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Washington NFL Franchise Retires Name and Logo

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9 minutes ago, Go Red Sox! said:

Why is the word still readable on CCSL? Answer me that quesion? https://www.sportslogos.net/logos/list_by_team/168/Washington_Redskins/

 

How do you want to call this team using a nickname which they had from 1932-2020? You wanna censor the name completely, although they were called the way they were called in all these decades? As terrible as the name is, this will be very hard to do. How are you going to do that without distorting reality and denying their questionable history? Answer me that and we actually will have a basis for discussion.

Because the mothership has no personal politics; it's an archive of sports logos, not a blog. There was a team named that word in the NFL, thus it should be on the site for historical purposes. That's why stuff like Little Red Sambo are still up on there, after all.

 

This is different since it's a forum, an inherently opinion-filled messaging space. There's no serious reason that we can't just say "Washington Football Team" and know exactly which organization we're talking about, we don't need the team name.

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5 minutes ago, Go Red Sox! said:

 

Why is the word still readable on CCSL? Answer me that quesion? https://www.sportslogos.net/logos/list_by_team/168/Washington_Redskins/

 

How do you want to call this team using a nickname which they had from 1932-2020? You wanna censor the name completely, although they were called the way they were called in all these decades? As terrible as the name is, this will be very hard to do. How are you going to do that without distorting reality and denying their questionable history? Answer me that and we actually will have a basis for discussion.

 

 

I thought you were done posting in this section.

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4 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Just a suggestion - maybe enclose the replacement text inside of brackets so that it's more obvious that it's a replacement and not what the poster actually wrote.

 

So like if I wanted to use the word [staff member, front office personnel, player, coach, or possibly cheerleader of the Washington Football Team that plays in Maryland and is headquartered in the Commonwealth of Virginia], while discussing players that played on the [Washington Football Team] championship teams from like 40 years ago or whenever that sorry-ass team ever won anything, it'd be clear that it was essentially a MOD EDIT

 

Thank you. This is what really pi..ed me off!

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1 minute ago, Go Red Sox! said:

 

Why is the word still readable on CCSL? Answer me that quesion? https://www.sportslogos.net/logos/list_by_team/168/Washington_Redskins/

 

How do you want to call this team using a nickname which they had from 1932-2020? You wanna censor the name completely, although they were called the way they were called in all these decades? As terrible as the name is, this will be very hard to do. How are you going to do that without distorting reality and denying their questionable history? Answer me that and we actually will have a basis for discussion.

 

 

My god.  I'm not a mod, but as someone with a little common sense, I'll attempt to respond to this.

 

NOBODY IS ERASING HISTORY.  That's never been mentioned as an intent of the name change.  Never mentioned by the team, by the league, by the mods of this forum, by anyone.  Yes, it's silly that a slur is OK and bizzach is not, but it is what it is.

 

When you look in the history books, it's going to have the R-word in it... I think.  If the history books simply refer to the team as Washington, then maybe it makes sense for the site to change, but I don't think that's happening.  Ernest Byner played for the Washington R-Words and nothing can change that.

 

That being said, while history isn't being censored, there's no reason to use the word moving forward.  We can discuss Ernest Byner and Mark Rypien without using the word.  There's simply no reason to type it anymore.  

 

Also - it takes time to go back and edit everything.  Just look at the team.  They have to change all their signs, graphics, advertisements, merch, etc  It is a process.  While the admins of this forum take it way too seriously and treat it like we're debating actual public policy that's going to impact millions of American lives, it's not practical to edit everything within the relatively short amount of time this has happened.

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2 minutes ago, infrared41 said:

 

I thought you were done posting in this section.

 

No answer to my question.

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9 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

Just a suggestion - maybe enclose the replacement text inside of brackets so that it's more obvious that it's a replacement and not what the poster actually wrote.

