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MLB Offseason 2021: Hot Stoves, Bat Flips, & Bubbleball

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2 hours ago, BBTV said:

Speaking of complete loons, the Phillies traded for this POS.  He's one guy I won't cheer for unless it's the final out of the World Series.

 

 

Not all that comparable tbh (didn't Jonathan Isaac do the same?)

 

Now, his name surely is offensive lmao

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1 hour ago, ManillaToad said:

 

You really think something this innocuous makes him a POS? Lol

 

Yes I do.  Anyone that can't do s simple action like taking a knee because of their god is completely insane and I don't trust them to be able to make rational decisions.  I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on BLM, but I'm not sure that they're Marxist or against the nuclear family (I'm open to being corrected here).  The dude, and anyone like him, are not people I need in my life or on my TV screen.  He wouldn't last a day in the real world if he wasn't a pro athlete.

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4 hours ago, BBTV said:

 

Yes I do.  Anyone that can't do s simple action like taking a knee because of their god is completely insane and I don't trust them to be able to make rational decisions.  I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on BLM, but I'm not sure that they're Marxist or against the nuclear family (I'm open to being corrected here).  The dude, and anyone like him, are not people I need in my life or on my TV screen. 

You despise this random guy and think he's legitimately mentally ill because he didn't bow in support of the popular corporate brand you like, the ideals of which you admittedly aren't even knowledgeable of

Quote

He wouldn't last a day in the real world if he wasn't a pro athlete.

Lol

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Referring to taking the knee as "bowing in support of [a] popular corporate brand" is quite some take.

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13 hours ago, BBTV said:

 

Yes I do.  Anyone that can't do s simple action like taking a knee because of their god is completely insane and I don't trust them to be able to make rational decisions.  I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on BLM, but I'm not sure that they're Marxist or against the nuclear family (I'm open to being corrected here).  The dude, and anyone like him, are not people I need in my life or on my TV screen.  He wouldn't last a day in the real world if he wasn't a pro athlete.

NBA: Why Jonathan Isaac's protest is a learning moment

As for the underlined portion of your post, I'm not gonna go into that here because of site policy and it seems this thread has already strayed pretty far into that territory enough as it is, but may I recommend googling these topics, namely the video of Marcellus Wiley's comments that he discussed openly on espn.

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What does the nuclear family have to do with anything? Why does baseball attract guys like this? Shades of that White Sox guy who refused to stop bringing his annoying son to work. Of course there are legs of the BLM movement that overlap with far-left politics and LGBT activism etc etc .... but I don't think Hunter Pence was kneeling because he wants to send straight people to the gulag. You can view things in their context or you can go down Google rabbit holes. Your call!

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Growing up, you learn pretty quickly that baseball players are complete and total chuds of human beings. Most athletes I think tend to grow out of this a bit, but it usually only gets stronger the further along they get. It’s weird, but when you look at baseball in the “America’s pastime” context, you sort of understand why it breeds so many head up your own ass attitudes. The whole theme is emboldening that same attitude that so many of us detest. 
 

 

Also, :censored: the Hall of Fame. Bonds and Clemens probably roided, and Schilling is a huge jerk. Despite that, they should ALL be HOFers. The HOF is nothing more than a jumped up museum, and them excluding guys like Bonds, Clemens, and Schilling is revisionist history at worst. There’s a way they could add those three to the hall while at the same time giving context to their careers, you know, like a responsible organization would. That, of course, would require a bit of creativity and hard work, though. The Hall of Fame is lazy as :censored: though, and would rather just ignore that part of the sport’s history. That’s insultingly irresponsible on their part. If I’m either of those three, and I ever get the Cooperstown nod, I tell them no thanks, I’m not interested in being a part of your silly little organization. 
 

 

This is all going to come to a head next year when David Ortiz, who was just as much of a blatant roids user as Bonds and Clemens, gets in first ballot because he didn’t hurt the little fee fees of the writers as much. 

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10 hours ago, waltere said:

Referring to taking the knee as "bowing in support of [a] popular corporate brand" is quite some take.

 

Coonrod's stated reason for not kneeling was that he disagreed with certain ideals of the BLM organization (not the general movement). The demonstrations last year were in explicit support of the organization (they even got free advertising on the field), so it makes sense that he wouldn't show support to them. He also said in that article "I mean no ill will by it. I don't think I'm better than anybody." So given that he had no racist reasoning behind his actions, nor was he promoting racist beliefs, what reason is there to call him a piece of :censored: and accuse him of being mentally unstable other than the fact that he didn't want to support the brand?

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His main stated reason for not kneeling is that he's a Christian and can't kneel for anyone but god.  Don't get me wrong - if I was as pea-brained as this guy and was a multi-millionaire despite it, I'd probably believe I was blessed by a higher power too.  But if one can't do a simple act like take a knee because of a god?  That one is a loon.  

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2 hours ago, FiddySicks said:

This is all going to come to a head next year when David Ortiz, who was just as much of a blatant roids user as Bonds and Clemens, gets in first ballot because he didn’t hurt the little fee fees of the writers as much. 

 

I think it's not just the writers, Ortiz was also well-liked by his peers while Schilling was famously difficult to get along with even before he became a full-time social media troll. (Anyone who has to loudly proclaim how he got along with everyone...probably didn't do that!) Statistically he's probably a similar case to Schilling: borderline stats (Ortiz has maybe better stats but gets the DH penalty) but postseason heroics that help the narrative.

