Cleveland Indians become the Cleveland Guardians

[The_Admiral]

I haven't seen anything, I'm just explaining why they'd sue over Guardians. 

[ManillaToad]

10 minutes ago, the admiral said:

Guardians of the Galaxy, which is Marvel, which is Disney. That's just as ridiculous as them using Spider-Man to get in the way of Spiders. Loathsome company.

 

Right so there's zero reason for them to have had to clear anything with Disney. Do people think the world revolves around the latest superhero movies or something?

[4_tattoos]

2 minutes ago, ManillaToad said:

Do people think the world revolves around the latest superhero movies or something?

You'd be surprised.

[MilSox]

The more I look at this identity package, the more I like it. I even like the G-wings... probably because I'm a sucker for anything art deco.  At first I thought the scripts looked more like a mid-century department store than something truly deco inspired.  But art deco led to streamline modern, which led to mid century modern, so it still kind of works.  It also helps that it looks like a less cheesy version of their 1970s scripts.

It's already growing on me, which is a good sign.

[SFGiants58]

Having spent the past 12 minutes wiping out cobwebs, I'm kind of glad it's not Spiders. 
 

[The_Admiral]

14 minutes ago, ManillaToad said:

Do people think the world revolves around the latest superhero movies or something?

 

[Digby]

I don’t get it. That they settled on Guardians suggests that the specter of Marvel lawyers wasn’t so bad, no?

[Discrim]

Went down the rabbit hole that is Facebook, amusingly enough, a Latina friend of mine was pissed that the Indians weren't changing to...drumroll please...Natives.  Yeah, not touching that one.... I'm very sure if they still wanted a name with Native connotations, they'd have gone with Tribe.  Pretty obvious why they chose not to.

[Marlins93]

8 hours ago, neo_prankster said:

 

Yeah, the legal stuff we often don't take into consideration, so you do have a point on that.

 

I don't think Marvel really owns the word guardian, because I think DC probably used that for a couple of their titles too. I don't remember Marvel batting an eye when Casey Wasserman named his Arena Football team the Avengers.

 

It seems like the Spider name didn't really check the boxes for what the club thought would really represent Cleveland.

Yeah it sounds like they weren't worried about the Spiders having an icky connotation. It was more a legal/money issue and they sought a stronger local connection. The Spiders being a Cleveland-based team from over a century ago didn't cut it.

[MCM0313]

I’m not crazy about the name, or about them keeping the boring old color scheme, but it appears they’ll at least look better in the near future. That’s a win. 

[The_Admiral]

42 minutes ago, Marlins93 said:

Yeah it sounds like they weren't worried about the Spiders having an icky connotation. It was more a legal/money issue and they sought a stronger local connection. The Spiders being a Cleveland-based team from over a century ago didn't cut it.

 

Spiders eat bugs. This could have been a terrific opportunity to get people to try eating some delicious bug-based products. Mmm, you don't even taste the bugs! 

[Old School Fool]

I think worrying about a lawsuit from Marvel is ridiculous however, I do want to point out that Marvel did actually get mad about Hulk Hogan's name because of The Incredible Hulk back in the 80's so pettiness with intellectual property is not completely unheard of with Marvel. I think they know better by now as the Guardians are absolutely not the Guardians of the Galaxy.

[Sec19Row53]

If anyone has fact rather than speculation about Spiders and any intellectual property issues, please point me in that direction. 

 

Yes, I'm being the south end of a northbound horse. Unless this actually exists, we are well on the way to falsely remembering that it exists.

 

EDIT

 

This link even indicates that someone squatted on Guardians last year. I'm not saying this is a squatter issue - I'm looking for actual evidence that there were legal issues regarding Spiders, since that is what a few people have referenced. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/12/sports/baseball/cleveland-spiders-trademark.html

[throwuascenario]

On 7/23/2021 at 5:57 PM, Francis10 said:

Except Indiana residents are Hoosiers, not Indianans. It's the official demonym.

 

Indy last year announced they were studying a name change and did do some community and tribal engagement around it. I expect that they will follow suit in the offseason this year or next. I have to imagine not having competed last year and being a minor league club, rebranding is more costly as a fraction of their annual net profit.  Here's the Indy Star's story on the matter of about an hour ago.

But the Indianapolis Indians are clearly named after the city, not after a group of people. If the name of the city (and state for that matter) itself is an issue, then that goes beyond their paygrade.

[_DietDrPepper_]

2 minutes ago, throwuascenario said:

But the Indianapolis Indians are clearly named after the city, not after a group of people. If the name of the city (and state for that matter) itself is an issue, then that goes beyond their paygrade.

