2020 NFL Season

[Red Comet]

It's not even karma so much as it is Belichick trying to recapture the old magic. 

 

Patriot fans are going to be very miserable for the next few years barring another Tom Brady-esque player somehow showing up. Fact is Belichick was 5-13 with the Patriots until Brady started for him. Should've just ridden off into the sunset.

 

Now? We realize that Bill Belichick is the greatest fraud ever perpetrated on the NFL.

[AustinFromBoston]

For all the :censored: Patricia gets (which is deserved) it was his defense that won the Patriots 2 rings. 

 

2 minutes ago, Red Comet said:

Patriot fans are going to be very miserable for the next few years barring another Tom Brady-esque player somehow showing up. Fact is Belichick was 5-13 with the Patriots until Brady started for him. Should've just ridden off into the sunset.

Are we pretending Belichick isn't a good coach now?

[Red Comet]

 

 

 

26 minutes ago, AustinFromBoston said:

For all the Patricia gets (which is deserved) it was his defense that won the Patriots 2 rings. 

 

Are we pretending Belichick isn't a good coach now?

 

He is 58-71 without having Brady start not counting the garbage week 17 games where the Pats are trotting out some project. I wouldn't say he isn't a great coach by achievements, but I am going to say that those achievements are more Tom Brady's than Bill Bilichick's. A lot more. The Patriots are 7-9 this year with largely the same roster minus Brady and the Bucs are in the NFC Championship Game. I'd say the results are self-evident.

 

Math? I'm taking the 36-44 record in Cleveland, the 5-13 record in New England from 00-first 2 games of 2001 and the 2008 season where Matt Cassel went 10-5 as a starter and not only beat the Chiefs in the 08 Season Opener but also 

 

somehow impress Chiefs owner Clark Hunt enough to not only have Matt Cassel be our starting quarterback for 4 seasons due to being impressed that a backup QB didn't take an all-time great roster and crap the bed, he also hired Scott Pioli as a GM and made Todd Haley a head coach. They were claiming to be big on morality but were really just authoritarian self-righteous pricks way in over their head. Go figure how that works.

[AustinFromBoston]

18 minutes ago, Red Comet said:

 

He is 58-71 without having Brady start not counting the garbage week 17 games where the Pats are trotting out some project. I wouldn't say he isn't a great coach by achievements, but I am going to say that those achievements are more Tom Brady's than Bill Bilichick's. A lot more. The Patriots are 7-9 this year with largely the same roster minus Brady and the Bucs are in the NFC Championship Game. I'd say the results are self-evident.

This "largely the same roster as last" argument is crap. The Patriots had more COVID opt outs than any team, including top players on defense (Chung & Hightower) not to mention losing Edelman for most of the season. Oh, and Brady's replacement could barely throw a football. The fact they managed a 7-9 record (which easily could have been 9-7 if 1 or 2 plays went differently) is crazy. Brady or not, the team was flat out trash in almost every aspect. That's why he left. It was honestly one of the worst teams Belichick has had. 

 

Belichick in his 21 years of coaching the Patriots, has only had 2 seasons where he didn't have Brady. And 1 of those seasons they only missed the playoffs because of a tiebreaker. 

Not exactly fair to judge him on that small sample size. 

 

Needless to say comparing it to Brady leaving for a stacked Tampa team with AB, Gronk, Godwin, & JPP, is beyond satirical. 

[Lana_del_Bae]

Belichick being a System Coach is quite the hot take

[Brass]

51 minutes ago, Red Comet said:

We realize that Bill Belichick is the greatest fraud ever perpetrated on the NFL.

 

That's a bit extreme. I like to think I'm respected enough in the NFL threads to not get a "typical Boston fan" label, but I do have to stick up for my team here. You also represent a very small fringe of crazy-thinking on this board and I understand no amount of data or perspective will change your mind, but...

 

The greatest fraud ever perpetrated on the NFL? That's not even a bit superfluous? Pardon my lack of overall NFL-historical knowledge, but has there ever been a coach who succeeded but didn't have a good roster of players? I could definitely be wrong, but I doubt there is. Aren't professional sports teams successful because all elements of their team (coaches, star players, role players, etc.) compete at the highest level and work cohesively? Isn't that was makes a great coach? Wouldn't a great coach be the one who utilized the best aspects of their star players and put their role players into situations to succeed? If so, Belichick is one of the greatest coaches, not frauds, in NFL history.

 

If your argument is "Bill Belichick is only good because he had Brady" then the argument that Phil Jackson (after all, he had Jordan/Pippen, and then Kobe/Shaq) is the greatest fraud ever perpetrated on the NBA holds merit. That's an avenue you can't even begin to venture down...

[SFGiants58]

He’s not the greatest fraud. George Seifert was.

 

 

Taking him out of SF really demonstrated what a glorified cheerleader he was.

[BBTV]

17 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

He’s not the greatest fraud. George Seifert was.

 

Barry Switzer says howdy.

 

 

[Rockstar Matt]

On 1/21/2021 at 7:29 AM, DNAsports said:

While we’re talking about players who need to be in the HOF, one comes to mind immediately who will likely be a snub

While I believe that Fletcher is a Hall of Fame LB and should get in at some point, that graphic is so misleading. It’s made to seem like Fletcher was nearly as good as Ray Lewis which is just flat out false. 
 