 

So like if I wanted to use the word [staff member, front office personnel, player, coach, or possibly cheerleader of the Washington Football Team that plays in Maryland and is headquartered in the Commonwealth of Virginia], while discussing players that played on the [Washington Football Team] championship teams from like 40 years ago or whenever that sorry-ass team ever won anything, it'd be clear that it was essentially a MOD EDIT

 

One more suggestion - the replacement for the singular form of the R-word was funny at first, but it's so long that it makes posts really hard to read.

 

Just switch it to literally [R-word].  The plural replacement still makes sense, just add the brackets.

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1 minute ago, Go Red Sox! said:

 

No answer to my question.

 

A moderator provided a detailed answer to your question. I know because I'm the mod who answered it. 

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11 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

My god.  I'm not a mod, but as someone with a little common sense, I'll attempt to respond to this.

 

NOBODY IS ERASING HISTORY.  That's never been mentioned as an intent of the name change.  Never mentioned by the team, by the league, by the mods of this forum, by anyone.  Yes, it's silly that a slur is OK and bizzach is not, but it is what it is.

 

When you look in the history books, it's going to have the R-word in it... I think.  If the history books simply refer to the team as Washington, then maybe it makes sense for the site to change, but I don't think that's happening.  Ernest Byner played for the Washington R-Words and nothing can change that.

 

That being said, while history isn't being censored, there's no reason to use the word moving forward.  We can discuss Ernest Byner and Mark Rypien without using the word.  There's simply no reason to type it anymore.  

 

Also - it takes time to go back and edit everything.  Just look at the team.  They have to change all their signs, graphics, advertisements, merch, etc  It is a process.  While the admins of this forum take it way too seriously and treat it like we're debating actual public policy that's going to impact millions of American lives, it's not practical to edit everything within the relatively short amount of time this has happened.

 

And you guys just don't understand that this is just hypocritical bs in the first place? Wow! Has nothing to do with a lack of time to edit and change names, since CCSL won't change it anyway. I bet they won't. Because this would be against their own interests as a sports logo history website. That's the part where hypocrisy comes into play. Again: Words are just words – the context is important! Otherwise, freedom of speech gets restricted more and more and more. But some of you guys seem to have adapted to that reality without being bothered about. That's so typical for America.

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2 minutes ago, Go Red Sox! said:

And you guys just don't understand that this is just hypocritical bs in the first place? Wow! Has nothing to do with a lack of time to edit and change names, since CCSL won't change it anyway. I bet they won't. Because this would be against their own interests as a sports logo history website. That's the part where hypocrisy comes into play. Words are just words – the context is important! Otherwise, freedom of speech gets restricted more and more and more. But some of you guys seem to have adapted to that reality without being bothered about. That's so typical for America.

 

15 minutes ago, Ridleylash said:

Because the mothership has no personal politics; it's an archive of sports logos, not a blog. There was a team named that word in the NFL, thus it should be on the site for historical purposes. That's why stuff like Little Red Sambo are still up on there, after all.

 

This is different since it's a forum, an inherently opinion-filled messaging space. There's no serious reason that we can't just say "Washington Football Team" and know exactly which organization we're talking about, we don't need the team name.

I literally explained why, and I'm not even CCSL staff. Come on, dude.

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6 minutes ago, Go Red Sox! said:

 

And you guys just don't understand that this is just hypocritical bs in the first place? Wow! Has nothing to do with a lack of time to edit and change names, since CCSL won't change it anyway. I bet they won't. Because this would be against their own interests as a sports logo history website. That's the part where hypocrisy comes into play. Again: Words are just words – the context is important! Otherwise, freedom of speech gets restricted more and more and more. But some of you guys seem to have adapted to that reality without being bothered about. That's so typical for America.

Considering that this board and the mothership are Canadian enterprises that, and all the free speech arguments, don’t apply.

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I like the idea of "history books." Like one day there will be some grand tome of all that has happened, including name changes, franchise relocations, and whether the Browns are the Browns are not.

 

Most of this stuff is kind of silly. And we all know the name WTF used for 90 years. What benefit do we get for continuing to use it? CCSLC is probably archived somewhere, but the Library of Congress we are not.

