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Cleveland Indians become the Cleveland Guardians


Bill0813

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2 hours ago, FiddySicks said:


I think that’s by design. It feels like they really didn’t want Spiders (despite the popularity), did a quick Google search to see if there were any potential roadblocks, and just used the very first thing that popped up (U of Richmond, in this case) as their excuse to not look into it any further. I’m disappointed by that, but can’t really blame them. I’ve seen that kind of stuff happen in branding meetings before. Why travel down a road you’re not really interested in going down anyway? It’s just an obvious waste of everyone’s time and even dangling it a tiny little bit was going to annoy people who wanted it even more. 

I’m not gonna dig to find it because phone but the Richmond thing is at least kind of real — there was a story a few months ago about how some guy was actually trying to register Cleveland Spiders and squat on it (sorry, he wanted to honor the team’s history or whatever he had to say), and it said that he was running into issues with U of R.

 

Granted, a major league franchise has enough money to make a mid-major happy, but there was at least a real trademark worry there. Given they were on an expedited timeline, it makes sense they’d drop it unless they loved it.

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2 hours ago, SFGiants58 said:


Ah, thanks. My dad is from a Louisville suburb that’s in Indiana, so out-of-state suburbs are a fun little topic for me.

 

Ah...New Albany, Jeffersonville, Clarksville, Henryville...Memphis, per chance?

 

2 hours ago, NormMacdonald said:

They are fun aren't they? The Twin Cities metro is close enough to the Wisconsin border that 100,000+ Wisconsinites live in its suburbs.

 

Got to love "border towns", don't ya? Same goes for Memphis--which is literally shoved all the way down into the southwest corner of Tennessee, with suburbs both in Arkansas and in Mississippi (West Memphis and Marion in AR; Southhaven, Olive Branch and Horn Lake in MS just to name a few). And of course all this is to say nothing of all the burbs spread all around the two Kansas Citys...

 

 

38 minutes ago, -Akronite- said:

 

Indiana is itself a reference to Native Americans. If the state name derives from Indians it's hard to say the Indiana Indians isn't inherently a reference to... Indians. People are free to feel however they want about the name, just hard to separate the two.

 

^ That part.

 

It'll be interesting to see what, if anything, the Indianapolis Indians do about a possible name change. I like the suggestion of Arrows--or Archers, though I know it has no direct tie (that I know of) to Indy or Indiana, but would be a way to get around any potential controversy that'd arise from some folk possibly claiming that an arrowhead/arrowhead imagery is stilltooclose to Native American imagery for comfort *sideeyes*. 

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40 minutes ago, crashcarson15 said:

I’m not gonna dig to find it because phone but the Richmond thing is at least kind of real — there was a story a few months ago about how some guy was actually trying to register Cleveland Spiders and squat on it (sorry, he wanted to honor the team’s history or whatever he had to say), and it said that he was running into issues with U of R.

 

Granted, a major league franchise has enough money to make a mid-major happy, but there was at least a real trademark worry there. Given they were on an expedited timeline, it makes sense they’d drop it unless they loved it.


Yeah I think this is the key. These organizations absolutely have the resources to handle the trademark issues that would come up, but if they’re not totally sold on it, why bother? Especially considering the expedited timeline (Which still seems a bit crazy to me that that these teams didn’t have at least SOME contingency plan in place in case this were to happen. Like, read the room, guys. But, that’s another story for another time). It still feels rather convenient to me that they had THAT much of a problem with it, but overall it’s acceptable. 

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20 hours ago, 4_tattoos said:

Do people think the world revolves around the latest superhero movies or something?

 

It does.

 

Don't be shocked when WFT drops 'Washington Avengers' on us all.

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14 hours ago, _DietDrPepper_ said:

Well I stand corrected in that regard, none of the places I looked mentioned that it apparently wasn’t originally (solely) inspired by Native Americans. Although I highly doubt simplifying Indiana to Indian was completely separate from the word Indian that regards to Native Americans. Especially when several teams named the Indians regarding Native Americans had already lived and died for decades and multiple teams named Hoosiers had already played in the city years before the Indians were founded. 

