Feedback Wanted on New Megathread/Unveiling Thread Policy

[officeglenn]

Now that the spate of NFL unveilings for 2020 has wrapped up, the moderating team has been contemplating a new policy regarding logo/uniform unveiling threads, and we wanted to put it to the boards in general to gather feedback. 

 

The TL;DR of it is that, for the most part, we want to curb league-wide megathreads in the Sports Logos News. They have proven difficult to moderate and conversation often veers way off-topic when there hasn't been any news or leaks for a while. At least for the Big 4 North American leagues, we are aiming to have threads be team-specific, focused, and based on credible information.

 

And I can hear it now: The boards are over-moderated as it is, why do we need this, etc. Really, it makes our jobs as moderators easier if we have something we can point to when we're trying to keep the boards organized, focused and enjoyable.

 

Anyway, have a read of the draft policy below and let us know here in this thread if you have any questions or suggestions before noon MT on Friday, May 22.

 

==========

 

1. Threads in Sports Logos News regarding new logos for or the rebranding of a professional sports team at any level or location should be focused only on that specific team. These threads may also cover discussion around new uniforms for that team, as those often go hand-in-hand. These threads must start with a report or piece of information from a source outside the CCSLC.
    
2. Threads in Sports Logos News regarding new uniforms utilizing existing logos for teams in any of the Big 4 North American professional sports leagues (MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA) should be focused on one specific team. These threads must start with a report or piece of information from a source outside the CCSLC.
    
3. Threads in Sports Logos News regarding new uniforms utilizing existing logos for teams outside the Big 4 North American professional sports leagues (MLB, NFL, NHL, NBA) may cover several teams at once. These threads must start with a report or piece of information from a source outside the CCSLC.
    
4. Threads in Sports Logos News regarding special event uniforms/logos (eg. MLB Players’ Weekend), a series of alternate or specialty uniforms or apparel (eg. NBA City uniforms, MLB spring training uniforms, NFL draft caps), or uniforms that change frequently (eg. MLS or European soccer leagues) may cover several teams at once. These threads must start with a report or piece of information from a source outside the CCSLC.
    
5. Moderators may, at their discretion, merge, split, move or lock threads to keep discussions focused and the boards uncluttered.
    
6. Threads in Sports Logos News may not be started based on speculation or general questions about potential uniform changes long before any rumours or information are available. Speculative discussions or general questions may be placed in Sports Logos General Discussion.
    
7. Graphic mockups may be presented in Sports Logos News threads to better illustrate points around potential uniform changes. (eg. “The Chargers are rumoured to be going with powder blue facemasks; here’s how that would look” or “The Patriots are rumoured to going with red-blue-red shoulder stripes on their white jerseys; I think blue-red-blue would work better and here’s how that would look.”) Moderators may, at their discretion, remove any graphics or links to graphics that are not relevant to the discussion; this includes, but is not limited to, concepts that aren’t mockups of the actual logo or uniform or the rumored details.
    
8. Sports Logo News threads focused on a specific team as outlined above will remain open for discussion to continue after the teams unveils its new name/logos/uniforms, but will be merged with the thread containing the SportsLogos.net article on the unveiling, with the title of the latter being retained. These threads will be locked roughly two weeks after the unveiling, or sooner if moderators determine the conversation is veering too far off-track.
    
9. Once a team has started playing games in their new uniforms, a new thread focused on how they look in action may be started in Sports Logos General Discussion.

[LAWeaver]

Personally, I think these changes are much needed, although they may take a little time getting used to for those of us who have been around awhile. 

 

The line between Sports Logos News and Discussion has become so blurred that every time I open the NFL Changes 2020 thread, I'm greeted with discussions about "wouldn't it be great if Team X had this look (posts concept)" or "Players at this position should wear this number set or this number", etc. It became so diluted that whenever a team was about to introduce something new, that thread would blow up over the most random of things unrelated to the topic at hand. It got to the point in that and other "news" threads where I hated opening that part of the forum because I knew nothing of value was being added. I mention the NFL Changes thread specifically but I've noticed it in the other major league's respective threads as well. 

 

I'm fine with the minor league and college news, discussions, and others being lumped into a megathread. Not a lot of discussion takes place in those threads and nothing seems to get lost that way. 

