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12 hours ago, BBTV said:

 

I think as average Americans, we tend to look to sports teams to judge a city's importance.  I mean no disrespect at all to Cincinnati, but (depending on where you grew up), if they didn't already have the Reds and Bengals, would the average American have any reason to have ever heard of it?  Even post-steel-era Pittsburgh - there's obviously some historical significance there, but would a kid growing up in California have ever heard of it?  Would either be looked at as prime expansion cities if they didn't already have teams?  Jacksonville is another one - I'm fairly certain I would never in my life hear of Jacksonville if they didn't get the Jaguars.  Even Oklahoma City - if not for the bombing, there's no reason for anyone on the east coast to have ever had OKC mentioned in a class growing up or to know anything about it.  Sacramento is usually known because it's a capital city and lots of kids learn those, but as far as where it is actually located, I'd probably not have known that if not for the Kings.)

 

My point is not to disrespect any of those places (eh, maybe Jacksonville), but just to emphasize the importance that having pro sports has to a lot of the smaller cities, and why places like Cincinnati need to bend over backwards just to keep them.   It keeps them relevant to average Joe, which is a shame, because almost all of those places have other great things about them that just don't get the same exposure as their lousy sports teams do.

 

For many places in the country, it's the only reason a lot of us recognize where these places are (which is a good thing in a way, since collecting baseball cards as a little kid helped me learn geography, as I used to plot cards from each teams on the floor relative to where they appear on a map.)  Hell - watching hockey helped me learn Canadian geography, and when I took "Geography of the US and Canada", I felt like I had a bit of a leg up.

 

You make some good points here. And to contribute my 2/100s of a buck, just given how low a profile Cincinnati has on a national stage, it not for the Reds and Bengals I doubt most in the country would have a reason to know or care about it--which is really crazy because even with the Reds and Bengals, and now FCC, Cincinnati still gets so criminally overlooked and underrated its almost comical. (I still consider it one of the nation's best-kept secrets. If not THE best-kept secret.)  As for Jacksonville, I'll tell you what I tell everyone else about it: it's basically the most spread out bedroom community in the country, and aside from Orange Park, San Marco, some parts of Baymeadows and the immediate downtown core, may as well be a giant trailer park by the beach (much like the rest of the state). Now it does have a pretty strong business/logistics economy going for it, so there's that. But yeah...it's trying to come up a little bit from what I saw last time I was there.

 

9 hours ago, FiddySicks said:

Can’t forget that Nevada’s capital is the metropolitan oasis of… Carson City. 

 

Always trips me out, too, especially considering how close it is to Reno--but then, how many people not from the mountain west can name even one other city in Nevada aside from Vegas?? Speaking of obscure capitals, out west is full of them. So too is that of this state I'm sitting in. Quick-- what's the capital of South Dakota?? Then again most can't even pronounce let alone identify it (its actually pronounced "pier" rather than the French pronunciation you'd assume upon looking at the name.) Speaking of which...

 

7 hours ago, _DietDrPepper_ said:

Growing up in central KY, I have always seen Cincinnati as the “big city.” It was our New York. That and Lexington. Louisville was the third option in most cases. So even without the Reds or the Bengals, most people from KY would still know Cincy. Even the Kentucky side of Cincinnati has a lot of things to do, Newport especially.

 

KY is the one that throws everyone...it's a place roughly about an hour north/northwest of Lex called Frankfort.

 

4 hours ago, Magic Dynasty said:

Tallahassee made sense when all of Florida's population was within 50 miles of the Georgia/Alabama border, but it really doesn't anymore. Everyone either lives south of I-4 or right on it (excluding Jacksonville), but the capital is way up in South Alabama and has nothing but the government and FSU in it.

 

That's Lower Alabama, homeboy...get it right. 😁  (And don't forget about FAM, fam.)

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5 hours ago, BBTV said:

 

He didn't "stay loyal" - he made a smart business decision.  He's told numerous people that he wants to at some point play for the Phillies, but he obviously couldn't turn down the contract they put in front of him (and it's not a coincidence that in addition to wanting to play in Philadelphia, his buddy Bryce just happened to sign there shortly before that contract came to be.)

Depends on how you look at it I guess, but in the end it is still being loyal and also was a good business decision. I am pretty sure he said he wanted to stay with the Angels because they drafted him and supported him so much coming up through the minors and showed commitment with him and others. 

 

Had he wanted to, he would have turned the deal down and tested the FA market and then that would have been purely a business decision. The fact that he signed as soon as the Angels made an offer 2 years before he was even a FA makes it a decision very rooted in loyalty.