Going back to your original comment though, I’m still confused. What’s so clear about a team that’s used Native iconography as a mascot for the past 50+ years being apparently named after the city or state? That source you provided (which I apparently need to create an account to see so I’m just taking your word for it) is the only one i saw that mentioned it too.

If the Cleveland Guardians of all teams could realize the name Indians was bad and change it, why should a minor league team be able to keep it? There’s no good way to defend it.

I guess it just seemed obvious to me because of the way it rolls off the tongue. Almost like Phillies obviously comes from Philadelphia. Maybe not so for everyone though. And I guess my point is that it's more complicated because even if they changed their names they would STILL have the word "Indian" in the name.

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4 hours ago, Sport said:

Probably, but I drive through my mother-in-law’s affluent neighborhood and there’s a lot of pleasantly surprising signage in people’s yards. I think the west side is where you’ll still find most of the old school Cincinnati folks and that might as well be Mars to me. I don’t need or want to go over there. 

 

That matches up with what I remember from that very interesting n+1 profile of Cincinnati:

 

Quote

I commuted every day to a high school in Over-the-Rhine, where 3CDC was just beginning its campaign. We weren’t rich, even by Cincinnati standards, but life on the East Side hills, where almost every neighborhood is clearly black or white, poor or well-off, let me think that at least the white middle class was holding steady.

It was, on the East Side. But on the West it was crumbling, in part because the riots gave us an excuse to ignore the poor white neighborhoods that line the valleys along the Ohio and the Mill Creek. Next to the gelled class structure of the East, the West Side and its suburbs always seemed different. It was rougher—I’ve been beaten up twice on the West Side, never on the East—but freer. Over there the culture was one that made it seem possible to start a plumbing business or a car dealership and get Cincinnati rich, like Marge Schott, the openly racist, dog-loving, bibulous former owner of the Cincinnati Reds. Eastsiders would cringe at the sight of you, as they did at the very thought of Marge, but then Eastsiders never seem to rise out of the city like she did. All of Cincinnati’s national luminaries—Schott, Pete Rose, John Boehner, Charles Manson–are from the West Side.

 

My neck of the woods was considered "moderate Republican" when there was such a thing, which was basically that you looked down upon the Democratic machine that mismanaged Chicago but still wanted really good public schools and park districts. Now it's all just boring in-this-house libs.

 

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3 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:


Washington Superpros.

 

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Oh shyte! I had that card when i was a kid

 

315658.jpg

 

And still, 'DC SuperPros' >>>>> WTF's former nickname

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On 7/23/2021 at 10:53 AM, infrared41 said:

Eh, could have been worse - except for the winged-G logo. That thing is about as bad as it gets.

 

I guess it's an unpopular opinion, but I like the winged-G-ball logo.

 

 

1 hour ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

Absolutely. People live in Vancouver, WA and pay no Washington state income tax, and then often drive and do their shopping in Portland, where there's no state sales tax. Pretty nice grift they got going on there.

 

Lots of Philly/New Jersey is like that too, right?

 

Delaware has no sate sales tax, so when I was a kid, we'd always drive there to get tires and electronics.  Phila city has 8% sales tax (PA state is only 6%) so if given the option for in-store pickup on large purchases (usually if I'm buying a new iphone and ipad or the sort), I'll pick up in DE.  Also liquor is taxed less and significantly cheaper in both DE and NJ.  At this point though, I try to drive as little as possible so I'm generally fine with paying a "convenience" tax to get things that I can walk to, subway to, or have delivered.  It needs to save me at least $80 to get me to drive.

 

Each state has state income tax.  According to a quick search, PA's is actually less than the others, but for some reason I think Delaware ends up being the cheapest place to live, all things considered.  It used to be that NJ was known for exorbitant real estate taxes that DE doesn't necessarily have, but Phila city overhauled it's assessment and taxation system a few years ago (in a very shady and opaque way that nobody understands) so my property tax is as high or higher than any comparable property in NJ.  I also get the privilege of paying a 4% wage tax.  Taxes in the PA burbs vary greatly, but from a real estate and local wage perspective.

