NBA Changes 2020/21

[_DietDrPepper_]

39 minutes ago, LA Fakers+ LA Snippers said:

And it’s quite the possibility that neither of those guys get a ring (Dame more than Giannis, but the point stands). LeBron leaving Cleveland was not the problem, it was the fact that he televised it. If LBJ never leaves Cleveland, I don’t think he’d have even 1 ring, at best. The ownership and management didn’t know how to build a competent team, and LeBron would carry them to wins, so they couldn’t exactly rebuild. Small market teams are harder to win with than bigger markets, just because players don’t want to come their. And if you keep getting duds in the draft, it’s even harder to win. Jordan, Hakeem, Magic, Larry, Kobe, Dirk, and other 1-team stars had the benefits of playing in big markets (LA, Chicago, Houston, Boston, Dallas, etc.). Cleveland was not(and still isn’t) anywhere near those cities. KD had the same problem with OKC, however, what he did wrong was join a team that was already almost invincible. Reggie Miller, John Stockton, (and likely Damian Lillard) have all learned the hard way that loyalty doesn’t always win championships.

There was no guarantee Lebron gets a ring in Miami until Wade and Bosh also signed there, not to mention smaller pieces, most notably Ray Allen (coming from a Spurs fan) also signing. I don’t think he gets a single ring in Miami without them.

Its less about him leaving Cleveland and more about multiple stars all convening on one team. It’s much less impressive when a team trades 24/7 then when a team actually drafts a contender. The pre-Durant Warriors, the original Thunder big 3, the Spurs dynasty, older teams like the MJ Bulls, are all more impressive then the Heat big 3, Celtics big 3 (Garnett, Allen, Pierce), Cavs big 3, and even the current Clippers and Nets teams. 

[spartacat_12]

1 hour ago, LA Fakers+ LA Snippers said:

And it’s quite the possibility that neither of those guys get a ring (Dame more than Giannis, but the point stands). LeBron leaving Cleveland was not the problem, it was the fact that he televised it. If LBJ never leaves Cleveland, I don’t think he’d have even 1 ring, at best. The ownership and management didn’t know how to build a competent team, and LeBron would carry them to wins, so they couldn’t exactly rebuild. Small market teams are harder to win with than bigger markets, just because players don’t want to come their. And if you keep getting duds in the draft, it’s even harder to win. Jordan, Hakeem, Magic, Larry, Kobe, Dirk, and other 1-team stars had the benefits of playing in big markets (LA, Chicago, Houston, Boston, Dallas, etc.). Cleveland was not(and still isn’t) anywhere near those cities. KD had the same problem with OKC, however, what he did wrong was join a team that was already almost invincible. Reggie Miller, John Stockton, (and likely Damian Lillard) have all learned the hard way that loyalty doesn’t always win championships.

 

It wasn't just televising The Decision that rubbed people the wrong way, it was the fact that Lebron, Wade, and Bosh essentially colluded to make sure their contracts would all expire the same summer. I remember people knew they'd all be playing together, it was just a matter of where (I remember Chicago being the favourite to land all 3 of them for a while). 

 

I don't think Dallas or Houston are in the same tier as LA, Boston, or Chicago, so Hakeem & Dirk are closer to Dame or Giannis than Jordan or Magic. Dirk had had several playoff disappointments before finally winning his title, so I don't think people would've blamed him if he had left to team up with Kobe or someone similar. He decided to stay, and was able to win without the Mavs having to go out and get another MVP-caliber player to help him.

 

I consider KD's decision to be much worse than Lebron's. He was playing with another MVP, got his team within 1 win of the NBA Finals, then bailed to join the team who beat him.

[Indigo]

5 hours ago, _DietDrPepper_ said:

There was no guarantee Lebron gets a ring in Miami until Wade and Bosh also signed there, not to mention smaller pieces, most notably Ray Allen (coming from a Spurs fan) also signing. I don’t think he gets a single ring in Miami without them.