 

The thing with Ortiz and PEDs is that he didn't get caught up in any perjury scandals like Bonds or Clemens, or admit to everything like A-Rod -- this gives the voters some kind of... I don't know, a sort of plausible deniability. Obviously that's nonsense to anyone who's paid attention, but it probably matters to the voters and to the baseball establishment, who ultimately just treat this as who gets to be inducted into their Country Club. Ortiz probably did something, but no court cases to bring disrepute on the club.

 

I don't think the character clause will be invoked even though Ortiz got shot by, probably, his mistress's husband a couple years ago. (Still unsolved! Mistaken identity!)

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5 hours ago, ManillaToad said:

 

Coonrod's stated reason for not kneeling was that he disagreed with certain ideals of the BLM organization (not the general movement). The demonstrations last year were in explicit support of the organization (they even got free advertising on the field), so it makes sense that he wouldn't show support to them. He also said in that article "I mean no ill will by it. I don't think I'm better than anybody." So given that he had no racist reasoning behind his actions, nor was he promoting racist beliefs, what reason is there to call him a piece of :censored: and accuse him of being mentally unstable other than the fact that he didn't want to support the brand?

 

Some thoughts partly in rebuttal to this, but also on this topic generally (mods I appreciate this discussion may be a little near the line so if there's anything you feel is stepping over it and want to take out that's fine):

 

1. Christianity, especially in the New Testament, as far as I understand it, can basically be boiled down to "Don't act :censored:ty towards other people". Way, way too many people in my view seem to ignore this and hide behind their religion and/or use it as an excuse to be :censored:ty to other people. Whilst I'm not necessarily saying that's what Coonrod is doing, phrases like "protect the nuclear family" very much get my hackles up and act as a red flag on this matter.

 

2. Using terms like "free advertising" and "popular corporate brand" in this case strikes me as completely missing the point, almost to the extent of being wilfully disingenuous. Yes BLM is an organisation, but it's a very different situation to a corporate brand and trying to draw a comparison between it and something like Nike, which it feels to me like you were trying to do, is extremely misguided.

 

3. I will give you the fact that BLM as an organisation are not perfect, and there are issues on which I do not agree with them - which is why in some ways it's a shame (albeit an understandable one) that the organisation has become so inseparably tied in with what is a far larger (and imo extremely important) movement relating to racial justice and equality as a whole. It's a topic that makes a lot of people uncomfortable, but a lot of the people who really need to be learning something and properly taking things on board about the wider message are able to, to some extent, sidestep the problem by refusing to engage entirely because of issues, legitimate or otherwise, they have with specifically the BLM organisation.

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23 hours ago, BBTV said:

 I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on BLM, but I'm not sure that they're Marxist or against the nuclear family (I'm open to being corrected here).

 

There were some Marxist underpinnings to Black Lives Matter at one point, but it's been so assimilated into capital already that that's largely irrelevant. It's practically a lifestyle brand now.

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1 hour ago, waltere said:

Some thoughts partly in rebuttal to this, but also on this topic generally (mods I appreciate this discussion may be a little near the line so if there's anything you feel is stepping over it and want to take out that's fine):

 

You make plenty of good points and everything but I wasn't trying to start a political summit on the intricacies of social justice and religion, I'm simply objecting to calling Coonrod a holier-than-thou piece of :censored: who is too mentally deranged to lead a normal life just because he decided not to kneel one time, despite his reasonable and respectful reasons for doing so. If I had known the original comment was made just because the poster was offended that Coonrod believes in God I wouldn't have replied in the first place

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38 minutes ago, ManillaToad said:

 

You make plenty of good points and everything but I wasn't trying to start a political summit on the intricacies of social justice and religion, I'm simply objecting to calling Coonrod a holier-than-thou piece of :censored: who is too mentally deranged to lead a normal life just because he decided not to kneel one time, despite his reasonable and respectful reasons for doing so. If I had known the original comment was made just because the poster was offended that Coonrod believes in God I wouldn't have replied in the first place

 

It's all good man.

We're dealing with weighty, emotive issues that don't have an easy solution, discussing it and knowing more about all the different angles people are coming at it from is one of the best ways to work towards a resolution.

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Dustin Pedroia has announced his retirement today. He would’ve been a great player if it wasn’t for the injury bug...

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Just now, Gary said:

Dustin Pedroia has announced his retirement today. He would’ve been a great player if it wasn’t for the injury bug...

He was a great player, but injuries definitely derailed what could have been a Hall of Fame career. 

 

It's a shame, but you kind of knew it was inevitable. He tried so hard to come back these past 2 seasons but just couldn't do it. 

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1 hour ago, Gary said:

Dustin Pedroia has announced his retirement today. He would’ve been a great player if it wasn’t for the injury bug...

I literally thought he retired already, but I noticed he played his last game in April 2019.

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Has there ever been a worse trade in the history of the game?

 

To St. Louis:
Nolan Arenado
Fifty million dollars cash
 
To Colorado: 
Austin Gomber
Elehuris Montero (14)
Tony Locey (26)
Mateo Gil (28)
Jake Sommers (unranked)
(STL system prospect rank)
 

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9 hours ago, Cujo said:

Has there ever been a worse trade in the history of the game?

 

To St. Louis:
Nolan Arenado
Fifty million dollars cash
 
To Colorado: 
Austin Gomber
Elehuris Montero (14)
Tony Locey (26)
Mateo Gil (28)
Jake Sommers (unranked)
(STL system prospect rank)
 

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