PittsburghSucks

2020 NFL Season

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55 minutes ago, AustinFromBoston said:

Didn't Peyton have a garbage rookie season? 

There's definitely an adjustment period between playing in College & the NFL. 

 

Would Mahomes have been as great if he didn't sit for a year? Would he still have an MVP season if he started in 2017? 

 

That depends on how you look at it. The Colts in 1998 ended the season 3-13. 

 

In Manning's rookie season he passed for 3,739 yards with 26 touchdowns and set the rookie record for most touchdown passes in a season. But he also set the rookie record for most interceptions in a rookie year. So his first season was definitely one of adjustment, but I don't know that I'd call it garbage. The Colts then went 13–3 the next year, Manning threw for 4,135 yards (so about 400 more), and repeated his 26 TDs but with 15 picks instead of 28. 

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You guys are really making football out to be more complicated than it is.  If a team has a garbage OL and doesn't want to put their rookie QB out there behind it, then where do they draw the line?  If it still sucks the next year, do they sit him again?  Then the year after?  Is the starter - usually a veteran journeyman - really sitting the rookie down and "teaching" him?  If he was good enough to be a good teacher, maybe they wouldn't have had to draft a replacement.

 

It's freaking football- and it's not like they've never played it before!  I understand the game is faster at the pro level and all that, but you learn from experience.  If a guy is a "project" and they really want to work on his mechanics or beef him up or something then I get sitting him.  But other than that, just throw him out there - at least half of his first season.  

 

I do understand that QB is different than OG or LB, and it might take a little bit of time to learn how to read NFL defenses, but again - it's not rocket science, and guys have done it just fine right out of school.  If a QB's psyche(sp?) is so fragile that an initial failure kills his confidence, then he's not the leader you want for your team anyway.

 

Again - it's football - not surgery.  Killers, rapists, child abusers, and jewelry thieves can all figure it out (and that's just Andy Reid's players!).  Just play.  

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Three reasons you see fewer redshirt years from top pick QBs than you used to:

1. the rookie payscale means you get 4 years of a relatively cheap QB and you don't want to waste any of those with him on the bench. The giant money that used to all go to Sam Bradford now gets spread around to courting free agents and extending the stars you already had. Previously the top picks would sign huge and long deals and the team would look at it more like a long term investment of a high priced commodity. Now, though, you gotta strike while the iron's hot before the good guy gets super expensive.

 

2. college offenses are closer to the pros than they were 10, 15, 20 years ago. College defenses are closer to what the QBs see in the pros than they were 10, 15, 20 years ago. There's not as much for these guys to learn. People have said Joe Burrow was going to struggle without a true preseason and he was like "nah it's not really that different than college." and was fine. 

 

3. Flip side is you want to know what you have. If you sit a guy for a year and it turns out he blows when you do start him in year 2 then you've wasted two years instead of 1. You can thank the Cardinals for that. 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Sport said:

2. college offenses are closer to the pros than they were 10, 15, 20 years ago. College defenses are closer to what the QBs see in the pros than they were 10, 15, 20 years ago. There's not as much for these guys to learn. People have said Joe Burrow was going to struggle without a true preseason and he was like "nah it's not really that different than college." and was fine.

 

That's a good point.  I remember back when you'd never see an option in the NFL and people said it was because 1) the players on defense are too fast, and 2) the hash marks are different.  I don't watch college football now, but I assume there's not many teams playing like the old Nebraska teams did where it was "option left" or "option right" all day long.  It probably is a lot closer of a game now, and while defensive closing speed is absolutely better in the NFL, I think that some of the D1 teams basically are NFL teams at this point, so QBs from schools in the major conferences are probably used to at least some of what they're now seeing at the pro level.

 

Coaching in the NFL has changed a lot too.  There's no longer a 5-year plan.  You need to win now or get fired, so they're more willing to tailor their playbooks to their new QB's strengths rather than give him 3 years to learn it.

 

Andy Reid used to say that it took receivers 3 years to learn his playbook.  Seriously - he said that.  That's why up until they got TO, McNabb had nobody to throw the ball to.  Funny how TO figured it out in one offseason.  News flash - good players are good, and bad players are bad.  F your playbook and plays that take 35 seconds to communicate.  I wish he was here in front of me so I could laugh in his gross face.

 

Andy Reid and the Chiefs are just two of the many reasons why my flag only has 49 stars and why I'll be deep in the cold cold ground before I recognize Missourah.

