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Racial Injustice's Impact on Sports


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On 8/30/2020 at 6:40 PM, DG_ThenNowForever said:

And if people want to throw China around LeBron's neck (which seems to be the only time those particular people ever care about China), then feel free to do that too. 

The antisemitic lyrics he blasted out onto social media is more my issue with him.

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8 minutes ago, IceCap said:

The antisemitic lyrics he blasted out onto social media is more my issue with him.

 

That's a fair critique!

1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said:

and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags

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33 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

That's a fair critique!

Look, I don't like James sucking up to Chinese corporate interests but he's not the ultimate evil there. The West as a whole is culpable for getting in bed with a regime as indefensible as the PRC. James- like any other businessman- is looking out for his bottom line. Yeah, LeBron James wanting everyone to shut up about police brutality in Hong Kong while leading the fight to end police brutality in the US is a bad look but he's not the devil in this scenario. He's got his heart in the right place here. It's just that he, like every other rich person with business interests in China, has a blind spot to that issue. I think we'd all wish he didn't, but he's not the cause of the problem.

 

The antisemitic thing is interesting, and a personal issue for me. One I like to talk about because to be frank? It seems like an awful lot of antisemitism gets a pass for whatever reason. And is only a problem anyone addresses when people force the issue.

 

So is LeBron James an antisemite? Honestly? I don't think so, but let's call it as it is; black culture in the US has a problem with Jews. Not so much in that it is inherently antisemitic (it's not) but that it as a culture doesn't understand how to talk about Jews, or Jewish issues.

Parallels are, of course, noticeable. Both Jews and black people (particularly black people in the US) have been through the ringer historically, and have suffered some pretty heinous treatment. And I think a lot of black people see the relative affluence of the Jewish population today and see the general success Jewish groups have had in banding together to fight antisemitism and they go "hey, we should be like that. That should be our model."
Which is all well and good, but then you get into this weird, uncomfortable space where you have black musicians writing lyrics about how Jews own all the money or whatever, and you have black cultural icons who tweet or post that stuff into the world, and in their minds it's a positive, affirming thing. Like "oh hey, here's this group that was oppressed, and they did well for themselves, these lyrics affirm that as something we should do for ourselves."

Problem is that stereotypes about "Jewish control of finances" or whathaveyou have been used to justify some of the heinous stuff Jews have had to endure. And that by putting this stuff out there black musicians and black cultural icons inadvertently further antisemitic stereotypes. That's the case with LeBron James. He was spreading lyrics written by 21savage, who apologized and basically said he wrote that song with the above in mind.

 

So in short? It's an awkward situation. There's this assumption that antisemitism isn't a problem anymore, and that's just not true (the second largest political party in the US' leading ally just managed to rid itself of a leader who couldn't empathize with Jewish people or see antisemitism as a problem). Regardless, perhaps no two groups of people should have as much common cause as Jewish people and black people. And yet this awkwardness exists. It's not malice, it's just talking past each other. Which is better than malice to be sure, but it needs to stop. And it starts with a degree of inter-community dialogue where everyone listens and learns.

 

That has nothing to do with people like DeSean Jackson and Stephen Jackson who are just, well, antisemitic bigots.

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3 hours ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

And again, the China thing is only ever used against LeBron as a way to mock him. No one speaking out against LeBron James with regard to China actually cares about Hong Kong or the Uyghur genocide. They enjoy knocking him down to prop up long-retired players who could have had LeBron's social reach but chose not to, or hate the NBA, or hate black people, or some other reason that has little to do with China or its varied populations.

 

1) I had close friends of the family living in Hong Kong, so I care about what China is doing to Hong Kong quite a bit

2) no personal stake in the genocide out west but I know well enough that putting people in concentration camps because the ethnic majority wants more living space is big trouble

3) Jordan doesn't need LeBron getting bounced on some supporting-a-hostile-empire technicality to remain the better player, if that's what you're getting at

4) LeBron James is not the NBA nor all black people

♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫

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I mean, the NBA in general/James in particular were pretty roundly criticized for bottling their respective takes on the Morey tweet situation. I thought that was obvious at the time, in the NBA media sphere.

 

Where that correct point becomes bad faith is pretty clear in this thread; this current action was started by the Bucks, a team Lebron does not play for, and it has led to at least a handful of clear action items and stated priorities. Then one guy comes in with a tenuously related at best “What about Lebron and China???” and we spend two-plus pages on this. It’s whataboutism, a total derail tactic and an All Lives Matter-ing of the past week’s happenings.

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12 hours ago, IceCap said:

The antisemitic lyrics he blasted out onto social media is more my issue with him.

I'm not familiar with that.  Is there a link?

Disclaimer: If this comment is about an NBA uniform from 2017-2018 or later, do not constitute a lack of acknowledgement of the corporate logo to mean anything other than "the corporate logo is terrible and makes the uniform significantly worse."

