PittsburghSucks

2020 NFL Season

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1 hour ago, dont care said:

1st overall draft picks make less than 9 million a year. It’s fairly small when you see teams paying that much for their backups. It’s worth the risk to get some energy into a franchise and build the team around them in the time before they need to give him another contract. Also it’s not like they don’t have the draft capital or salary cap room to build a team around them.

 

And that's the other issue Jacksonville has long had....they got it right the first time out of the gate, and haven't learned since (except briefly with post-Leftwich David Garrard).  Nothing I've seen from them of late suggests they know how to actually build a franchise, let alone a sustainable winner on the field; they just keep chasing short-term band-aid solutions.

 

I know it's been much lampooned thanks to certain events up in Philadelphia, but if that franchise ever hopes to attain to stability and sustainability, they really need to get a solid plan in place and then commit to the process*. That starts with the right executives in place at the top, to set the standards and culture of expectations of success (and that, more than anything, is what's needed down there--a full scale culture change; drafting Trevor Lawrence by itself ain't gonna do that), and then hiring the right coaches, not just some yes-men or "local legends" (like Urban Meyer, just to appease thr fantasy ny association). There's a reason why clubs like Green Bay and Pittsburgh, Baltimore and now Kansas City have sustained levels of stability and success: it's indicative of the culture.  Then there's reasons why clubs like Detroit and Jacksonville keep, well...being Detroit and Jacksonville--again, it's the culture. The question is: what type of culture is in place? Figure that out, right that ship, and watch the rest fall into place.

 

*This also all hinges on Super Mario Khan being willing to make the right investments and also staying out of the way of the football people and letting them do their jobs.

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32 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

I wonder if the NFL might fine them for this. Probably not, but I think when it's obvious you're using regular season games to figure out what you have going forward there needs to be some type of punishment. 

 

Until there's some incentive put in place to encourage trying, they won't be able to legislate tanking (or, more accurately, "not trying your hardest to win") from the game.

 

In this case, the Eagles are basically "playing god" by determining who wins the NFC East, and if I was Dallas or the NYG I'd be pissed about it.  IDK what the solution is.

 

What if - and believe me... this is just a "what if" - the league said that the draft order is set after week 16, and all the non-playoff team can get an extra 3rd or 4th round pick if they win their week 17 game?  That's still in line with the point of the draft, which is to help crappy teams get better, and incentivises teams to play hard on week 17.

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2 minutes ago, BBTV said:

 

Until there's some incentive put in place to encourage trying, they won't be able to legislate tanking (or, more accurately, "not trying your hardest to win") from the game.

 

In this case, the Eagles are basically "playing god" by determining who wins the NFC East, and if I was Dallas or the NYG I'd be pissed about it.  IDK what the solution is.

 

What if - and believe me... this is just a "what if" - the league said that the draft order is set after week 16, and all the non-playoff team can get an extra 3rd or 4th round pick if they win their week 17 game?  That's still in line with the point of the draft, which is to help crappy teams get better, and incentivises teams to play hard on week 17.

I'd take the punitive approach and drop them down in the draft, since they can't be docked points like in soccer. 

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4 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

I'd take the punitive approach and drop them down in the draft, since they can't be docked points like in soccer. 

 

Can't do that, because the teams are in that situation because they're legitimately not good, so the chances are they'd lose even if they tried.  And if the league were to fine teams for benching hurt players (guys that are legit hurt, but not really "injured" and would have played if the game mattered) then the NFLPA would cry about the league not caring about player health and safety.

 

EDIT: basically, you can incentivize winning, but can't punish losing.

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Just now, BBTV said:

 

Can't do that, because the teams are in that situation because they're legitimately not good, so the chances are they'd lose even if they tried.  And if the league were to fine teams for benching hurt players (guys that are legit hurt, but not really "injured" and would have played if the game mattered) then the NFLPA would cry about the league not caring about player health and safety.

Good point. a lot of what they can and cannot do would be determined by the CBA.

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19 minutes ago, BBTV said:

 

 

What if - and believe me... this is just a "what if" - the league said that the draft order is set after week 16, and all the non-playoff team can get an extra 3rd or 4th round pick if they win their week 17 game?  That's still in line with the point of the draft, which is to help crappy teams get better, and incentivises teams to play hard on week 17.

 

That's actually a really interesting idea, because it's less about "tanking" and addresses the competitive issues that seem to always crop up in the last game. I wonder if there would be something similar someone could come up with to address playoff teams sitting their starters in the last game, which causes the same issues for teams trying to secure a spot.

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54 minutes ago, DNAsports said:


Retiring?

Drew Brees (NO)

Alex Smith (WAS)

Philip Rivers (IND)

Ben Roethlisberger (PIT)

Tom Brady (TB)

Rivers, Ben, and Brady have all mentioned returning next season

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These draft fixes getting too complex. Just go pure sortition.

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I know this is probably not going to matter, but whatever.

 

I want McCarthy's head to roll.

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6 minutes ago, Dalcowboyfan92 said:

I know this is probably not going to matter, but whatever.

