back and watched movies from 15-20 years ago?  Maybe even a little older?  I'm sure you have...we all have.  Maybe it was a movie that you liked back then, or maybe it's just a movie you've heard great things about and wanted to give it a try.  As you watch them, you realize that there are some movies that really tried to take the moment and run with it.  And at the time, 15-20 years ago...it may have been damn funny.  You could think "yeah, that's how the world works!"  The problem is that these movies that try to "capture the moment" and make pop culture references die a very fast, and quick death.  It no longer makes sense as the moment is gone and it doesn't make sense any more.  And yet there are other movies, such as "It's A Wonderful Life" or "Ferris Bueller" that live on, and on, and on.  You don't have to like them per se, but those movies will always endure.  Why?  They don't try to live in the moment.  They capture feelings and moments that span across moments.  We all feel like the world ignores us, and we've all wanted to skip school and be the cool, popular kid. 

 

I bring that up because trends exist across mediums.  Uniforms like what the Rams just dropped, will almost assuredly die a fast death.  As did the Buccaneers, and the Jaguars and the Browns...because when you try to capture the more recent trends, you realize that they'll date themselves quickly.  It doesn't mean you have to always go classic...but it's why the "trendier" uniforms die far more often.  When you live in the moment, you forget that the moment will soon pass.  I think where uniforms like the Jade/Eggplant uniforms of the Mighty Ducks have managed to survive as "classics" was because they may have capitalized on things like "purple and green being cool" but were able to implant them into kids feelings with the movie tie ins.  The Kachinas are actually fairly simply outside of the Kachina pattern.  It's one funky thing on a uniform that pretty much conforms to tradition.  It doesn't go overboard with throwing everything in.  I also think the Ducks and the Coyotes uniforms both live on as classics because neither team had classic looks to fall back on, as well, and neither have followed up with a better look.  The Rams don't fall into any of those categories.  They had a great look in their closet, they don't have a cute 90's movie tie in (man, I'm all about the cinema in this post, aren't I?) and they went far too hodge-podge on the trend catching.  

 

The Rams attempting to make a uniform that looks good with jeans, using gradient numbers, and "modernizing" the look will die a quick death.  Perhaps in 25 years we'll look back on these bone uniforms in the same vein as the Kings Burger-King looks as fun one-off reminders, but I don't think we're seeing a modern form of the Kachina here.  We're seeing a curiosity.  And one that's almost assuredly going to pass.  The Raiders are always going to look good.  The Rams could always look good.  But I'll predict that it won't be because of this set...but the next one.  You know, the one that we'll hear about them "going back to basics" and how "clean" it is.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

3 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

I think Ridleydash has far more of a good point than you’re willing to give him credit for here. The Coyotes developed a cohesive and aesthetically-appropriate identity for the area. The Rams tried to do something similar, but the execution fell pretty flat. I’m not fully on the “hate train” compared to the people here doing their best Comic Book Guy impression, but even I would say it’s a bottom-five look in the NFL.

 

We get that you like the bone jersey for your reasons. Don’t make us seem like we’re just some simple-minded doofuses who “don’t get it.” 

 

I think you're arguing with someone else because I didn't say any of those things. I never said the 90s Coyotes were bad, only that they weren't simple. I never said people who don't like the Rams bone jersey are simple-minded doofuses, just that I think they're interesting and of the moment for particular reasons.

 

IceCap said a bit ago that he and I were talking past each other and I didn't think so then, but I do now.

 

Just because I think the Rams' bone jersey (and really, only the retail one) looks nice in 2020 doesn't mean that I also think any contrary opinion is wrong or that I think they should keep that uniform for forever. I just like it right now is all. Dang.

 

[guest23]

8 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

I think you're arguing with someone else because I didn't say any of those things. I never said the 90s Coyotes were bad, only that they weren't simple. I never said people who don't like the Rams bone jersey are simple-minded doofuses, just that I think they're interesting and of the moment for particular reasons.

 

IceCap said a bit ago that he and I were talking past each other and I didn't think so then, but I do now.