 

In my opinion, I think the SportsLogos.Net News Bot needs to be addressed. Personally, I don't recall a situation in which the bot has added anything of value. Sometimes the discussion on that topic has been ongoing for several weeks or more before the bot posts in another separate thread, only to be seen by maybe a dozen people. I understand that those threads may end up being merged in the larger threads later, but it seems like it adds a lot of clutter to the News section. Merging them into the larger threads seems redundant at times as well as the source of the news has, in more times than not, been posted already. That's not to say I don't understand the bot's purpose, because I do. It just comes across as redundant and unnecessary at times, but perhaps that's for another time/thread. 

 

I know some may not be big fans of splitting News/Discussion in the first place, but I think it has helped keep the Sports Logos section clear of unnecessary clutter. Doing this will help alleviate even more clutter, in my opinion, and maybe bring more people to the Sports Logos General Discussion section. 

[CS85]

Yes to all of these.  500+ page threads (and other similar ilk) that take convoluted journeys through different subjects shouldn't happen.

[AnPheitseog]

I do like all of these.

 

 

EDIT: Looks like this sentence is actually a modification of #9. Think the discussion should be per league per season.

Perhaps allow a general season discussion thread in Sports Logos Discussion to discuss on field/new thoughts or so.

 

 

[Olmec]

Yes to all these. The most recent examples being the Rams and NFL changes threads have demonstrated the need for an overhaul. 

[monkeypower]

I agree with @LAWeaver, the bot posting the articles from the site needs to be tweaked in some form. The bot is usually posting a new thread for something that is already being discussed in whatever thread has previously been created for the subject. Through no fault of what Chris, or any of the other writers, are doing (because I know how much time it takes to write an article and the articles are for the mothership, not for the boards), but whatever tweet or release is being written apart in the article has already been posted (multiple times usually) in the thread designated for the item. All the bot does is create an extra thread that gets only a couple posts before eventually getting merged into the main thread.

 

(Having a combined Rams and Chargers thread was always going to be a mistake though)

[officeglenn]

1 hour ago, _J_ said:

I do like all of these.

 

EDIT: Looks like this sentence is actually a modification of #9. Think the discussion should be per league per season.

Perhaps allow a general season discussion thread in Sports Logos Discussion to discuss on field/new thoughts or so.

 

For the sake of clarity, I would lean toward those Discussion threads once teams start playing in their new uniforms being team-specific, or at least following the same basic outlines as the News threads. Just so things don't get too jumbled. However, personally, if a league-wide thread was started, I wouldn't nuke it right away, but if it did get jumbled, I would start splitting it into new threads.

 

6 minutes ago, monkeypower said:

I agree with @LAWeaver, the bot posting the articles from the site needs to be tweaked in some form. The bot is usually posting a new thread for something that is already being discussed in whatever thread has previously been created for the subject. Through no fault of what Chris, or any of the other writers, are doing (because I know how much time it takes to write an article and the articles are for the mothership, not for the boards), but whatever tweet or release is being written apart in the article has already been posted (multiple times usually) in the thread designated for the item. All the bot does is create an extra thread that gets only a couple posts before eventually getting merged into the main thread.

 

(Having a combined Rams and Chargers thread was always going to be a mistake though)

 

While I agree about the bot, I don't think there's much we as mods can do about it -- it comes from above us. That said, I think we as mods have done our best to merge those into existing threads as soon as possible, and that may have continue going forward as it's the best solution we have.

[Sec19Row53]

3 hours ago, officeglenn said:

1. 1. Threads in Sports Logos News regarding new logos for or the rebranding of a professional sports team at any level or location should be focused only on that specific team. These threads may also cover discussion around new uniforms for that team, as those often go hand-in-hand. These threads must start with a report or piece of information from a source outside the CCSLC.
2. 6. Threads in Sports Logos News may not be started based on speculation or general questions about potential uniform changes long before any rumours or information are available. Speculative discussions or general questions may be placed in Sports Logos General Discussion.

Sorry - I deleted bullets 2 through 5, but your auto-bullets don't let me fix them.

 

6 doesn't add anything to the conversation, other than explicitly mentioning rumors. If you deleted it, the rules wouldn't change.

 

I suggest deleting 6, and commenting about rumors not cutting it in 1.

 

With that said, the rush to comment on whoever the team to change in 2021 could only start with a rumor found elsewhere, correct? Does it need to be pointed out that one better not link to one's own Twitter feed to start a rumor for these purposes

[DG_ThenNowForever]

My reactions:

 

1. Good to have separate threads for each team as they're developing new looks.

 

2. Season-long threads will still be valuable to contain general discussion after everything is unveiled and the season is underway.