 

I want McCarthy's head to roll.

Considering the team just signed OC Kellen Moore to an extension to keep him from going to the college ranks, do you think they could axe McCarthy at season’s end and promote Moore to HC?

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I'm so excited for a 6-10 NFC East champion. Come one Giants and Eagles! You can do it!

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1 hour ago, oldschoolvikings said:

 

That's actually a really interesting idea, because it's less about "tanking" and addresses the competitive issues that seem to always crop up in the last game. I wonder if there would be something similar someone could come up with to address playoff teams sitting their starters in the last game, which causes the same issues for teams trying to secure a spot.

 

I don't think it's possible to actually force teams to play their players.  I'm not even sure how you'd word any kind of incentive program.

 

You could do something like calculating how many snaps players have played up through week 16, and then say that those players need to play a proportionate number of snaps in the final game and then the team will earn an extra 5th or 6th round pick, but there's a lot of math involved, a lot of ways to get around it, and it's just too complex.  

 

The best you can do is make incentives for bad teams to try rather than tank.  I guarantee the Eagles would be fighting for that extra 3rd round pick tonight instead of resting anyone with any chance of helping them win.

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1 minute ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

I'm so excited for a 6-10 NFC East champion. Come one Giants and Eagles! You can do it!

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16 minutes ago, DNAsports said:

Considering the team just signed OC Kellen Moore to an extension to keep him from going to the college ranks, do you think they could axe McCarthy at season’s end and promote Moore to HC?

 

Possibly. It makes a lot of sense considering who's calling the shots. But after the lost decade with The Crimson Clapper, and the tepid reaction from the fan base with the McCarthy hire; Jerry is fully ready to die on the hill he made for himself.

 

Admitting failure is just something he doesn't like to do, you know?

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1 minute ago, BBTV said:

 

I don't think it's possible to actually force teams to play their players.  I'm not even sure how you'd word any kind of incentive program.

 

You could do something like calculating how many snaps players have played up through week 16, and then say that those players need to play a proportionate number of snaps in the final game and then the team will earn an extra 5th or 6th round pick, but there's a lot of math involved, a lot of ways to get around it, and it's just too complex.  

 

The best you can do is make incentives for bad teams to try rather than tank.  I guarantee the Eagles would be fighting for that extra 3rd round pick tonight instead of resting anyone with any chance of helping them win.

41-50% of snaps = 5th or 6th Round Pick

51-60% of snaps = 3rd or 4th Round Pick

 

That seems likely a reasonable ask out of starters

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At a certain point, you either legislation any spontaneity out of the game, or just live with variance. I'm happy to live with variance.

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43 minutes ago, DNAsports said:

41-50% of snaps = 5th or 6th Round Pick

51-60% of snaps = 3rd or 4th Round Pick

 

That seems likely a reasonable ask out of starters

 

The problem is who decides who's a "starter" and teams could play schemes where a player technically "starts" but maybe only plays 30% of snaps.

 

It's too hard, and as a fan, I'd be pissed of my player got hurt in a meaningless (to us) game and missed the playoffs.

 

13 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

At a certain point, you either legislation any spontaneity out of the game, or just live with variance. I'm happy to live with variance.

 

I think we have a different definition of "spontaneity".  The WFTs had to basically only play 15 games, whilst their rivals are still playing hard on week 17.  How is that fair?  It's not - and weren't you one of the ones talking about how unfair it would be for one team to have an extra home game when they go to the 17-game season?  A team flat out giving up in week 17 does more to skew competitive balance than teams having uneven numbers of home and road games.

 

 

It's a very simple plan:

The standings as of the end of week 16 are used for draft order.  Non-playoff teams are rewarded with extra 3rd-round picks (just like those compensatory picks) for winning in week 17.  Obviously many teams will not yet be eliminated until after week 17 and will be playing hard regardless, but they'd still get the benefit of the extra pick if they play hard and win but didn't get the help they needed from other teams.  Very simple.

 

 

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The Patriots won 18 out of 20 division titles because the AFC East was garbage, and then they scooted directly to AFC CGs year over year. I'm very familiar with division imbalance. But I also know that for every season the Seahawks need to go 12-4 or 13-3 to win the division, they also backdoor themselves into hosting a 7-9 home playoff game.

 

If the NFL adds your rule, so be it. I'll still watch. But at the same time, I think it's an overcorrection based on a historically bad year for the NFC East. It's the first year of Ron RIveria, Dallas was decimated by injuries, Philly didn't realize who its QB should be until too late, and the Giants are in the midst of a ten-year tailspin. Not all of those conditions will repeat themselves next year.

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In honor of Cobra Kai, no mercy is being shown by the Bills to the Dolphins.

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I found this useless piece of information interesting,

 

In the 2010-11 playoffs, the 7-9 division champion Seahawks hosted the NFC South second place 11-5 Saints. Seattle went on to win that game.

 

Fast forward 10 years, the 6-9 division leading Washington Football Team has a chance to finish 7-9 and host the NFC South second place Buccaneers who could very well finish 11-5.

 

Could history repeat itself?

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