 

Just because I think the Rams' bone jersey (and really, only the retail one) looks nice in 2020 doesn't mean that I also think any contrary opinion is wrong or that I think they should keep that uniform for forever. I just like it right now is all. Dang.

 

 

If the rams wanted an Off-White uniform they should have hired Virgil Abloh to design an alt/color rush uniform instead of boning their away uniforms with this mess of a uniform redesign.

[SFGiants58]

19 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

I think you're arguing with someone else because I didn't say any of those things. I never said the 90s Coyotes were bad, only that they weren't simple. I never said people who don't like the Rams bone jersey are simple-minded doofuses, just that I think they're interesting and of the moment for particular reasons.

 

I got that implication a bit. I apologize if I read it incorrectly.

 

19 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

IceCap said a bit ago that he and I were talking past each other and I didn't think so then, but I do now.

 

Just because I think the Rams' bone jersey (and really, only the retail one) looks nice in 2020

 

Except it doesn't look nice as a retail item, especially with the off-white and white clashing. Mixing those two shades will invariably look awful, but that's an opinion informed by my experience.

 

19 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

doesn't mean that I also think any contrary opinion is wrong or that I think they should keep that uniform for forever. I just like it right now is all. Dang.

 

 

It's perfectly fine for you to like it. It's also fine for many of us to express our distaste for it without doing lazy **** like "it's so fire emoji" or dunking on it for easy karma. I maintain that it's better than the Falcons' mess of number font and gradient jersey (underdesigned and overdesigned), the Titans' trash heap, the Pats' confusion (silver pants would be nice) and the Cardinals/Bengals' junk. It's still pretty terrible, but in a way that we can see redemption. The off-white road jersey is part of what drags the set down. It would have been better as an alternate, much like the Seahawks grey set.

 

I apologize that I got a little angsty. 

[ramsker]

13 hours ago, Discrim said:

After taking a look...the only good thing I can really say is they chose the right colors.  I think it's fair to say the Rams almost completely botched this one otherwise.  It feels like they simultaneously put too much and too little thought into this uniform set...as in apparently so many ideas that they forgot to make the damn thing look good.  Honestly, recoloring the St. Louis logos and uniforms and just sticking with gold pants would've been a better choice, but what do I know, I'm not a multibillionaire

 

They came close to the correct colors. To me, they are much to bright, especially the yellow. I feel like it's a Lakers' Gold Pt. 2.

 

Seems like that's Nike style. Highlighter bold and bright colors to make you notice them. I find it off-putting. 

 

[_DietDrPepper_]

4 minutes ago, ramsker said:

 

They came close to the correct colors. To me, they are much to bright, especially the yellow. I feel like it's a Lakers' Gold Pt. 2.

 

Seems like that's Nike style. Highlighter bold and bright colors to make you notice them. I find it off-putting. 

 

That era of Lakers uniforms with the Nike mark is so off putting

[Pizzaman7294]

On 5/15/2020 at 6:08 PM, IceCap said:

I disagree. In part because I have an issue with designing uniforms to cater to the "will it go with my khakis?" crowd. That's the sort of thinking that got everyone to darken their colours in the late 90s/2000s.

 

I'm also opposed to the idea just based on...principle I guess? If I'm buying a jersey with the intent to wear it? How well it matches the rest of my outfit shouldn't be a concern.

I'm committing to buying and wearing a LA Rams jersey. I want it to look like the LA Rams. Not like it was designed to go with my khakis and navy polo. 

 

Eh...I disagree. Many posters have pointed out that these uniforms have design elements lifted from the Off White clothing brand, which is a brand Nike does a lot of work with. 

 

Slightly different, but I buy a lot of Vikings black shirts and jackets because purple is sometimes obnoxious and doesnt go with a lot. But that doesnt necessarily mean I want the Vikings to have a black uniform. 

[Pizzaman7294]

On 5/15/2020 at 3:06 PM, oldschoolvikings said:

Still...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Titans are worse.

 

Actually a fair point.