MLB 2021

[Kramerica Industries]

12 hours ago, Digby said:

It is not uncommon for people to keep their sports allegiances to where they grew up, or to what their families passed to them. That should not be breaking news in Snowbird Country of all places.

 

I concur. This describes me as well. Neither of my parents really ever had a favorite hockey team. My mother's favorite NFL team growing up was the Dolphins, my father...I guess would've been a Browns fan since that's where he lived when he first came to the US? But these weren't strong allegiances and they weren't imparted on me or any of my brothers. But my father was definitely a Yankee fan and he imparted that on me. I'll also just be honest enough to admit that, in the last couple years, I find myself losing that connection just a little bit. Even disregarding 2020 - a season I never considered legitimate but also which overlapped with the 2020 Stanley Cup playoffs almost entirely - I probably missed more Yankee games in 2021 than I missed from, like, 2014-'19 combined. I don't know if it's some kind of guilt complex or something (it would be pointless anyway; the opportunity to become a Rays fan has come and gone and there's no way I could do it now just on principle alone), but there's definitely a reason why I never talk about them on this website anymore and only make maybe the occasional tweet about them. If I could do things over again, odds are I would've chosen a different route.

 

That being said, part of it could just be that I'm not as much of a baseball fan as I used to be. Or maybe I'm not as much of a baseball fan because I'm not as much of a Yankee fan anymore. Who knows and, more importantly, who cares?

[JTernup]

On 10/4/2021 at 8:09 PM, BBTV said:

 

The first part is true.  Any other potential market is just as much of a risk.  They could F it up just like Tampa did.  

 

But the second part is absolutely not true.  It's not clear at all that moving the team would be a mistake.  We all seem to agree that baseball in Tampa cannot succeed - or even be given a fair shot - without the stadium issue being rectified.  So far there's no reason to think that will ever happen.  Therefore, any other market that can at least generate at least the same local revenue wouldn't be worse than Tampa.  While I don't know what their TV deal is, given the stadium situation, I can't imagine that they make a ton of money.  I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

Yeah, that was poorly written. That second part was my opinion that it would be a mistake to move, didn’t mean for it to be lumped in as something we can all agree on.

 

13 hours ago, dont care said:

I have this mentality because because Tampa as a whole isn’t supporting the team. Fans of the team are few and far between when compared to other fan bases anywhere but maybe Miami. That’s it. I’ll ignore your personal attacks because I guess saying the rays should move touched a nerve for you.

Tampa hasn’t supported the Bucs or the Lightning at times either. It’s clearly a finicky market but the city has proven it supports winners based in the heart of Tampa. As recently as 2008-2011 the Lightning were consistently in the 20’s for average attendance percentage in the NHL. The Buccaneers were 27th, 29th and 31st in attendance percentage the three years preceding last year. Tampa being finicky isn’t even unique, warm weather fun cities with lots of transplants always have attendance related problems (Miami, San Diego, LA).
 

In both of those cases the problem was that the franchises weren’t consistently winning. For the Rays the problem is they play in a dump that’s far from Tampa. Fix your problem, win games and fans in Tampa show up. The Rays win games but that’s not why people don’t go to games. Once the stadium is sorted AND they continue to win, history would tell us that things have a good chance to turn around.

 

 

[monkeypower]

14 hours ago, Digby said:

It is not uncommon for people to keep their sports allegiances to where they grew up, or to what their families passed to them. That should not be breaking news in Snowbird Country of all places. (I've said this before specifically about MLS, which has an advantage in traditionally "bad" sports markets as being a blank slate local team for transplants who might carry baggage for Big Four teams.)

 

Or you get me, the Ducks, Angels, Jets, Jazz and Texas Tech fan from Calgary.

 

Did I grow up anywhere near those teams? No. Did my family pass any of them on to me? No. (I guess technically by definition, though not the definition we're going for here with family passing on, the Jets).

 

I know there are people out there, and I think also on the boards, that think I spit in the face of what it is to be a "good" sports fan, but I frankly don't care... and I am a fan of the Stampeders, Hitmen and Roughnecks, to the extent that I follow lacrosse, so that should defend me some.