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Some guy said the R-S word was a slur and should be censored on the boards (like the n-word), and the mods followed through. Blame that guy and the mods for thinking it was worth indulging, if you wish.


I would rather we adopted the relative lawlessness of 4chan or KiwiFarms, but I’m an exception. 

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3 minutes ago, LMU said:

Considering that this board and the mothership are Canadian enterprises that, and all the free speech arguments don’t apply.

 

So Canada is committing the same mistake as the U.S.?

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4 minutes ago, Go Red Sox! said:

Again: Words are just words – the context is important! Otherwise, freedom of speech gets restricted more and more and more. But some of you guys seem to have adapted to that reality without being bothered about. That's so typical for America.

 

Again, if words are just words, what's your issue here? Again, show us the proper context for using a racial slur when talking about a football team and we'll take it under advisement. Until then, and I hate to be so blunt, deal with it. For the third time, and I can't stress this enough, please look up how free speech actually works. I'll provide a clue and you can take it from there, OK? CCSLC is not the US Government. CCSLC is a privately owned enterprise. Hell, it's not even American, it's Canadian. Now I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure the US Bill of Rights does not apply to Canada.

 

Finally, I'd like to offer some friendly advice, step away from the site for a while before you end up doing something you shouldn't.

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7 minutes ago, Go Red Sox! said:

So Canada is commitingt the same mistake as the U.S.?

"Free speech" =/= "free reign to use racial slurs".

 

The main site acts as an archive of sports logos and identities; by the very nature of the site, the Washington Racial Slurs have to be included. This is a forum, where there is opinion and thus a need of rules. We can enforce the use of "Washington Football Team" just fine, because most people here know what we mean when we use those words.

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4 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

I would rather we adopted the relative lawlessness of 4chan or KiwiFarms, but I’m an exception. 

 

Duly noted. Again.

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14 minutes ago, Go Red Sox! said:

 

So Canada is commitingt the same mistake as the U.S.?

i'm really not trying to get into political discussions here at all, nor am I trying at all to backseat mod, but in regards to this whole thing and the free speech angle, besides it being, as mentioned, a Canadian site, free speech protects people from Government persecution, not private citizens running a website about sports logos (which is NOT persecution). I am absolutely a big believer in free speech, but this is a private site who (if the American Constitution applied and I'm not at all certain how websites are applied across "borders"), has the right to enforce restrictions as they see fit. They're not tracking down your private messages on other sites or in your life away from here and restricting your speech in any way. They simply created a rule for here. And we have the right to agree or disagree with that by choosing whether or not to post here. If we choose to be a part of this site, we agree to abide by their standards. Simple as that.

 

This is my only post on the subject and I do not take it personally if a moderator decides to remove it.

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8 minutes ago, infrared41 said:

 

Again, if words are just words, what's your issue here? Again, show us the proper context for using a racial slur when talking about a football team and we'll take it under advisement. Until then, and I hate to be so blunt, deal with it. For the third time, and I can't stress this enough, please look up how free speech actually works. I'll provide a clue and you can take it from there, OK? CCSLC is not the US Government. CCSLC is a privately owned enterprise. Hell, it's not even American, it's Canadian. Now I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure the US Bill of Rights does not apply to Canada.

 

Finally, I'd like to offer some friendly advice, step away from the site for a while before you end up doing something you shouldn't.

 

"For the third time, and I can't stress this enough, please look up how free speech actually works"

 

That's the hypocrisy! There is no FREE SPEECH here, since you have edited my comment without even leaving a notification in the comment itself, so it looked like I have sent that thing of a comment. This is not the definintion of free speech; at least not when it's about its initial meaning. This doesn't make any sense to continue this debate.

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Fun thread. Seems like we can’t have nice things.

 

anywho....I’m warming up to the burgundy helmet with no stripes.

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6 minutes ago, Go Red Sox! said:

So Canada is committing the same mistake as the U.S.?

 

US Bill of Rights. Read it. Please. Pay particular attention to the First Amendment.

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