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7 hours ago, BBTV said:

That's a good point.  I remember back when you'd never see an option in the NFL and people said it was because 1) the players on defense are too fast, and 2) the hash marks are different.  I don't watch college football now, but I assume there's not many teams playing like the old Nebraska teams did where it was "option left" or "option right" all day long.

You'd be correct, good man.  Hell, even Nebraska hasn't played like the old Nebraska in years.  About the only good major team that I'd describe as the run-all-day type that can destroy most teams, but is usually completely screwed if the other team can actually stop them consistently, is Wisconsin, and they almost never run option.

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8 hours ago, Discrim said:

You'd be correct, good man.  Hell, even Nebraska hasn't played like the old Nebraska in years.  About the only good major team that I'd describe as the run-all-day type that can destroy most teams, but is usually completely screwed if the other team can actually stop them consistently, is Wisconsin, and they almost never run option.

 

Speaking of Wisconsin and running, the last time I was really in to college football was when Ron Dayne was the man.  

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16 hours ago, BBTV said:

 

Andy Reid used to say that it took receivers 3 years to learn his playbook.  Seriously - he said that.  That's why up until they got TO, McNabb had nobody to throw the ball to.  Funny how TO figured it out in one offseason.  News flash - good players are good, and bad players are bad.  F your playbook and plays that take 35 seconds to communicate.  I wish he was here in front of me so I could laugh in his gross face.

 

Along these lines I remember a mid-major college basketball coach (but can't remember which coach) saying that his offensive system was so complex that he liked players to redshirt because it took until their third year before they picked it up and I've always thought that was such a Jerk Off Motion approach to coaching. Like that's just him being a hard-on and trying to look like some Bill Walsh genius when really if it takes college kids that long to grasp your system then your system is needlessly complicated and you're a dingdong. It's sports, not NASA. 

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1 hour ago, Sport said:

if it takes college kids that long to grasp your system then your system is needlessly complicated and you're a dingdong. It's sports, not NASA. 

 

 

To be fair, most of these "college kids" aren't in college due to their intellectual potential, so maybe it did take some of them three years to understand how to run a post pattern.

 

But yeah - if you're a player, what is so complex about running the plays that you're taught?  Maybe it's a complex system overall, but on any given week, the playbook is relatively limited, so all you need to do as a player is understand the read for any given play and then just run your pattern for that play.

 

I can't believe that they're up at the line of scrimmage runnin through some complex algorithm "if player X is in position A, then read player Y.  If player Y is in position B, then run pattern lambda, unless player Z is in position C, in which case execute pattern gamma version 1, unless player Z is wearing a wrist band on his left hand, in which case do three cartwheels when the ball is snapped and then fake an end around and then run pattern gamma version 2, but if the defense lineman that's lined up over the right guard seems a little tired, then run a fly pattern regardless of what player X, Y, and Z are doing, but if said DL is wearing black cleats, then cut the fly pattern short and come back to the QB, but solve three calculous problems before cutting off the route.  Here's 10 calculous problems, but the three you need to solve will be based on whether you're reading player X, Y, or Z.   

 

And that's all just for a planned QB draw!

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I've never played organized football but I have played a lot of Madden football, especially on Sega Genesis but a little bit on current gen consoles as well.

 

Stupid but half-serious question: If you can read a Madden playbook in a video game, are you that far removed from being able to do similar on the field?

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4 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

I've never played organized football but I have played a lot of Madden football, especially on Sega Genesis but a little bit on current gen consoles as well.

 

Stupid but half-serious question: If you can read a Madden playbook in a video game, are you that far removed from being able to do similar on the field?

 

As a QB or offensive lineman, there's probably a lot more that goes into your specific reads and progressions, but for a skill position guy?  Should be pretty easy - you're either running your pattern (WR) or hitting your hole (RB), with maybe an easy read or two along the way.

 

We've had this discussions on the boards before, but the idiotic notions that coaches need to sleep in the office and work 25 hours a day to figure out how to create a mismatch between a TE and LB are just that - idiotic.  Coaches have bought into their own hype as geniuses and scientists, and take themselves way more seriously than they should.  If you have good players, then you should be able to just have a simple game plan and trust that your players are better than the other team's.  It's really not that hard to create mismatches - Tony Romo points out how it's done all the time.

 

 

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I think a lot of these coaches just 1. hate their families and 2. like being told by their staff how awesome and smart they are. 32 egoist dictators across the league; some worse than others.

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53 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

I've never played organized football but I have played a lot of Madden football, especially on Sega Genesis but a little bit on current gen consoles as well.

 

Stupid but half-serious question: If you can read a Madden playbook in a video game, are you that far removed from being able to do similar on the field?

I've never played Madden or organized football.