 

Delaware is weird.  Part of it is absolutely a Philly suburb.  The actual city of Wilmington is kind of its own thing (though what's called "Wilmington" is a very wide area that includes Philly suburbs).  Once you get around half way through the state, there's like a hard-stop and it becomes the deep south, complete with NASCAR raceways, confederate flags, and roadside BBQ.   There's no transition - it's basically philly suburbs on one side of the street, and then Alabama on the other.

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18 hours ago, the admiral said:

 

Spiders eat bugs. This could have been a terrific opportunity to get people to try eating some delicious bug-based products. Mmm, you don't even taste the bugs! 

In yet another Disney tie-in: “Tastes like chicken!” (in Puumba’s voice of course)

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As time goes on, I like everything more…and hate the G logo more.

 

I am curious about whether the logo is going to go on a sleeve and, if so whether the orientation of it will lead to it appearing on the right sleeve.  It’s partly my OCD, but patches should be on the left sleeve.

 

Also, I seem to be a fairly small minority here, but I really hate the backwards G that I know exists on the other side.

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4 hours ago, crashcarson15 said:

I’m not gonna dig to find it because phone but the Richmond thing is at least kind of real — there was a story a few months ago about how some guy was actually trying to register Cleveland Spiders and squat on it (sorry, he wanted to honor the team’s history or whatever he had to say), and it said that he was running into issues with U of R.

 

Granted, a major league franchise has enough money to make a mid-major happy, but there was at least a real trademark worry there. Given they were on an expedited timeline, it makes sense they’d drop it unless they loved it.

If you go to the link I posted upthread, you can read about the guy who ACTUALLY registered Cleveland Spiders. He limited it to t-shirts and maybe jerseys. He uses the C-Spider logo that has been posted here somewhere.

 

I say this because this is one of those things that isn't a real issue, based on his registration, i.e., nobody stood in his way, either U of Richmond or Disney, in his registration efforts.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/12/sports/baseball/cleveland-spiders-trademark.html

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I went to the game today and the street vendors are on fire. They’ve already got guardians gear on their Hanes tees and pushing wahoo gear cause you “won’t be able to get this anywhere anymore”

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How do you think that will go? The intelligentsia that gets the wheels rolling on this stuff pretty much banks on the bovine nature of the general public to go along with it: there is new stuff, therefore I must buy the new stuff, they say the team is called this now, so I must call it that. What if lots of people stockpile Indians stuff and keep wearing it to the games? What do you do? not let them in?

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6 minutes ago, the admiral said:

What if lots of people stockpile Indians stuff and keep wearing it to the games? What do you do? not let them in?

 

We're going to find out because that is definitely going to happen. Hell, I have 4 Indians jerseys, 6 Indians hats, a classic Indians starter jacket, an Indians hoodie, and a few t-shirts. Am I expected to throw all that away now? I'm not one to wear an Indians jersey to a game as a :censored: you to the new name. but I'm also not going to burn all my old Indians gear.  I like the new name a lot, but I also have literally hundreds of dollars wrapped up in Indians gear. It's a weird spot to be in. I guess I can keep wearing the hats.

 

And before anyone asks, no, I do not have any Wahoo gear. I stopped wearing Wahoo gear a long time ago.

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16 minutes ago, the admiral said:

How do you think that will go? The intelligentsia that gets the wheels rolling on this stuff pretty much banks on the bovine nature of the general public to go along with it: there is new stuff, therefore I must buy the new stuff, they say the team is called this now, so I must call it that. What if lots of people stockpile Indians stuff and keep wearing it to the games? What do you do? not let them in?

 

You can still buy brand new, New Era made, Wahoo hats. Wahoo isn't going away because there is still money to be made off of it. It'll just get pushed to Mitchell & Ness and Cooperstown Collections. 

 

*-This is not a Wahoo endorsement. 

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3 minutes ago, infrared41 said:

I'm not one to wear an Indians jersey to a game as a :censored: you to the new name. but I'm also not going to burn all my old Indians gear.

 

There you go: a trade-in promotion where you'd get free Guardians swag in exchange for handing over your old Indians gear to be burned in effigy, to be promoted as Cleveland Uniform Bonfire II: This Time It's Actually Good. The proposal to gather up all the Indians hats and jerseys and send them away fell apart when someone pointed out that the landfill was in Oklahoma.

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