Washington NFL Franchise Retires Name and Logo

[B-Rich]

13 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

I would doubt that your average football fan even thinks about what a 49er is, and thinks only about the football team when they hear the name. 

 

 

Eh, I'm of the age that I have found that most 'average' football fans (and most 'average' people) don't know half as much about ANYTHING as you think they would. 

 

Seriously, if it wasn't for Cincinnati's switch to the 1981 tiger stripe unis and helmets, most people wouldn't have a clue as to what "Bengals" referred to (I know I didn't when I first saw the old helmet nameplate in 1972... when I was 7). 

 

Same with 'esoteric' 'specialty' 'local' or 'historical' names like Knicks/Knickerbockers, Canucks, Pacers, Blue Jackets, Sounders, Maulers, Nittany Lions, Boilermakers, and Dodgers. Hell, half the people in the country (well, half the men and probably a higher percentage of women, to be honest) probably couldn't tell you what a Piston is, and why it is appropriate for Detroit (their beginning in Ft. Wayne notwithstanding).

 

If you give them a often-seen logo that gives it away-- the Celtics' Irishman, or the Cavaliers' sword/hat for instance-- they can make the connection.  Otherwise we'd have to stick to basic Lions and Tigers and Bears and Eagles and Hawks, oh my!  

[The_Admiral]

Fortunately with the ascendance of MLS, everyone can understand "FC," "City," and "United," the only permissible names.

[FiddySicks]

2 hours ago, BringBackTheVet said:

 

Holy hell - I had no idea what it was, and just read about it.  That's unbelievable.

Yeah, that’s what I mean. It’s such an important story to the founding of this area and is emphasized in schools here so much that for years I had just assumed it was something that everyone learned about in history classes growing up, like Washington crossing the Delaware. Learned rather late in life that I was incorrect about that one.

[SFGiants58]

2 minutes ago, FiddySicks said:

Yeah, that’s what I mean. It’s such an important story to the founding of this area and is emphasized in schools here so much that for years I had just assumed it was something that everyone learned about in history classes growing up, like Washington crossing the Delaware. Learned rather late in life that I was incorrect about that one.

That sounds crazy to me that kids don’t learn about it outside of CA/the western states.

[FiddySicks]

It definitely says something about our educational institutions, but I’m not so sure it’s an indictment of it, necessarily. We put such a huge emphasis on math and science (which we should, because it’s so important), that there really just isn’t much time left for that extensive of a look at our history. It’s problematic, no doubt. But I’m not sure how we can really fix that. 

[sky1324]

15 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

That sounds crazy to me that kids don’t learn about it outside of CA/the western states.

I was taught it in NC, it's not all that important in the grand scheme of things but the Gold Rush (and Manifest Destiny) was, so I can see how it comes up. Freaky stuff.

[SFGiants58]

3 minutes ago, FiddySicks said:

It definitely says something about our educational institutions, but I’m not so sure it’s an indictment of it, necessarily. We put such a huge emphasis on math and science (which we should, because it’s so important), that there really just isn’t much time left for that extensive of a look at our history. It’s problematic, no doubt. But I’m not sure how we can really fix that. 

 

Definitely. I'd argue that Jonestown needs to be stressed in 20th century American history far more than it is. I get that it's a horrifying tragedy, but the lessons of the cult still very much apply to the past and the present. Waco deserves that honor as well, provided the historiography doesn't favor the FBI/ATF or the child rapist cult leader too much. If anything, Waco can teach you the value of first-person perspectives, how media shapes our understandings of conflict, the dangers of religious organizations, and how the government agencies can be so thoroughly incompetent. Link it to Ruby Ridge/Oklahoma City and you have a unit on domestic terrorism.

 

If anything, I think it's a regional difference. In California, I don't think we got much on the War of 1812 (it's treated as a minor conflict, with the burning of DC and Battle of New Orleans). I've heard that 1812 gets a lot more significance in other regions. 

[andrewharrington]

8 minutes ago, FiddySicks said:

Yeah, that’s what I mean. It’s such an important story to the founding of this area and is emphasized in schools here so much that for years I had just assumed it was something that everyone learned about in history classes growing up, like Washington crossing the Delaware. Learned rather late in life that I was incorrect about that one.