 

I'd be willing to bet the answer to your question is that, yes, you are far removed from doing it in real life.

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1 hour ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

I've never played organized football but I have played a lot of Madden football, especially on Sega Genesis but a little bit on current gen consoles as well.

 

Stupid but half-serious question: If you can read a Madden playbook in a video game, are you that far removed from being able to do similar on the field?

 

I can tell you that two things you don't do on video games is have to huddle and call plays to 10 other players, nor do you have to set protections and diagnose potential blitzers. That's a big deal, to put it lightly, in real-life football, so that is something you can only figure out with practice and playbook understanding.

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I might not know how to play football, but I do know the NFL yanking teams around with COVID protocols is a disaster. Tomorrow's Ravens/Steelers game -- the only one worth watching -- has been moved to Sunday.

 

 

Lucky for the Cowboys, they'll get a week off between tomorrow and the following Thursday's game against the Ravens. But guess who now just gets three days rest? The NFL is working hard to give a scheduling loss to Baltimore, the same way they handed the Bills one earlier this season.

 

I don't know how to make all of this work, though I think had the NFL forfeited those Titans games rather than blow up the rest of the league's schedule, some of the COVID precautions may have been taken a lot more seriously. Instead we get this.

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2 hours ago, BBTV said:

 

 

To be fair, most of these "college kids" aren't in college due to their intellectual potential, so maybe it did take some of them three years to understand how to run a post pattern.

 

But yeah - if you're a player, what is so complex about running the plays that you're taught?  Maybe it's a complex system overall, but on any given week, the playbook is relatively limited, so all you need to do as a player is understand the read for any given play and then just run your pattern for that play.

 

I can't believe that they're up at the line of scrimmage runnin through some complex algorithm "if player X is in position A, then read player Y.  If player Y is in position B, then run pattern lambda, unless player Z is in position C, in which case execute pattern gamma version 1, unless player Z is wearing a wrist band on his left hand, in which case do three cartwheels when the ball is snapped and then fake an end around and then run pattern gamma version 2, but if the defense lineman that's lined up over the right guard seems a little tired, then run a fly pattern regardless of what player X, Y, and Z are doing, but if said DL is wearing black cleats, then cut the fly pattern short and come back to the QB, but solve three calculous problems before cutting off the route.  Here's 10 calculous problems, but the three you need to solve will be based on whether you're reading player X, Y, or Z.   

 

And that's all just for a planned QB draw!

Seems easy enough

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2 hours ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

I've never played organized football but I have played a lot of Madden football, especially on Sega Genesis but a little bit on current gen consoles as well.

 

Stupid but half-serious question: If you can read a Madden playbook in a video game, are you that far removed from being able to do similar on the field?

As a WR, all you are listening for is what your number is which indicates what route you’re running unless it’s a run play then there will be no numbers, then as a RB and lineman you are listening for which letter indicating what gap you are running. Also the formation you are running precedes everything. The option stuff came about after I graduated high school so I don’t know how that goes.

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HAHA STFU you moron.  Just say "you run straight, you fat guys block their fat guys, and everyone else just runaround and try to get them to follow you.

 

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This one is actually informative and worth watching (at least the first half... which is all I watched).   Brian Billick gets it - "sometimes as coaches, we might add more words than we need because it sounds good.  It makes us sound more intelligent - like we're speaking a language that only we understand".

 

Mike Holmgren sounds like a total ass and is obviously where Andy Reid got his "it takes three years before a WR really knows the system" from.  He's saying you can't trust a young receiver that doesn't have years in the system because there's so much terminology that says how to motion, what pattern to run, who to block, and if they make even one mistake, you'll lose a game.  He's a freaking idiot.  Maybe good players can make good things happen even if they don't motion to the exact blade of grass your 500-word play indicated.  Ass.

 

 

 

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On 11/24/2020 at 10:29 AM, Sec19Row53 said:

Cheating the salary cap is done by deferring too many/much payments. If you aren't in compliance with the salary cap, you're cheating.

 

They didn't violate the cap. They violated the collective bargaining agreement, which prevents owners from deferring too many payments. It is designed to protect teams from bad owners.

 

Quote

I think a lot of these coaches just 1. hate their families and 2. like being told by their staff how awesome and smart they are. 32 egoist dictators across the league; some worse than others.

 

Exactly.

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1 hour ago, DnBronc said:

 

They didn't violate the cap. They violated the collective bargaining agreement, which prevents owners from deferring too many payments. It is designed to protect teams from bad owners.

 

 

Exactly.

So they broke the rules by deferring payments and violating the salary cap.

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