[dont care]

8 hours ago, JTernup said:

Yeah, that was poorly written. That second part was my opinion that it would be a mistake to move, didn’t mean for it to be lumped in as something we can all agree on.

 

Tampa hasn’t supported the Bucs or the Lightning at times either. It’s clearly a finicky market but the city has proven it supports winners based in the heart of Tampa. As recently as 2008-2011 the Lightning were consistently in the 20’s for average attendance percentage in the NHL. The Buccaneers were 27th, 29th and 31st in attendance percentage the three years preceding last year. Tampa being finicky isn’t even unique, warm weather fun cities with lots of transplants always have attendance related problems (Miami, San Diego, LA).
 

In both of those cases the problem was that the franchises weren’t consistently winning. For the Rays the problem is they play in a dump that’s far from Tampa. Fix your problem, win games and fans in Tampa show up. The Rays win games but that’s not why people don’t go to games. Once the stadium is sorted AND they continue to win, history would tell us that things have a good chance to turn around.

 

 

If anything this further shows that Tampa doesn’t support the team. They have been one of the best teams in baseball and numbers still don’t get above average. 

[Ridleylash]

32 minutes ago, dont care said:

If anything this further shows that Tampa doesn’t support the team. They have been one of the best teams in baseball and numbers still don’t get above average. 

The building location plays a role in this, though; if a location is awful to get to for the core fanbase, attendance usually tends to suffer as a result; and the Trop being practically Stade Olympique 2.0 in terms of being a fossil of a building doesn't help. The entire Glendale saga in Arizona is proof enough of how important it is for any team to be easily-accessible to their core fanbase.

 

It's why you sometimes see teams with low in-building attendance have high television viewership; the market's interested in the team, but at the same time seeing them in person is a hassle.

[dont care]

57 minutes ago, Ridleylash said:

The building location plays a role in this, though; if a location is awful to get to for the core fanbase, attendance usually tends to suffer as a result; and the Trop being practically Stade Olympique 2.0 in terms of being a fossil of a building doesn't help. The entire Glendale saga in Arizona is proof enough of how important it is for any team to be easily-accessible to their core fanbase.

 

It's why you sometimes see teams with low in-building attendance have high television viewership; the market's interested in the team, but at the same time seeing them in person is a hassle.

Tv viewership hasn’t gotten above average literally. 17th of 30 isn’t “good”, especially when they play so many games against 2 of the largest drawing teams in the league.

[gosioux76]

10 hours ago, monkeypower said:

I know there are people out there, and I think also on the boards, that think I spit in the face of what it is to be a "good" sports fan, but I frankly don't care... and I am a fan of the Stampeders, Hitmen and Roughnecks, to the extent that I follow lacrosse, so that should defend me some.

 

I've learned as I've gotten older that it's a waste of energy and precious time to adhere to some phantom populace's notion of what fandom should be. You owe nothing to these teams, so give them the time and energy you can afford, pick and choose the teams you follow by your own standards,  and let nobody judge you but yourself.

 

I'm the world's biggest Twins fan when they're winning. When they're disappointing, I change the channel. Lots of good stuff on TV that doesn't make me feel miserable. I'm not less of a fan for approaching it on my own terms. 

 

Thanks for coming to my TED talk. 

[GhostOfNormMacdonald]

17 minutes ago, gosioux76 said:

I'm the world's biggest Twins fan when they're winning. When they're disappointing, I change the channel. Lots of good stuff on TV that doesn't make me feel miserable. I'm not less of a fan for approaching it on my own terms. 

I'm a Minnesota sports die-hard. Unfortunately I live out of state for college so it's not worth my time or money to figure out how to watch the Twins in a normal game when they suck. If they're on FOX or ESPN? You're darn right I'll watch them no matter the record. And if they're having a good year, I'll maybe try to find a way to have them playing in the background in my laptop while I study, or go over to my parents or uncles place on the weekend and have a beer or two with the Twins on in the background while we're shooting the :censored:.