I definitely recall learning about it, but we learned way more about meaningless Ohio history than we ever did about interesting regional history like the Donner party.

 

I took the California Zephyr from Chicago to Oakland and it was very eerie passing by the lake where they set up camp.

[andrewharrington]

3 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

Definitely. I'd argue that Jonestown needs to be stressed in 20th century American history far more than it is. I get that it's a horrifying tragedy, but the lessons of the cult still very much apply to the past and the present. Waco deserves that honor as well, provided the historiography doesn't favor the FBI/ATF or the child rapist cult leader too much. If anything, Waco can teach you the value of first-person perspectives, how media shapes our understandings of conflict, the dangers of religious organizations, and how the government agencies can be so thoroughly incompetent. Link it to Ruby Ridge/Oklahoma City and you have a unit on domestic terrorism.

 

If anything, I think it's a regional difference. In California, I don't think we got much on the War of 1812 (it's treated as a minor conflict, with the burning of DC and Battle of New Orleans). I've heard that 1812 gets a lot more significance in other regions. 

That’s another good one. We got lots of 1812 in our curriculum due to the Battle of Lake Erie.

 

Did you watch the Waco miniseries from 2018? It’s a dramatization based equally on a book by a survivor from inside and a book by the FBI’s lead negotiator at the time (who was opposed to the tactical strategy of the FBI and the other agencies). I think it fits the tone you describe, not being overly sympathetic to either the agencies or the leaders of the commune, but instead focusing on all the different breakdowns and the nuances in each individual’s circumstances.

[BBTV]

I think most of the history I learned was around the colonial era through revolutionary war, and civil war.  I could be missing some things, but I think that's most of it.  I'm sure part of it was due to the fact that revolutionary war history coincides with local history, and all the landmarks are right here, and even our class trips to Williamsburg and Gettysburg weren't very far.  Also some on Louis and Clarke, manifest destiny, Columbus was great, we defeated then domesticated the savage injuns (followed by my class making our "indian sound" where we made a loud noise while frantically placing and removing our hands from our mouths), and so on and so forth.

 

[Sec19Row53]

28 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

Definitely. I'd argue that Jonestown needs to be stressed in 20th century American history far more than it is. I get that it's a horrifying tragedy, but the lessons of the cult still very much apply to the past and the present. Waco deserves that honor as well, provided the historiography doesn't favor the FBI/ATF or the child rapist cult leader too much. If anything, Waco can teach you the value of first-person perspectives, how media shapes our understandings of conflict, the dangers of religious organizations, and how the government agencies can be so thoroughly incompetent. Link it to Ruby Ridge/Oklahoma City and you have a unit on domestic terrorism.

 

If anything, I think it's a regional difference. In California, I don't think we got much on the War of 1812 (it's treated as a minor conflict, with the burning of DC and Battle of New Orleans). I've heard that 1812 gets a lot more significance in other regions. 

You mistakenly spelled 'cult' 'religious organization'. 

[dont care]

4 hours ago, B-Rich said:

 

 

Eh, I'm of the age that I have found that most 'average' football fans (and most 'average' people) don't know half as much about ANYTHING as you think they would. 

 

Seriously, if it wasn't for Cincinnati's switch to the 1981 tiger stripe unis and helmets, most people wouldn't have a clue as to what "Bengals" referred to (I know I didn't when I first saw the old helmet nameplate in 1972... when I was 7). 

 

Same with 'esoteric' 'specialty' 'local' or 'historical' names like Knicks/Knickerbockers, Canucks, Pacers, Blue Jackets, Sounders, Maulers, Nittany Lions, Boilermakers, and Dodgers. Hell, half the people in the country (well, half the men and probably a higher percentage of women, to be honest) probably couldn't tell you what a Piston is, and why it is appropriate for Detroit (their beginning in Ft. Wayne notwithstanding).

 

If you give them a often-seen logo that gives it away-- the Celtics' Irishman, or the Cavaliers' sword/hat for instance-- they can make the connection.  Otherwise we'd have to stick to basic Lions and Tigers and Bears and Eagles and Hawks, oh my!  