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6 hours ago, DarthBrett said:

Had he wanted to, he would have turned the deal down and tested the FA market and then that would have been purely a business decision. 

 

Nobody on this earth turns that deal down and then risks getting injured or just "losing it" in the next two seasons.  I wouldn't even call it a "decision".  He'd have been committed to an asylum had he not signed that deal.

 

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On 7/7/2021 at 9:34 PM, Sec19Row53 said:

Green Bay is absolutely an outlier and only works because it's been around so damn long. Seriously, you aren't going there unless you know someone or it is Packer related.

 

To that point, Anaheim, Sacramento and Columbus all have reasons to be known. Had they been where an NFL team were created in 1919, we wouldn't have these discussions about them.

The NFL became the NFL in Columbus, OH. The name was changed from the AFPA to NFL while the league was still headquartered in downtown Columbus. 

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On 7/8/2021 at 11:17 AM, Digby said:


how many state capitals aren’t their state’s biggest or most important city? Gotta be more than half. Probably something worth unpacking there. For every Boston or Atlanta or Denver there’s also a Sacramento or a Salem. Always blows my mind that Albany has so much sway in New York City.

Tallahassee is completely irrelevant to 90% of the state of Florida. I grew up in south central Florida and only went to Tallahassee once for anything other than just driving through on my way out west. It's a 6 hour drive from where I grew up...

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On 7/8/2021 at 11:13 AM, Michael Bolton said:

 

I guess it's not something I've ever really actively thought about. My first reaction would probably be LA, or maybe San Diego. Never would've even considered Sacramento.

 

Florida's capital is similar - Tallahassee (more famous because of FSU, though).....it's the capital because it was equidistant between Pensacola and St Augustine back in the early 1800s when there wasn't much of anything further south.

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18 hours ago, NormMacdonald said:

Not baseball related, but I would have no idea about Jacksonville if not for the Jaguars. The only time outside of Football that city gets mentioned is when people like to mention how Miami isn't the biggest city in Florida during bar trivia.

that's what happens when Jacksonville has 747sq mi of land and Miami only has 36sq mi lol 

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1 hour ago, SpenserRM said:

Tallahassee is completely irrelevant to 90% of the state of Florida. I grew up in south central Florida and only went to Tallahassee once for anything other than just driving through on my way out west. It's a 6 hour drive from where I grew up...

Same with me being in LA and heading to Sacramento. My first REAL trip to the city was in 2016, and that was because I was visiting a friend that had just moved there from…ANAHEIM.

 

On the flip side, I’d actually visit more often if I had the chance.

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7 hours ago, Ben in LA said:

Same with me being in LA and heading to Sacramento. My first REAL trip to the city was in 2016, and that was because I was visiting a friend that had just moved there from…ANAHEIM.

 

On the flip side, I’d actually visit more often if I had the chance.

You could not pay me to go to Tallahassee. 

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On 7/8/2021 at 8:17 AM, Digby said:


how many state capitals aren’t their state’s biggest or most important city? Gotta be more than half. Probably something worth unpacking there. For every Boston or Atlanta or Denver there’s also a Sacramento or a Salem. Always blows my mind that Albany has so much sway in New York City.

My understanding is this is largely deliberate. Much like the Senate gives a lot of power to thinly-populated states relative to the House, the idea is that capital cities are often away from the big population centers as a way to keep power not entirely with the population, to ensure the more rural parts of the state are represented. How well this actually works, I dunno. Periodically, some states talk about moving the capital. Alaska, for example, has been discussing moving the capital to either Anchorage, or somewhere near by, since at least the 70s. But it's more a talking point than anything that will seriously happen.

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2 hours ago, Quillz said:

My understanding is this is largely deliberate. Much like the Senate gives a lot of power to thinly-populated states relative to the House, the idea is that capital cities are often away from the big population centers as a way to keep power not entirely with the population, to ensure the more rural parts of the state are represented. How well this actually works, I dunno. Periodically, some states talk about moving the capital. Alaska, for example, has been discussing moving the capital to either Anchorage, or somewhere near by, since at least the 70s. But it's more a talking point than anything that will seriously happen.

 

Representation doesn't have anything to do with where the capital is located since (I'm assuming) each state has its own reps and senate.  PA's capital could be in Philadelphia (not that there's any place to put it) and the racist inbred hillbilly redneck church goers west of Chester county and north of Bucks would still do everything they can to defund mass transit and undo all of Phila's proposed gun rules.  Actually... maybe if the capital was here... they'd see first hand how important those issues are.  It baffles me that the majority of the state is funded by Phila, which gets a disproportionally-lower amount back. 