Its less about him leaving Cleveland and more about multiple stars all convening on one team. It’s much less impressive when a team trades 24/7 then when a team actually drafts a contender. The pre-Durant Warriors, the original Thunder big 3, the Spurs dynasty, older teams like the MJ Bulls, are all more impressive then the Heat big 3, Celtics big 3 (Garnett, Allen, Pierce), Cavs big 3, and even the current Clippers and Nets teams. 

D-Wade was already there. 
MJ had Dennis Rodman(from the hated rival Pistons) join for his second three-peat, and I doubt that happens without him. Imagine a world where MJ has 3-4 rings.

It is very hard to build a contender primarily through the draft, and typically takes long periods of suffering to do so. The pre-MJ Bulls had 7 losing seasons in 9 years. The Sonics had 4 in 5 years before they drafted KD(and 5 in 6 years before they drafted Harden).  From 1994 to 2012, Golden State had 16 losing seasons in 18 years. 

 

[_DietDrPepper_]

16 minutes ago, LA Fakers+ LA Snippers said:

D-Wade was already there. 
MJ had Dennis Rodman(from the hated rival Pistons) join for his second three-peat, and I doubt that happens without him. Imagine a world where MJ has 3-4 rings.

 

MJ with 3-4 rings is still more then Lebron would’ve had without his super teams. He’s only gotten rings from being on super teams. Imagine a world where Lebron is still win-less.

17 minutes ago, LA Fakers+ LA Snippers said:

It is very hard to build a contender primarily through the draft, and typically takes long periods of suffering to do so. The pre-MJ Bulls had 7 losing seasons in 9 years. The Sonics had 4 in 5 years before they drafted KD(and 5 in 6 years before they drafted Harden).  From 1994 to 2012, Golden State had 16 losing seasons in 18 years. 

 

I feel like that’s the point though. What fun is it if the Lakers constantly trade players away just to reload a championship contender. Just because they’re the Lakers doesn’t mean they don’t deserve to have a losing season every now and then. If we’re going to have the same 5 teams win the finals every year why bother with the other 25 in the league.

Take it from me a Spurs fan who’s never really seen my team lose. I’m content with not being a finals or even playoff contender now, I got my share, it’s another team, another group of players turn to win something. 

Teams going through periods of winning and losing is the sign of a healthy and balanced league.

[Germanshepherd]

Lockervision lied! Jazz in yellow tonight instead of white as initially noted. First non Black v. White game in the series. 

[Indigo]

2 hours ago, _DietDrPepper_ said:

MJ with 3-4 rings is still more then Lebron would’ve had without his super teams. He’s only gotten rings from being on super teams. Imagine a world where Lebron is still win-less.

I feel like that’s the point though. What fun is it if the Lakers constantly trade players away just to reload a championship contender. Just because they’re the Lakers doesn’t mean they don’t deserve to have a losing season every now and then. If we’re going to have the same 5 teams win the finals every year why bother with the other 25 in the league.

Take it from me a Spurs fan who’s never really seen my team lose. I’m content with not being a finals or even playoff contender now, I got my share, it’s another team, another group of players turn to win something. 

Teams going through periods of winning and losing is the sign of a healthy and balanced league.

Fair point, but you can’t discount every championship* win by a “super team”.  (Technically, your Spurs didn’t draft Kawhi). The thing with super teams is, they’ll have a period of dominance, but eventually they break down into rebuilds again. LeBron left Miami(and Cleveland). Kyrie left Cleveland. KD left Golden State. 
*The KD Warriors, sure

[dont care]

8 hours ago, _DietDrPepper_ said:

There was no guarantee Lebron gets a ring in Miami until Wade and Bosh also signed there, not to mention smaller pieces, most notably Ray Allen (coming from a Spurs fan) also signing. I don’t think he gets a single ring in Miami without them.

Its less about him leaving Cleveland and more about multiple stars all convening on one team. It’s much less impressive when a team trades 24/7 then when a team actually drafts a contender. The pre-Durant Warriors, the original Thunder big 3, the Spurs dynasty, older teams like the MJ Bulls, are all more impressive then the Heat big 3, Celtics big 3 (Garnett, Allen, Pierce), Cavs big 3, and even the current Clippers and Nets teams. 