 

BADGERS TWINS VIKINGS TIMBERWOLVES WILD

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LeBron's done a lot of good things (and said a lot things about important things) and the problem with that is that the shut up and dribble crowd is going to hit him with purity tests...particularly since he's never been particularly well liked.  I wasn't fond of the China comments even if, to be frank, I wasn't really cognizant of the context (and I'm only now reading about the antisemitic lyrics). But I appreciate him using his clout to talk about the difficulties for blacks in America, knowing full well that a lot of people think having money disqualifies him from feeling that way.  It's a strange balance between avoiding hero-worship and appreciating someone using their stage.

 

As an aside, I hate that I'm supposed to hate LeBron and love people that remain neutral.  Sometimes there's no neutral; neutrality is by default the side of the oppressor. 

Disclaimer: If this comment is about an NBA uniform from 2017-2018 or later, do not constitute a lack of acknowledgement of the corporate logo to mean anything other than "the corporate logo is terrible and makes the uniform significantly worse."

 

BADGERS TWINS VIKINGS TIMBERWOLVES WILD

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Who says you're supposed to hate LeBron? Not Nike, they want you to love him. The NBA's media partners seem to be fans. He's starring in a remake of a beloved kids' movie. The "alternative media" of Deadspin has been fully devoted to glorifying him for years. Other than, like, Skip Bayless or maybe Clay Travis (I don't really have a copy of his positions handy but I can guess), no one with enough status or platform to tell you what you're supposed to think really hates LeBron. I think most people are neutral: an all-time great player, cool that he won with the Cavs, says dumb stuff sometimes. If anything, the idea that LeBron is constantly triumphing over hate is just more of that media complex cooking up narratives to bolster his legend. At least Jordan's imaginary enemies and perceived slights only existed in his own head so I didn't have to read them.

♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫

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I didn’t know anything about this until this morning, but is Alain Vigneault the next one to get cancelled?

 


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inquirer.com/flyers/flyers-alain-vigneault-black-lives-matter-20200829.html%3foutputType=amp

"The views expressed here are mine and do not reflect the official opinion of my employer or the organization through which the Internet was accessed."

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18 minutes ago, BBTV said:

I didn’t know anything about this until this morning, but is Alain Vigneault the next one to get cancelled?

 


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.inquirer.com/flyers/flyers-alain-vigneault-black-lives-matter-20200829.html%3foutputType=amp

 

He could have said a thousand things worse than "I'm too busy obsessing over line-matching like a freak to pay attention to current events while I'm sequestered for my high-paying high-pressure job." I think that in its own way drives people crazier than if he had said something really offensive and defended police brutality -- just being like "man I unno I'm busy" demeans the whole project.

♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫

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45 minutes ago, sportsfan7 said:

LeBron quoted some lyrics from a 21 Savage song on an IG story

My first thought "who the hell is 21 Savage."  I'm old.

 

My second is that it's worse than I thought.  I was thinking the lyrics might be subtle. I was wrong. Ignorant at best...

Disclaimer: If this comment is about an NBA uniform from 2017-2018 or later, do not constitute a lack of acknowledgement of the corporate logo to mean anything other than "the corporate logo is terrible and makes the uniform significantly worse."

 

BADGERS TWINS VIKINGS TIMBERWOLVES WILD

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12 minutes ago, OnWis97 said:

My second is that it's worse than I thought.  I was thinking the lyrics might be subtle. I was wrong. Ignorant at best...

As I said above it's ignorant...but it comes from this weird, and awkward place that exists between the black and Jewish communities. I'm not sure what else is needed beyond people just talking to each other and understanding where the other is coming from.

 

13 minutes ago, OnWis97 said:

My first thought "who the hell is 21 Savage."  I'm old.

 

aging matt damon GIF

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51 minutes ago, IceCap said:

As I said above it's ignorant...but it comes from this weird, and awkward place that exists between the black and Jewish communities. I'm not sure what else is needed beyond people just talking to each other and understanding where the other is coming from.

 

The sports and entertainment industries, about the only sectors of the American economy where black people are disproportionately represented at the upper echelons, basically consist of black people toiling under Jewish people. It's no wonder the ones who make it start developing wackadoodle theories about their superiors being monsters from outer space who came to Russia and body-snatched Jesus. Everyone hates their boss.

♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫

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11 hours ago, the admiral said:

 

The sports and entertainment industries, about the only sectors of the American economy where black people are disproportionately represented at the upper echelons, basically consist of black people toiling under Jewish people. It's no wonder the ones who make it start developing wackadoodle theories about their superiors being monsters from outer space who came to Russia and body-snatched Jesus. Everyone hates their boss.