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4 hours ago, BBTV said:

 It baffles me that the majority of the state is funded by Phila, which gets a disproportionally-lower amount back. 

 

Except that's not true. 

 

Quote

Speaking of which, there is Philadelphia.

The city is one of the biggest winner (or is it Taker?) in the divvy. For every dollar Philadelphians pay to the state in taxes, the city gets back $2.57 from the state.

(For the record, Philadelphians pay $1.4 billion in state taxes and get $3.7 billion in state aid.).

 

https://www.penncapital-star.com/commentary/who-are-the-biggest-makers-and-takers-of-pa-tax-dollars-analysis/

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On 7/8/2021 at 10:17 AM, Digby said:

how many state capitals aren’t their state’s biggest or most important city? Gotta be more than half. Probably something worth unpacking there. For every Boston or Atlanta or Denver there’s also a Sacramento or a Salem. Always blows my mind that Albany has so much sway in New York City.

 

I think that has a lot to do with the MTA being a state agency instead of a city one. Put the Subway and LIRR under the city government and Albany starts to matter much less. 

 

I've always felt like Milwaukee and Madison are more of a 1A/1B situation, whereas Springfield is just a sad ghost town in the middle of nowhere. But much of the Illinois state government is, for now, housed in this monstrosity in the Loop. 

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3 hours ago, baseballfan2021 said:

This is an MLB 2021 changes thread, not ECON 101.... leave that s*** out of here. 

Ok buddy, there is nothing else to talk about right now. Discussions will have tangents until something worth being posted gets posted

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4 minutes ago, dont care said:

Ok buddy, there is nothing else to talk about right now. Discussions will have tangents until something worth being posted gets posted

I'm a mod telling you and everyone else to keep politics out of this thread. 

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On 7/8/2021 at 8:46 AM, BBTV said:

I think as average Americans, we tend to look to sports teams to judge a city's importance.  I mean no disrespect at all to Cincinnati, but (depending on where you grew up), if they didn't already have the Reds and Bengals, would the average American have any reason to have ever heard of it?  Even post-steel-era Pittsburgh - there's obviously some historical significance there, but would a kid growing up in California have ever heard of it?  Would either be looked at as prime expansion cities if they didn't already have teams?  Jacksonville is another one - I'm fairly certain I would never in my life hear of Jacksonville if they didn't get the Jaguars.  Even Oklahoma City - if not for the bombing, there's no reason for anyone on the east coast to have ever had OKC mentioned in a class growing up or to know anything about it.  Sacramento is usually known because it's a capital city and lots of kids learn those, but as far as where it is actually located, I'd probably not have known that if not for the Kings.)

 

On 7/8/2021 at 2:08 PM, BBTV said:

Fair enough.  Replace Cincinnati with Cleveland then (or was there some Cleveland show that I don't know about?)

 

Without sports I would think certain cities are...

 

-A place in Florida where my uncle retired to so he could fish year 'round.

 

-Where Prince is from.

 

- Where Frasier/WKRP/Anchorman took place.

 

-The Camden, NJ of San Francisco.

 

-The crappy punchline town with pollution and dead industry where they used to make steel/cars/what did they used to make in Cleveland?

 

And that's about it.

 

On 7/8/2021 at 11:39 AM, WSU151 said:

One of my favorite trivia pieces is Carson City, Nevada is west of Los Angeles. 

 

I got a lot of people who argued with me because until I went to Detroit for a wedding the farthest West I'd ever been was Jacksonville.   People don't realize since the coast swoops in that it's farther West than Niagara and Raleigh despite being almost on the ocean.

 

On 7/8/2021 at 4:11 PM, SFGiants58 said:

If anything, the Dodgers should’ve adopted the Angels name upon moving to LA. Likewise, the Giants would become the Seals. 😜

 

And then the NL would have expanded with the New York Giant Dodgers.

 

On 7/9/2021 at 12:13 PM, SpenserRM said:

that's what happens when Jacksonville has 747sq mi of land and Miami only has 36sq mi lol 

 

It's easily attributed to the fact that Miami has a similar relationship to the surrounding area that Los Angeles and Anaheim have been described to have in terms of different demographics.   If you included the surrounding communities there could be up to double Jacksonville's population.

 

9 hours ago, the admiral said:

I think that has a lot to do with the MTA being a state agency instead of a city one. Put the Subway and LIRR under the city government and Albany starts to matter much less. 

 

But would you put the LIRR and the Metro North and all their stations as they leave the City and spider web out into other communities on the bill of the City?

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