Wade wasn’t going to leave Miami so they had to go there being the bigger market. 

[Digby]

I mean, until players get full no-trade clauses as a rule, I find it hard to get mad at any of them negotiating the length and place of their contracts however they want, for any reason.
 

All of this works both ways; remember how the Nets made a big show of how this time they were going to build the “right way” and “build a culture” and look at them now! Kenny Anderson died for this. No one forced them to sign a Big Three, two of whom forced their way out of their old teams on bad terms.

[spartacat_12]

11 hours ago, dont care said:

Wade wasn’t going to leave Miami so they had to go there being the bigger market. 

 

It was never a guarantee that Wade was going to stay in Miami. The Big 3 came close to signing with Chicago together.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/lebron-james-dwyane-wade-chris-bosh-considered-bulls-in-2010-per-report-heres-how-it-couldve-been/

[truepg]

The problem with LeBron's Decision was not as much the fact that it was televised or that the "Big Three's" contacts' expiration coincided with each other, rather than him not keeping Cleveland informed of his intentions until the last minute,  for them to be able to make appropriate and suitable moves in time with his departure in mind until it was late.

 

Then, sure, there was the fact that he joined with two other stars on one team...

[dont care]

20 minutes ago, truepg said:

The problem with LeBron's Decision was not as much the fact that it was televised or that the "Big Three's" contacts' expiration coincided with each other, rather than him not keeping Cleveland informed of his intentions until the last minute,  for them to be able to make appropriate and suitable moves in time with his departure in mind until it was late.

 

Then, sure, there was the fact that he joined with two other stars on one team...

He didn’t have an obligation to. He was a free agent. How many other free agents tell their motives of where they are going until they sign the contract. He also announced where he was going at the beginning of free agency. It’s not like he sat around waiting for the best offer.

[truepg]

5 minutes ago, dont care said:

He didn’t have an obligation to. He was a free agent. How many other free agents tell their motives of where they are going until they sign the contract. He also announced where he was going at the beginning of free agency. It’s not like he sat around waiting for the best offer.

He was also free to sign with whatever team and join whichever stars, it doesn't make it any less weak a move. He could've easily let them know he wasn't coming back.

[dont care]

1 minute ago, truepg said:

He was also free to sign with whatever team and join whichever stars, it doesn't make it any less weak a move. He could've easily let them know he wasn't coming back.

He didn’t have an obligation to. Very rarely does a free agent tell their old team they aren’t coming back. Only exceptions are when it’s known the player wanted out. The team had plenty of time to plan for post Lebron, and if their only plan was “we’re getting Lebron back so we won’t do anything” just shows why Lebron left in the first place.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

1 minute ago, dont care said:

He didn’t have an obligation to. Very rarely does a free agent tell their old team they aren’t coming back. Only exceptions are when it’s known the player wanted out. The team had plenty of time to plan for post Lebron, and if their only plan was “we’re getting Lebron back so we won’t do anything” just shows why Lebron left in the first place.

 

Miami learned that same lesson in 2014.

It's all symptomatic of LeBron James Derangement Syndrome. Oldheads who can't bear that someone might be better than MJ, hangers-on (like me) who will excuse any action he takes, and the modern generation who kind of just wants him out of the way. Plus media personalities who are upset that they are routinely denied access and can't handle it.

 

Building a winning team in the NBA is a combination of skill and luck. The Spurs were lucky their down years ended up with Robinson and then Duncan. The Raptors were lucky they had the assets to trade for Kawhi and KD and Klay went down in the Finals. The Warriors were lucky Steph was on a team-friendly contract following an ankle injury and that Kyrie and Love went down in the Finals and then the one-year cap bump and KD was willing to be fourth banana for three years. Cleveland was lucky LeBron was born in Akron and they had the assets to move for Love.