 

3. News and Discussion forums should be merged.

 

For what it's worth, I'm not a person who sorts or deletes my email, so I'm a person who prefers less organization than more.

[OnWis97]

I think it would be OK if this was the primary rule:

 

4 hours ago, officeglenn said:

1. Moderators may, at their discretion, merge, split, move or lock threads to keep discussions focused and the boards uncluttered.

I generally like the rules.  I'm not crystal clear on what this means for the minutiae of the season threads.  For example, the "MLB changes" threads will get into a team wearing its BP cap in a game or adding a memorial patch or something.  I assume this will still occur, in which case, I think these threads will still run wild. But I do like the idea of not getting into the Falcons overhaul in the "2020 NFL Season" thread...I like the team specific threads for significant changes made in the offseason. 

But no specific rule listed seems like a problem to me, with the exception of #8/9...I'd personally prefer the team-specific new uniform thread to go into the season...or, rather, to last until it's run its course one way or the other.  But I can't imagine myself ever worrying about that again...

[officeglenn]

6 minutes ago, OnWis97 said:

I generally like the rules.  I'm not crystal clear on what this means for the minutiae of the season threads.  For example, the "MLB changes" threads will get into a team wearing its BP cap in a game or adding a memorial patch or something.  I assume this will still occur, in which case, I think these threads will still run wild. But I do like the idea of not getting into the Falcons overhaul in the "2020 NFL Season" thread...I like the team specific threads for significant changes made in the offseason. 

But no specific rule listed seems like a problem to me, with the exception of #8/9...I'd personally prefer the team-specific new uniform thread to go into the season...or, rather, to last until it's run its course one way or the other.  But I can't imagine myself ever worrying about that again...

 

Now that you mention the "minutiae of the season," perhaps it would be better to have league-wide threads per season in the Discussion forum. Those threads could encompass both how the new, pre-announced uniforms look in action, as well as small, spur-of-the-moment changes like teams wearing BP caps in a game.

[officeglenn]

1 hour ago, Sec19Row53 said:

6 doesn't add anything to the conversation, other than explicitly mentioning rumors. If you deleted it, the rules wouldn't change.

 

I suggest deleting 6, and commenting about rumors not cutting it in 1.

 

With that said, the rush to comment on whoever the team to change in 2021 could only start with a rumor found elsewhere, correct? Does it need to be pointed out that one better not link to one's own Twitter feed to start a rumor for these purposes

 

I wrote #6 into the policy to try and spell out in black and white what should go where. While omitting it wouldn't change the rules, I think including it gives another point of clarification on what goes where.

And yes, the spirit of it is that the information to start a thread should come from a trusted, reliable source outside the boards (I would include the SportsLogos.net News Bot as one of those). I guess it would be up to the moderating team to suss out and shut down threads started with unreliable or self-aggrandizing information such as one's own Twitter feed.

[MDGP]

1 hour ago, officeglenn said:

 

Now that you mention the "minutiae of the season," perhaps it would be better to have league-wide threads per season in the Discussion forum. Those threads could encompass both how the new, pre-announced uniforms look in action, as well as small, spur-of-the-moment changes like teams wearing BP caps in a game.

 

Honestly, I think this would be the best option. Keeping the team specific threads in the news section and keep it tightly on topic (specific conversations about release dates, instant reactions, updates, etc.), and then have a larger one in discussions that can be a bit more generalized and open ended for when we want to talk about them in the dead periods. I feel like with that arrangement even if a megathread does get a bit off topic, it shouldn't be a problem because the actual news would have its own specific thread in the actual news section.

 

Sort of on the same topic, one of the things that frustrates me in threads and creates clutter is every single time new news is released, the thread will then be followed by a multi-page discussion that recaps all the pieces of information into a list. I'm wondering if it would be possible to come up with a system that would compile all the previous news we have heard into a single post that would be added on to over time citing where the rumor came from and the date? I think of it something like how in some of the templates threads, newer added templates would be linked to on the first post.

If it's a dumb idea, that's cool. Just kinda spitballing ideas to keep things a bit more efficient and less crowded.

 

 

[DG_ThenNowForever]

I kind of think efficiency is an unreachable goal for something like a message board forum. Yeah, you can sticky everything to an OP, but if we're on page 200, are you supposed to read page 1 each time you post?