My immediate superior at work is black. I like to think I have reasons to be annoyed with him beyond cooking up conspiracy theories about his ethnic group 😛

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On 9/1/2020 at 4:35 AM, IceCap said:

Look, I don't like James sucking up to Chinese corporate interests but he's not the ultimate evil there. The West as a whole is culpable for getting in bed with a regime as indefensible as the PRC. James- like any other businessman- is looking out for his bottom line. Yeah, LeBron James wanting everyone to shut up about police brutality in Hong Kong while leading the fight to end police brutality in the US is a bad look but he's not the devil in this scenario. He's got his heart in the right place here. It's just that he, like every other rich person with business interests in China, has a blind spot to that issue. I think we'd all wish he didn't, but he's not the cause of the problem.

 

The antisemitic thing is interesting, and a personal issue for me. One I like to talk about because to be frank? It seems like an awful lot of antisemitism gets a pass for whatever reason. And is only a problem anyone addresses when people force the issue.

 

So is LeBron James an antisemite? Honestly? I don't think so, but let's call it as it is; black culture in the US has a problem with Jews. Not so much in that it is inherently antisemitic (it's not) but that it as a culture doesn't understand how to talk about Jews, or Jewish issues.

Parallels are, of course, noticeable. Both Jews and black people (particularly black people in the US) have been through the ringer historically, and have suffered some pretty heinous treatment. And I think a lot of black people see the relative affluence of the Jewish population today and see the general success Jewish groups have had in banding together to fight antisemitism and they go "hey, we should be like that. That should be our model."
Which is all well and good, but then you get into this weird, uncomfortable space where you have black musicians writing lyrics about how Jews own all the money or whatever, and you have black cultural icons who tweet or post that stuff into the world, and in their minds it's a positive, affirming thing. Like "oh hey, here's this group that was oppressed, and they did well for themselves, these lyrics affirm that as something we should do for ourselves."

Problem is that stereotypes about "Jewish control of finances" or whathaveyou have been used to justify some of the heinous stuff Jews have had to endure. And that by putting this stuff out there black musicians and black cultural icons inadvertently further antisemitic stereotypes. That's the case with LeBron James. He was spreading lyrics written by 21savage, who apologized and basically said he wrote that song with the above in mind.

 

So in short? It's an awkward situation. There's this assumption that antisemitism isn't a problem anymore, and that's just not true (the second largest political party in the US' leading ally just managed to rid itself of a leader who couldn't empathize with Jewish people or see antisemitism as a problem). Regardless, perhaps no two groups of people should have as much common cause as Jewish people and black people. And yet this awkwardness exists. It's not malice, it's just talking past each other. Which is better than malice to be sure, but it needs to stop. And it starts with a degree of inter-community dialogue where everyone listens and learns.

 

That has nothing to do with people like DeSean Jackson and Stephen Jackson who are just, well, antisemitic bigots.

FWIW, LeBron posts rap lyrics on his IG stories like a college girl on spring break and he apologized  when made aware. And hip hop, especially the more ‘conscious’ artist (FWIW definitely not 21Savage), is rife with antisemitism (Jay Electronica, Lupe Fiasco immediately come to mind). There’s many of the issues outlined by the admiral at play here along with poor education about antisemitism in that it is basically reduced to the Holocaust without a discussion about how the persecution and tropes developed along with the religion- to-race development in discrimination. So while yes you would hope someone with LeBron’s reach would know better,  I’d wager a wide swath of the population has the same blind spot. 
 

What he said about Morey needing to apologize is pretty bad but again he’s far from the only person who will gladly look the other way so as to not displease the CCP. But in the context of racial justice in America today, his views on China are pretty irrelevant. The situation  he can more directly influence is here. Where does the expectation that athletes need to be perfect come from anyway? They weren’t elected, they’re just really good at a sport. I’m not much bothered pointing out hypocrisy of athletes when elected officials And public servants display a far greater level of hypocrisy in ways that is directly related to their actual jobs

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On 9/1/2020 at 12:00 PM, IceCap said:

As I said above it's ignorant...but it comes from this weird, and awkward place that exists between the black and Jewish communities. I'm not sure what else is needed beyond people just talking to each other and understanding where the other is coming from.

 

 

aging matt damon GIF

 
Even as a black guy myself, I don’t understand why many in the black community have such a disconnect with our Jewish brethren. I do know that many black people, including prominent athletes like Allen Iverson and DeSean Jackson, look to Louis Farrakhan as a leader of sorts. Farrakhan, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, has a thorough history of expressing antisemitic views. 
 

I find it especially frustrating, because while many black people share common struggles, we aren’t some singular hive mind to be represented by the opinions of a select few. We’re complex. We’re the products of our own upbringings and life experiences, like any other people of any other ethnicity, and he does NOT represent us all, especially me. 

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