Because of injuries, Lewis played nearly two full seasons less than Fletcher but despite that he has 20 more tackles, the same amount of forced fumbles, 8 more INT’s and basically 3 more sacks. 
 

Again, in two seasons less than Fletcher.
 

Don’t get me wrong, it’s damn impressive that Fletcher played in every single game in every season in his career and put up the numbers he did. That’s what makes him a HOF LB in my opinion. 
 

But Lewis was a better LB and it’s not close. 

[DG_ThenNowForever]

They should add murders to that comparison.

[Rockstar Matt]

Lmaoo. That alone would make the graphic infinitely better. 

[Sec19Row53]

2 hours ago, Brass said:

 

That's a bit extreme. I like to think I'm respected enough in the NFL threads to not get a "typical Boston fan" label, but I do have to stick up for my team here. You also represent a very small fringe of crazy-thinking on this board and I understand no amount of data or perspective will change your mind, but...

 

The greatest fraud ever perpetrated on the NFL? That's not even a bit superfluous? Pardon my lack of overall NFL-historical knowledge, but has there ever been a coach who succeeded but didn't have a good roster of players? I could definitely be wrong, but I doubt there is. Aren't professional sports teams successful because all elements of their team (coaches, star players, role players, etc.) compete at the highest level and work cohesively? Isn't that was makes a great coach? Wouldn't a great coach be the one who utilized the best aspects of their star players and put their role players into situations to succeed? If so, Belichick is one of the greatest coaches, not frauds, in NFL history.

 

If your argument is "Bill Belichick is only good because he had Brady" then the argument that Phil Jackson (after all, he had Jordan/Pippen, and then Kobe/Shaq) is the greatest fraud ever perpetrated on the NBA holds merit. That's an avenue you can't even begin to venture down...

It's too early to tell. If the Patriots never return to GOOD under Belichick (gosh I never spell his name right) AND Brady leads the Bucs to success, it will make for an interesting debate.

 

Yes to Barry Switzer as Fraud1

[GDAWG]

3 hours ago, BBTV said:

 

Barry Switzer says howdy.

 

 

 

he continued to be an embarrassment to all coaches everywhere when he started to scream like a maniac when he took the Lombardi Trophy.  It was only one of many.

[oldschoolvikings]

I'm no fan of Belichick especially, but calling him a fraud is a rather embarrassing case of sour grapes.

[DG_ThenNowForever]

On 1/21/2021 at 1:15 PM, Sport said:

 

I got a real LOL out of this line from an article about him: "According to the Inquirer's Jeff McLane, an NFL source described Sirianni as “fairly smart but not super smart” but he's “likely to top out at a B-level coach for a team that is in the mix to make the playoffs.”

 

 

 

The comments are what might you expect to see.

 

On the other hand, I did about 6 job interviews be this month. Granted, I'm doing them from home, but the thought about putting on a tie never crossed my mind.

 

In my field, wearing a suit would get you laughed out of the building. And it kind of feels like that's where the NFL is now too.

[Lights Out]

Belichick is overrated, but he's not the "biggest fraud ever," let's be real now. Norv Turner is the biggest fraud and it's not even close. He was given multiple undeserved head coaching jobs and an even more undeserved reputation as an "offensive genius," all because he had Aikman, Irvin, Smith, and a stout O-line to work with for a few years. Anyone would look like a genius with a team that stacked. Norv was the Eric Bieniemy of his era.

 

For me, the biggest reason to be skeptical of Belichick isn't even just his record without Brady, it's also the cheating scandals and the fact that his coaching/front office tree keeps failing miserably once they leave Foxboro. The "Patriot Way" turned the Broncos, Chiefs, and now the Texans into dumpster fires.

[oldschoolvikings]

5 minutes ago, Lights Out said:

 

 

For me, the biggest reason to be skeptical of Belichick isn't even just his record without Brady, it's also the cheating scandals and the fact that his coaching/front office tree keeps failing miserably once they leave Foxboro. The "Patriot Way" turned the Broncos, Chiefs, and now the Texans into dumpster fires.

 

You forgot the Lions. Matt Patricia might be the biggest coaching turd to ever fall off that tree.

[Lights Out]

4 minutes ago, oldschoolvikings said:

 

You forgot the Lions. Matt Patricia might be the biggest coaching turd to ever fall off that tree.

 

Patricia sucked, but the Lions have been a dumpster fire for over 60 years no matter who's coaching. You can't really blame it all on him as opposed to, say, the Texans, who were relatively drama-free until they started hiring the Patriots' hand-me-downs.

[SFGiants58]

Matt Patricia was both a symptom of the Ford family disease and symbolic of how poisonous the fruit of the Pats’ coaching tree can be. Bill O’Brien exemplifies the latter to a freakish extreme.

[Dalcowboyfan92]

Patricia was doomed to fail. He was sent to Detroit; aka NFL Siberia (sorry Cleveland, Detroit has been miserable far longer). Not to mention, the whole "Belichick disciples are notoriously awful head coaches" shtick, and you have a recipe for failure.

 

He tried to copy the formula for success that New England had, completely forgetting that it was in large part because of a generational QB and head coach combination, the likes of the which the league had seen maybe once, or twice before.

 

When you try to copy something, you often get watered down imitations. See Houston (under O'Brien), Detroit (under Patricia), Denver (under McDaniels), Kansas City and Cleveland (under Crennel).