[officeglenn]

24 minutes ago, MDGP said:

Sort of on the same topic, one of the things that frustrates me in threads and creates clutter is every single time new news is released, the thread will then be followed by a multi-page discussion that recaps all the pieces of information into a list. I'm wondering if it would be possible to come up with a system that would compile all the previous news we have heard into a single post that would be added on to over time citing where the rumor came from and the date? I think of it something like how in some of the templates threads, newer added templates would be linked to on the first post.

If it's a dumb idea, that's cool. Just kinda spitballing ideas to keep things a bit more efficient and less crowded.

 

It's a good idea, but I'm not sure it's a feasible idea. I mean, ideally that post would be the first in the thread, so it would have to be a mod or the OP editing that post manually to compile the new info. I don't think there would be a way to do it automatically. And I know there are tidbits of info that I've personally missed, so I feel like it would be difficult for anyone to stay on top of.

[BBTV]

First, good on you guys for asking for feedback before just doing things.  

 

I hate megathreads, and like the spirit of these new guidelines, especially regarding the concepts, with the following minor notes:

 

1. not sure I see the need to shut down an unveiling thread two weeks after the actual unveiling, and then forcing for there to be a new thread in a whole different forum to be created to discuss the real-life new uniform.  

• There's going to be valid stuff to discuss longer than a few weeks from the unveiling, for example, once replicas start getting shipped, if we start seeing them in minicamps and notice something we missed, if the patriots actually do have gray pants and just forgot to unveil them, etc. 
• The threads just die on their own, there's no need to assist the death.  Seems like adding unnecessary work for no benefit.
  • Though the Jets one was a little absurd - so maybe a year?  But making a rule for something that's happened like once might be a little excessive.
  • The Bucs and Patriots threads are already nearly off the first page.  They'll certainly be brought back and probably bumped periodically through the season, but then history shows they'll fade away and not interfere with any 2021 stuff.  Again, the Jets is the exception.
• It's already a little confusing to know what belongs in "general discussion".  You could go through and make a case for threads in either forum to go to the other.  It'll be even more confusing if I'm talking about the Patriots in Sports Logos one day, and then need to remember to look in General Discussion the next day.  Overall, I think General Discussion is really unnecessary, but at the very least, if we're talking about what is still a new uniform, I'm not sure why it would be moved.  Again, unnecessary work for no gain.

 

 

2. What if there's league-wide things like new templates, or something like all the rumors that came with the EDGE hockey system?  Things like talking about if unfiforms are going to require front numbers next year, or have ad patches, or other league-wide (or at least multiple-team spanning) changes might warrant megathreads, but obviously they'd need to be focused and then possibly split as teams actually release things.  

• Not sure how often this would actually happen, and I'm too lazy / apathetic to go back and look, so it's probably not even a big enough deal to think hard about.  Just let common sense prevail.

 

 

3.  Is there some minimum requirement for what constitutes a "rumor"?

• While it turned out to be true, the "rumor" that started the Bucs thread was anything but a rumor - it was literally nothing but a click-baity headline.
  • https://www.pewterreport.com/new-bucs-uniforms-coming/
  • If that's the level of rumor that can be used to start a thread, then I could start threads on any team, because there's a stuff a lot stronger than that out on the internet for just about every team.

[officeglenn]

14 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

1. not sure I see the need to shut down an unveiling thread two weeks after the actual unveiling, and then forcing for there to be a new thread in a whole different forum to be created to discuss the real-life new uniform.  

• There's going to be valid stuff to discuss longer than a few weeks from the unveiling, for example, once replicas start getting shipped, if we start seeing them in minicamps and notice something we missed, if the patriots actually do have gray pants and just forgot to unveil them, etc. 
• The threads just die on their own, there's no need to assist the death.  Seems like adding unnecessary work for no benefit.
  • Though the Jets one was a little absurd - so maybe a year?  But making a rule for something that's happened like once might be a little excessive.
  • The Bucs and Patriots threads are already nearly off the first page.  They'll certainly be brought back and probably bumped periodically through the season, but then history shows they'll fade away and not interfere with any 2021 stuff.  Again, the Jets is the exception.
• It's already a little confusing to know what belongs in "general discussion".  You could go through and make a case for threads in either forum to go to the other.  It'll be even more confusing if I'm talking about the Patriots in Sports Logos one day, and then need to remember to look in General Discussion the next day.  Overall, I think General Discussion is really unnecessary, but at the very least, if we're talking about what is still a new uniform, I'm not sure why it would be moved.  Again, unnecessary work for no gain.