Took me awhile to figure out bengals were a type of tiger as a kid. I thought they just liked dressing up as them until I found out what a bengal tiger was some time in middle school.

[Ted Cunningham]

To continue the meandering of this thread (because, thanks to this thread, I read the whole Wikipedia article describing the Donner Party's ordeal): I don't find it all that surprising that Californians would be more familiar with American history that took place in California. In my West-Virginia-public-school education, I'm fairly certain Donner Pass was mentioned in the unit of American history that included Lewis and Clark, Sooners, the Oregon Trail, Conestoga wagons, pioneers, and sod dugout houses, etc. I know I was familiar with its significance in the same way as those other topics (i.e. having a general knowledge of it), so I am guessing it was covered at the same time as the rest of "westward expansion" and Manifest Destiny.

 

To my first point, though: West Virginians generally have a decent grasp on the history of the state simply because every 8th grader takes West Virginia history as their social studies/history course for that year. (This includes not only straight history of the state, but also learning about the geography, civics, and government of the state. It's arguably useful not just for history and context, but for understanding how to operate as a citizen within the state, later in life. Whether that's effective is mixed though, as a lot of West Virginia history is still spent glorifying the coal industry and pining in vain for its return because the old guard of politicians, influenced by the coal and other extraction lobbies, selects what is put into the books. But I digress.) So a not entirely one-to-one example of an event from West Virginia history that West Virginians might know more of or more details about, while those not from the state would simply be aware that it happened, would be John Brown's raid on Harpers Ferry. That was part of American history and obviously had an impact beyond what became West Virginia, so it would likely be addressed when discussing the beginnings of the Civil War in many locales across the country. However, it took place in what became part of the West Virginia and preceded a conflict that partially gave birth to the state, so it's given more focus in West Virginia history.

[BBTV]

I've always wondered why West Virginia wouldn't change its name, considering Virginia isn't "East" Virginia.  It's not like they're referred to as the "Virginias" in the same way that we say "The Carolinas" or "The Dakotas".  Wouldn't they want their own unique identity?

[sky1324]

I remember taking a unit on NC history in 3rd Grade, we focused on the Native American tribes and early years of the state/colony. It was neat, I'd like to take something like it again at a higher level. My parents are from Baltimore, and they (and I'm sure most of you Northerners) were taught that Saratoga was the major turning point of the American Revolution, whereas in NC and the South, it's King's Mountain, a battle fought near Charlotte (I've been to the battleground, it's a very nice area and the museum is really neat) where 1/3 of Cornwallis' invading army was destroyed. I thankfully never received the Southern stereotypical Civil War history, but I think that's because I didn't go to a normal public school until my high school years. 

 

This really boils down to each state having control over their own standards for education, meaning they'll emphasize their own history over other states. I'd actually like to know how many of you know about the Wilmington Coup, the only successful military coup on American soil. I encourage you to look it up, it's important to know about in my opinion. I didn't learn about it until my AP US History class, which is wild, since I live in North Carolina. 

[The_Admiral]

8 minutes ago, BringBackTheVet said:

I've always wondered why West Virginia wouldn't change its name, considering Virginia isn't "East" Virginia.  It's not like they're referred to as the "Virginias" in the same way that we say "The Carolinas" or "The Dakotas".  Wouldn't they want their own unique identity?

 

I think the seceding counties (kind of a meta-secession, I suppose) argued over it and decided they wanted to keep Virginia in the name because they were proud of their heritage before the state went rogue. I guess it's like Taiwan seeing itself as the continuation of the Republic of China, roughly.

[guest23]

As a CA native that took AP history in the mid 90's we spent half a semester on the puritans and was brow beaten with the colonial myth that the american ethos is somehow rooted in these religious nutsos. They were somehow revered in their exceptionalism when in reality they left England because they were deemed loons and extremists.

[The_Admiral]

 

Look at this WordArt-ass type path, if it sinks any further there will be no "I" in "Washington"

[oldschoolvikings]

3 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:

That sounds crazy to me that kids don’t learn about it outside of CA/the western states.

 

I assume they are teaching it at culinary schools.

[SFGiants58]

3 minutes ago, oldschoolvikings said:

 

I assume they are teaching it at culinary schools.