 

There are no "pure" titles in the NBA. It takes good drafting, good signing, and good cap management. It helps to have superstar players who will draw in other lesser stay players to play for below-market contracts (Blake, Drummond). It helps to be in no income tax states. It helps to be healthy in the playoffs.

 

The Miami titles are as valid as the 60s Celtics titles or the 80s Lakers or the 90s Bulls or 2010s Warriors.

[Guest]

On 6/15/2021 at 9:31 AM, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

Miami learned that same lesson in 2014.

It's all symptomatic of LeBron James Derangement Syndrome. Oldheads who can't bear that someone might be better than MJ, hangers-on (like me) who will excuse any action he takes, and the modern generation who kind of just wants him out of the way. Plus media personalities who are upset that they are routinely denied access and can't handle it.

 

Building a winning team in the NBA is a combination of skill and luck. The Spurs were lucky their down years ended up with Robinson and then Duncan. The Raptors were lucky they had the assets to trade for Kawhi and KD and Klay went down in the Finals. The Warriors were lucky Steph was on a team-friendly contract following an ankle injury and that Kyrie and Love went down in the Finals and then the one-year cap bump and KD was willing to be fourth banana for three years. Cleveland was lucky LeBron was born in Akron and they had the assets to move for Love.

 

There are no "pure" titles in the NBA. It takes good drafting, good signing, and good cap management. It helps to have superstar players who will draw in other lesser stay players to play for below-market contracts (Blake, Drummond). It helps to be in no income tax states. It helps to be healthy in the playoffs.

 

The Miami titles are as valid as the 60s Celtics titles or the 80s Lakers or the 90s Bulls or 2010s Warriors.

 

Every era will be romanticized by their contemporaries.  Like, "my dad can beat up your dad."  Well, rules changed, and knowing ppl like Donaghy and Joey Crawford were around, who knows how many (more) championships teams could have won?  

 

Love the Bulls, but they got calls (like Pistons before them and Celtics before Pistons) and MJ didn't join a superteam: he already had one.

[Kramerica Industries]

On 6/14/2021 at 2:37 PM, spartacat_12 said:

it was the fact that Lebron, Wade, and Bosh essentially colluded to make sure their contracts would all expire the same summer.

 

Honestly, I always thought the part where that trio earned their biggest hatred was when Lebron did the "not one [championship], not two, not three..." bit during that party they threw at the Heat's arena after the signings were made. It was all pretty excessive and self-congratulatory.

[Germanshepherd]

 

There seems to be a pretty big fan push for the Hawks to go with MLK jerseys at home the rest of the way. Given the 11-1 record and the playoff atmosphere during those games, I’d expect this to be the home identity going forward. 

[sky1324]

5 minutes ago, Germanshepherd said:

 

There seems to be a pretty big fan push for the Hawks to go with MLK jerseys at home the rest of the way. Given the 11-1 record and the playoff atmosphere during those games, I’d expect this to be the home identity going forward. 

How disappointing. Not only are the jerseys not good, they don't have the Hawks anywhere. Alts should never be worn in the playoffs, let alone as the primary home identity!

[PERRIN]

I've got some mixed feelings about this whole alternate ordeal. Honestly, I love the MLK tribute uniforms, at least in a vacuum. Nice, consistent striping pattern on a unique shorts design, a nice tribute to an important figure relevant to the area, and a great color scheme. The court, too, looks amazing.  However, it's one of a few rare hits in Nike's catalog, and shoving alternates everywhere over normal uniforms needs to be toned down a few dozen notches. I wouldn't be opposed to the occasional alternate in the playoffs, as seeing the same two uniforms looks consistent but repetitive, but going with alternates in every game of a series is just too much. 

[TenaciousG]

Last night’s Sixers/Hawks game was beautiful, one of the good things about the league’s loosened restrictions on color vs. color.

 

However I also think the MLK jerseys should be left out of the playoffs. While they are a deserving tribute, it does reek of crass commercialism to have essentially TWO ads on there (Nike swoosh and Sharecare). And as for the good luck factor, I hate to break it to you, but uniforms don’t win games.