 

Ultimately though, I'm 1 or 2 timezones away (yay for no daylight savings time in AZ) in an NL market. I don't have many options, but I still consume way more Twins content than D-Backs content (I might head to chase more often when the pandemic dies down, I've only been once). So I can't blame anyone that chooses to stay completely loyal to family or hometown allegiance over the place they happen to live. Idk if Tampa is as transient as Phoenix, but the Sun Belt having so many transplants could explain the woes, especially with the Stadium. Chase field is super convenient to get to and I know so many people who wouldn't even think of going to it if it wasn't easily accessible.

 

IDK if the D-Backs are the best comparison, and call me a dummy if it isn't, but that's what I've noticed with a tansient city with a way worse team. When Los Doyers are in town, it's apparently 60% blue in there.

[gosioux76]

29 minutes ago, GhostOfNormMacdonald said:

Ultimately though, I'm 1 or 2 timezones away (yay for no daylight savings time in AZ) in an NL market. I don't have many options, but I still consume way more Twins content than D-Backs content (I might head to chase more often when the pandemic dies down, I've only been once). So I can't blame anyone that chooses to stay completely loyal to family or hometown allegiance over the place they happen to live. Idk if Tampa is as transient as Phoenix, but the Sun Belt having so many transplants could explain the woes, especially with the Stadium. Chase field is super convenient to get to and I know so many people who wouldn't even think of going to it if it wasn't easily accessible.

 

I relate to this. I grew up in Minnesota, but I haven't lived there for more than 20 years. I think that, had I stayed in Minnesota, I wouldn't be nearly as drawn to the local teams as I am now.  When you live in a market with other teams, that attachment to Minnesota becomes part of my identity and helps me retain some of those Minnesota ties I may have lost by moving away.  

 

It's also a great way of more easily identifying shared connections. Living in Portland and St. Louis as I have the past dozen or so years, my Twins/Vikings/U of North Dakota gear is like a signal flare for the few people in those areas who may share my allegiances. 

[TheBigFiz21]

14 hours ago, Digby said:

This is miles ahead of the Boston uniform.

 

they’re wearing red tonight anyway. Thankfully, I suppose!

Would hàve preferred they stick to the classic home whites to complete the timeless look of a typical Yanks/Sox game at Fenway, but I'll allow it.

[Digby]

2 hours ago, TheBigFiz21 said:

Would hàve preferred they stick to the classic home whites to complete the timeless look of a typical Yanks/Sox game at Fenway, but I'll allow it.

 

Same. I don't mind the reds. Maybe because the overuse of the yellow this year, and the sudden major use of navy in their last World Series win, has broken me down. Red is what I like most of their alt options, even though it was better when it had the navy headspoon piping in the mid-00s and also when they stuck to the "alternates on Fridays and doubleheaders" setup. The slow erosion of the brand is working on me!

[BBTV]

3 hours ago, gosioux76 said:

I've learned as I've gotten older that it's a waste of energy and precious time to adhere to some phantom populace's notion of what fandom should be. You owe nothing to these teams, so give them the time and energy you can afford, pick and choose the teams you follow by your own standards,  and let nobody judge you but yourself.

 

I'm the world's biggest Twins fan when they're winning. When they're disappointing, I change the channel. Lots of good stuff on TV that doesn't make me feel miserable. I'm not less of a fan for approaching it on my own terms. 

 

Thanks for coming to my TED talk. 

 

I've posted this exact same thing before.  The notion that you have to pay your dues as a fan and waste thousands of hours suffering through lousy seasons in order to be "allowed" to celebrate and enjoy the successes is immature and stupid.

 

Sports are expensive - both literally from a cash standpoint, and from a time / emotion standpoint.  I can't give up on the Eagles, but when the Phillies are bad, they exist to me as not-much-more than just a place to meet up with my friends and shoot the sheet with while having a beer during a meaningless game.  And then nothing else, because they don't deserve it.  I resent them for tricking me in to wasting hundreds of hours and probably over a thousand dollars this year.  Losers.