 

From observing the NFL threads this offseason, I would disagree with the threads dying on their own -- it seems like some people will keep them on life support for reasons I can't fathom. And it seemed like two weeks was about the point where everything that could be said about a new uniform set had been said, and the discussion would devolve into airport codes or indie music or Jacksonville. Maybe those league-wide season Discussion threads get started at the start of the preseason? Or even when pics start coming out of workouts, like with Brady in the Bucs' helmet this week?

 

Either way, it feels like something needs to be done, and any decision is better than no decision. If it's not working, we can go back and revisit it later.

 

 

14 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

2. What if there's league-wide things like new templates, or something like all the rumors that came with the EDGE hockey system?  Things like talking about if unfiforms are going to require front numbers next year, or have ad patches, or other league-wide (or at least multiple-team spanning) changes might warrant megathreads, but obviously they'd need to be focused and then possibly split as teams actually release things.  

• Not sure how often this would actually happen, and I'm too lazy / apathetic to go back and look, so it's probably not even a big enough deal to think hard about.  Just let common sense prevail.

 

The EDGE system is about the only instance like that I can think of in a Big 4 league, and I think we would make an exception in such a rare case and allow for a thread covering multiple teams given the commonalities between teams. The only other instance I can think of is the Canadian Football League releasing new uniforms en masse when switching uniform suppliers a few years ago, but the CFL would be a league where a multi-team thread would be permissible anyway.

 

 

14 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

3.  Is there some minimum requirement for what constitutes a "rumor"?

• While it turned out to be true, the "rumor" that started the Bucs thread was anything but a rumor - it was literally nothing but a click-baity headline.
  • https://www.pewterreport.com/new-bucs-uniforms-coming/
  • If that's the level of rumor that can be used to start a thread, then I could start threads on any team, because there's a stuff a lot stronger than that out on the internet for just about every team.

 

I guess a credible rumour is one of those things that you'll know when you see it. I mean, there's a big difference between an article from a beat reporter at a major metropolitan daily newspaper and some dude on Twitter with the handle RamzBuzz420. But there is a lot of grey area in between, which is why "at the mods' discretion" is a big part of the proposed policy. With the above Bucs example, we might not shut it down right away, but maybe wait a bit to see if anything comes up that backs it up more concretely.

[BBTV]

1 hour ago, officeglenn said:

it seems like some people will keep them on life support for reasons I can't fathom

 

Also keep in mind that 

• more NFL unveilings this year than in any other single year
• There's a global pandemic that is keeping people at home with nothing else to do but watch porn and post on this forum, so I think this year is an outlier.  I"d be willing to bet that posts/member are higher from mid march - mid may than in any other two week period.  Under normal circumstances, I'm probably not worried about why revolutionary-war-era soldiers needed different drumming patterns, or why 16th-century pirates wore such elaborate outfits and jewelry that would either rust or weigh them down.

 

1 hour ago, officeglenn said:

With the above Bucs example, we might not shut it down right away, but maybe wait a bit to see if anything comes up that backs it up more concretely.

 

That topic was started right around the time that 'general discussion' was created, and it was hard to understand why it belonged in 'news', since it was not even a rumor, let alone a credible one.  Even if it was a credible rumor, at some point a rumor has to turn true or get wheels behind it, or it's just 'general discussion', and again, it just seems like unnecessary work for an already overworked and underpaid mod team to worry about.

[BBTV]

So how would this be handled?  Already have confirmations for a couple of teams, but just lots of league-wide rumors.

 

 

 

The megathread was presumably created by a mod while the proposal to end megathreads is in flight, and was based on a change to a ball.

 

I don't really care, other than I hate megathreads, just pointing it out.

 

 

[officeglenn]

27 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

So how would this be handled?  Already have confirmations for a couple of teams, but just lots of league-wide rumors.

 

 

 

The megathread was presumably created by a mod while the proposal to end megathreads is in flight, and was based on a change to a ball.

 

I don't really care, other than I hate megathreads, just pointing it out.

 

Yeah, this was started while gathering feedback on the new policy, but the game ball item was its own thread before getting merged in. 

Ideally it would be separate threads -- one starting with the Mavs' tweet, one starting with the game ball item, one on the Lakers' gold (which may not generate much discussion). The Spurs fiesta set hasn't been backed up by any report from outside the boards, so it and all the other speculation could go into a Sports Logos Discussion thread.

 

However, at this point, I'm willing to grandfather in existing megathreads since it would be a fair bit of work right now to split that up.