I hope this is satire? It takes five seconds to find the logo which is clearly native american inspired? They’ve always been named after native americans. You don’t call people from the state that either, they’re Hoosiers. Which also takes no time at all to google.

[throwuascenario]

3 minutes ago, _DietDrPepper_ said:

I hope this is satire? It takes five seconds to find the logo which is clearly native american inspired? They’ve always been named after native americans. You don’t call people from the state that either, they’re Hoosiers. Which also takes no time at all to google.

The team's original identity didn't include any references to Native Americans. In this article (https://www.ibj.com/articles/indianapolis-indians-baseball-team-considering-name-change), it states that "The Triple-A franchise has been called the Indians since its founding in 1902, as a derivation from the state’s name." The current logo set is garbage and can be thrown out. The name though was at least originally in reference to the city/state.

[The_Admiral]

Guardianapolis Guardians, I fixed it

[Silent Wind of Doom]

1 hour ago, the admiral said:

Spiders eat bugs. This could have been a terrific opportunity to get people to try eating some delicious bug-based products. Mmm, you don't even taste the bugs! 

 

I mean... given what they sell at Coors Field... it's not too crazy a stretch.

 

1 hour ago, Old School Fool said:

I think worrying about a lawsuit from Marvel is ridiculous however, I do want to point out that Marvel did actually get mad about Hulk Hogan's name because of The Incredible Hulk back in the 80's so pettiness with intellectual property is not completely unheard of with Marvel. I think they know better by now as the Guardians are absolutely not the Guardians of the Galaxy.

 

Huh.   I remember OSW mentioning off-hand a deal being struck with Marvel and always assumed they paid the rights.   I didn't realize there was a conflict which ended up with Marvel holding the rights to the names "Hulk Hogan", "Hulkster" and "Hulkamania" until 2004 while Hogan couldn't call himself incredible, be referred to only as "Hulk". and couldn't wear purple and green.   That's hilarious.

[_DietDrPepper_]

1 hour ago, throwuascenario said:

The team's original identity didn't include any references to Native Americans. In this article (https://www.ibj.com/articles/indianapolis-indians-baseball-team-considering-name-change), it states that "The Triple-A franchise has been called the Indians since its founding in 1902, as a derivation from the state’s name." The current logo set is garbage and can be thrown out. The name though was at least originally in reference to the city/state.

Well I stand corrected in that regard, none of the places I looked mentioned that it apparently wasn’t originally (solely) inspired by Native Americans. Although I highly doubt simplifying Indiana to Indian was completely separate from the word Indian that regards to Native Americans. Especially when several teams named the Indians regarding Native Americans had already lived and died for decades and multiple teams named Hoosiers had already played in the city years before the Indians were founded. 

Going back to your original comment though, I’m still confused. What’s so clear about a team that’s used Native iconography as a mascot for the past 50+ years being apparently named after the city or state? That source you provided (which I apparently need to create an account to see so I’m just taking your word for it) is the only one i saw that mentioned it too.

If the Cleveland Guardians of all teams could realize the name Indians was bad and change it, why should a minor league team be able to keep it? There’s no good way to defend it.

[crashcarson15]

14 hours ago, DustDevil61 said:

I haven’t found anything about any lawsuits with Disney, but I read an article stating that around 1992 that Cleveland considered renaming themselves the Spiders back then. The article does mention that there would be some connection to Marvel/Disney given that some Spider-Man movies were filmed in the area, but  little (if anything) else.

 

Still, it wouldn’t surprise me if The Mouse held some kind of legal threat over Cleveland’s baseball team.

 

 

 

I will say, if there was a time for the franchise to change colors, it would’ve been in ‘94 when they moved into Jacobs Field. For everything that people talk about with the franchise and futility, everything since the move has actually been really strong, if lacking a championship. Three pennants, twice having eight consecutive winning seasons — it’s a run that’s been damn near better than most every small-market team in baseball over that stretch, arguably all of them (given the Cardinals aren’t really a small-market team and the Diamondbacks, Marlins and Royals have generally been straight bad when not contending). There are actually a lot of strong memories for fans with the club now.

 

Back then, though? The only time Cleveland finished within 10 games of the postseason from 1960 to 1993 was when they shortened the season for a strike and split it in two. I mean, they chose the club for Major League for a reason, right? Combine that with the fact that it was the ‘90s, and I think a name change to the Spiders wearing purple and teal or whatever would’ve been a better fit as a concept then.