 

[gosioux76]

6 minutes ago, BBTV said:

 

I've posted this exact same thing before.  The notion that you have to pay your dues as a fan and waste thousands of hours suffering through lousy seasons in order to be "allowed" to celebrate and enjoy the successes is immature and stupid.

 

Sports are expensive - both literally from a cash standpoint, and from a time / emotion standpoint.  I can't give up on the Eagles, but when the Phillies are bad, they exist to me as not-much-more than just a place to meet up with my friends and shoot the sheet with while having a beer during a meaningless game.  And then nothing else, because they don't deserve it.  I resent them for tricking me in to wasting hundreds of hours and probably over a thousand dollars this year.  Losers.

 

I came to this point in life after watching the Vikings lose an NFC title game for the fifth time in my lifetime. After that loss to your beloved Eagles a few years back,  I told myself I will keep the Vikings at arm's length, and allow myself to jump on the bandwagon at my own will. 

 

Seriously, it did wonders for my mental health. 

[Sec19Row53]

14 hours ago, Ridleylash said:

The building location plays a role in this, though; if a location is awful to get to for the core fanbase, attendance usually tends to suffer as a result; and the Trop being practically Stade Olympique 2.0 in terms of being a fossil of a building doesn't help. The entire Glendale saga in Arizona is proof enough of how important it is for any team to be easily-accessible to their core fanbase.

 

It's why you sometimes see teams with low in-building attendance have high television viewership; the market's interested in the team, but at the same time seeing them in person is a hassle.

Building location or quality wasn't a role in attendance in Year 1. Fans were apparently CRAZY for their new team and supported them regardless.  They drew 2.5 million, then fell off by nearly a million the next year.

 

It can be done if the fans choose to come. They haven't. 

[cajunaggie08]

New FOX scorebug this postseason. I dont like it. Not one bit. It feels clunky

 

 

[AstroCree]

Did they stop doing those POSTSEASON patches? 

[DarthBrett]

On 10/6/2021 at 4:57 AM, Ridleylash said:

The building location plays a role in this, though; if a location is awful to get to for the core fanbase, attendance usually tends to suffer as a result; and the Trop being practically Stade Olympique 2.0 in terms of being a fossil of a building doesn't help. The entire Glendale saga in Arizona is proof enough of how important it is for any team to be easily-accessible to their core fanbase.

 

It's why you sometimes see teams with low in-building attendance have high television viewership; the market's interested in the team, but at the same time seeing them in person is a hassle.

There are some exceptions to this rule. A perfect example is Dodger Stadium. It is one of the least accessible and probably one of the most inconvenient ballparks in MLB and a huge headache to get to and enter from any direction surrounding it. And yet it is  always #1 or #2 in attendance annually. It can take 60-90 min to get in or leave the park there and if traffic is bad on the freeways another 60-120 min to get home depending where and how far away you live. 

[monkeypower]

1 hour ago, insert name said:

Did they stop doing those POSTSEASON patches? 

 

Article on the mothership says a source told Chris there's only going to be World Series patches this year.

 

Blamed it on “major global supply chain issues” and the resulting production and distribution delays, so they weren't going to bother getting Postseason patches if the teams (and retail stores) weren't going to be able to get the patches fast enough to make it worthwhile to deal with.

[Digby]

 

Today they actually did run the Boston Marathon, six months late due to Covid. Between that and the resurgence of that uni in September and the supposed special dispensation to wear them in the postseason, seems surprising, wonder why the team enthusiasm for them from 3 weeks ago suddenly evaporated. Not that I mind!

[Gothamite]

 

On 10/4/2021 at 6:22 PM, JTernup said:

I think it’s pretty clear that any other potential market is just as much or more of a risk than Tampa and moving the team would be a big mistake.

 

That’s not even remotely clear. 
 

I’ve been skeptical about the potential replacements, but while they might fail Tampa Bay has already failed.  There’s a huge difference there.