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Washington NFL Franchise Retires Name and Logo

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2 minutes ago, Moseph said:

I just want to be clear with everyone here, while I'm disappointed in the name change because it's all I've ever known, I do understand that some people find it offensive. What I'm actually upset about with this change is losing the brand of the team and not being able to find a way to honor Native Americans. Once the change is complete, to me they might as well just be an expansion team and I'm afraid of them getting a complete trash Nike overhaul which would result in the loss of another great classic look in the league. I get that I only have two options, to either stop following the team or just deal with the change, and I plan on doing the latter. Right about now I wish they had never moved away from the Braves name in 1933 or found something that would've appeased everyone a long time ago.


It seems to me that you may be missing the point of this exercise. 
 

Native American names in sports do not, and were never intended to, “honor Native Americans.” 
 

I can appreciate your disappointment over the loss of what you know. But it was never honoring anybody.

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1 minute ago, Gothamite said:


“Presented without comment” is an endorsement.  I really think they’ll need to explain each and every instance.

 

And yes, that will mean including “we ignored Native Americans’ requests until 2020.”

 

Don't think I said "presented without comment" did I?

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3 minutes ago, Gothamite said:


And on the other hand, open racism shouldn’t be presented as if it’s even a little bit okay.  Doesn’t matter what times were like Back then

I understand that, but I can't think of anything that has been completely eradicated. Everyone knows what a swastika, the Confederate flag, or what the 'n' word is. While I do not condone any of those, like it or not they are a part of history and something we can all learn from. If we erase all of that from history books or museums, how are we going to learn from past mistakes and make sure they're not repeated in the future?

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1 minute ago, Moseph said:

I understand that, but I can't think of anything that has been completely eradicated. Everyone knows what a swastika, the Confederate flag, or what the 'n' word is. While I do not condone any of those, like it or not they are a part of history and something we can all learn from. If we erase all of that from history books or museums, how are we going to learn from past mistakes and make sure they're not repeated in the future?

I missed the part of this Redskins announcement that involved erasing our memories of things.

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Just now, Moseph said:

I understand that, but I can't think of anything that has been completely eradicated. Everyone knows what a swastika, the Confederate flag, or what the 'n' word is. While I do not condone any of those, like it or not they are a part of history and something we can all learn from. If we erase all of that from history books or museums, how are we going to learn from past mistakes and make sure they're not repeated in the future?


Okay, but literally nobody has ever said that.

 

You see a lot of museum exhibits celebrating Hitler’s accomplishments, or celebrating the great victories of the Klan?

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2 minutes ago, infrared41 said:

Don’t think I said "presented without comment" did I?


I just wanted to clarify.  That’s why we need an explanation at each and every instance why it wasn’t okay at the time and isn’t okay now. 

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2 minutes ago, gosioux76 said:


It seems to me that you may be missing the point of this exercise. 
 

Native American names in sports do not, and were never intended to, “honor Native Americans.” 
 

I can appreciate your disappointment over the loss of what you know. But it was never honoring anybody.

Ok, if that's the case then why isn't there complete outrage over all other teams in sports that relate to Native Americans whetherit be through name or imagery?

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6 minutes ago, Moseph said:

Everyone knows what a swastika, the Confederate flag, or what the 'n' word is. While I do not condone any of those, like it or not they are a part of history and something we can all learn from. If we erase all of that from history books or museums, how are we going to learn from past mistakes and make sure they're not repeated in the future?

Please tell me you're not trying to compare a symbol of racial oppression to a sports team name.

 

There's literally no reason to keep the name "R*dskins". The franchise is still the same thing. The history remains with it, it just has a different name.

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2 minutes ago, Moseph said:

If we erase all of that from history books or museums, how are we going to learn from past mistakes and make sure they're not repeated in the future?

 

History books and NFL-Reference.com aren't the same thing. Point being, changing "Redskins beat Bears 73-0" to "Washington beats Chicago 73-0" in some almanac isn't erasing the history of the team. The history isn't going anywhere, just the name from this point forward. We aren't going to forget that this team was called the Redskins for a good long while. Sure, in 80 years it will be a footnote, but it will still be there. You need to let the historians handle the history stuff.

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3 minutes ago, gosioux76 said:

I missed the part of this Redskins announcement that involved erasing our memories of things.

It was never part of the announcement, that spurred from me questioning what will happen in the HOF and people suggesting to get rid of all ties to the Redskins.

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4 minutes ago, Moseph said:

I understand that, but I can't think of anything that has been completely eradicated. Everyone knows what a swastika, the Confederate flag, or what the 'n' word is. While I do not condone any of those, like it or not they are a part of history and something we can all learn from. If we erase all of that from history books or museums, how are we going to learn from past mistakes and make sure they're not repeated in the future?

 

There's a difference between keeping symbols around to learn from them and glorifying them, which is a direction I think society has leaned too far in with statues and even tolerating the continued use of those symbols outside of an educational setting.

 

That said, we are not getting into other indigenous team names and why they haven't been changed yet in this thread. I'm sure all those teams are taking a good, long look in the mirror and decided how best to move forward. Keep this thread focused on the Redskins.

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4 minutes ago, Ridleylash said:

Please tell me you're not trying to compare a symbol of racial oppression to a sports team name.

 

There's literally no reason to keep the name "R*dskins". The franchise is still the same thing. The history remains with it, it just has a different name.

I never said to keep the name Redskins, I was hoping to keep the imagery the same. I was just curious about what would happen in the HOF as you can't change what's happened in the past. It never occurred to me to just remove the Redskins name and only have it say Washington there. Would you be ok if they left the logos in use for the HOF and things of that nature?

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7 minutes ago, Moseph said:

Ok, if that's the case then why isn't there complete outrage over all other teams in sports that relate to Native Americans whetherit be through name or imagery?

Um, there kind of is. It’s been a story for decades. It’s the same reason why the Indians are considering a name change and why teams like the Braves constantly have to address the issue. That’s not even addressing the dozens of high schools and colleges that have transitioned from Native American identities in just the last 10 years alone.

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7 minutes ago, officeglenn said:

 

There's a difference between keeping symbols around to learn from them and glorifying them, which is a direction I think society has leaned too far in with statues and even tolerating the continued use of those symbols outside of an educational setting.

 

That said, we are not getting into other indigenous team names and why they haven't been changed yet in this thread. I'm sure all those teams are taking a good, long look in the mirror and decided how best to move forward. Keep this thread focused on the Redskins.

I'm sorry for getting off topic, I was just curious about what the future may hold. I agree with you about glorification, but do you think it would be acceptable to continue using the logo without the team name in the HOF? I believe that could be used as an educational setting on the history of the league.

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4 minutes ago, Gothamite said:


I just wanted to clarify.  That’s why we need an explanation at each and every instance why it wasn’t okay at the time and isn’t okay now. 

 

I'm half "Native/Indigenous/First nation" or whatever we're being called this week, and I'm not worried about anyone explaining anything. The name is gone. Pretty sure most people will know why without beating them over the head with it. The ones that need to be beaten over the head with why will never understand anyway. FWIW, when I drive on to a reservation, I don't see a sign explaining why it wasn't OK at the time and still isn't OK today that the people living there were forced to live there because...well....reasons, I guess. Just another perspective. 😎

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2 minutes ago, Moseph said:

I'm sorry for getting off topic, I was just curious about what the future may hold. I agree with you about glorification, but do you think it would be acceptable to continue using the logo in the HOF? I believe that could be used as an educational setting on the history of the league.

 

Well, we don't know what the future may hold, so don't worry about it too much until it gets here. ^_^  But yes, I'd be OK with seeing the Redskins logo in the HOF. It is part of the league's history, and we can't change what happened, but you're right that we can learn from it.

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17 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

You see a lot of museum exhibits celebrating Hitler’s accomplishments, or celebrating the great victories of the Klan?

 

Well, Hitler never won three Super Bowls in nine years. 

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2 minutes ago, the admiral said:

 

Well, Hitler never won three Super Bowls in nine years. 

 

He barely missed the playoffs in '37, but that was as close as he'd ever get.

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16 minutes ago, gosioux76 said:

Um, there kind of is. It’s been a story for decades. It’s the same reason why the Indians are considering a name change and why teams like the Braves constantly have to address the issue. That’s not even addressing the dozens of high schools and colleges that have transitioned from Native American identities in just the last 10 years alone.

 

There were even colleges changing years in advance without the NCAA pressuring them like what happened to our schools.

 

As far as the history argument, I would just look at what's already happened in similar situations. When I attended a ULM game once, they trotted out their 1-AA National Champion team from the 80's that were at the time called the Indians. Arkansas State's players and coaches from their time as the Indians (which lasted 80 years) are still honored. The 1970 and 1975 unbeaten teams are still referenced in official capacities. Changing the nickname isn't about erasing history, but about building a better future.

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