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Cleveland Indians become the Cleveland Guardians


Bill0813

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Arrowheads are essentially as broad as the term Chief. Realistically the name and logo are about as universal as you can get. A Chief with a society that uses arrowheads is universal for pretty much all Stone Age peoples and many groups after that.

 

That is what makes the Chiefs unique. There is nothing that I think most would describe as inherently racist about the on field brand. The connections to other teams names and logos, KC’s own logo and in stadium tradition history, and the inspiration for the team being based on native Americans are what are problematic.

 

Again, it’s not up to me but it’s certainly a lot different than what we’re seeing with any other team using Native American imagery. Which I think will keep the pressure down and the name in place.

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42 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

The Chiefs of BBQ? That could work with alternate logos. Still, you need something specific as a demonstration of good faith that the Native American connection is gone.

 

This feels like the episode of Master of None when they visit a minority advocacy group that says they've made a pitch to have Washington's NFL team named the Breadsticks. 

 

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26 minutes ago, JTernup said:

Arrowheads are essentially as broad as the term Chief. Realistically the name and logo are about as universal as you can get. A Chief with a society that uses arrowheads is universal for pretty much all Stone Age peoples and many groups after that.

 

That is what makes the Chiefs unique. There is nothing that I think most would describe as inherently racist about the on field brand. The connections to other teams names and logos, KC’s own logo and in stadium tradition history, and the inspiration for the team being based on native Americans are what are problematic.

 

Again, it’s not up to me but it’s certainly a lot different than what we’re seeing with any other team using Native American imagery. Which I think will keep the pressure down and the name in place.

Using the arrowhead in the context they use it in does draw heavily on Native American themes though. And while Native Americans are not the only peoples to use flint arrowheads they do have their own distinct styling. Any archaeologist worth their salt can easily distinguish an arrow head from the Americas from an arrow head from Central Asia from an arrow head from Europe.

 

I am, admittedly, not an archaeologist. It would be interesting to see which sort of arrow head the Chiefs' logo conforms closest to though. My guess would be it's pretty close to styles used by Indigenous Americans.

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The Chiefs seem ready-made to step away from the imagery into "general chief" meaning. They have a long history of not changing their uniforms and not being particularly flashy. A stand-alone KC would work well for a team that dates back to the AFL.  They can essentially be the Packers of the AFC...the interlocking letters on their own are probably better than half of the primaries in the league, anyway.

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I don't even know if it's an authentic Indigenous American arrowhead or just the 1960s popular culture version of what one should look like.

 

TIL that the Kansas City Chiefs were the last major professional sports team to adopt an NA identity.  That sort of surprised me, since the issue didn't really get popularized for a decade after that, but I guess the 60s weren't exactly an expansion boom other than the AHL. 

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1 hour ago, IceCap said:

A KC in a flame? Sounds neat. And unique. I don't think any NFL team is using fire iconography so they would be unique playing up the "Chiefs of BBQ" bit. 

 

49 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

A smoker (flames inside)  with the “KC” would be cool. Maybe a crown-smoker combo (since slow-smoked is the KC style). It’s also the perfect opportunity to remove black and add yellow.

Hear me out,

 

A flame with “KC” where the tail pokes out beyond a crown. Would be a nice way to connect to the city and cross-parking lot companions, the Royals.

 

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Honestly, you could just take the scalloping and base off and have it in a rounded-off pennant shape so that it's not just a KC version of the 49ers logo. They've sold the rights to Arrowhead Stadium, so that connection is gone. 

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Actually, this doesn't have to be difficult at all. Some have suggested just using the KC monogram (or actually, an updated version of it, IMO). It really doesn't even have to be anything fancy, just a straight KC. That's it. KC as a brand (and by that I mean the initials of the metro area) is strong enough that the letters can stand on their own to represent the football team.

 

If that doesn't immediately register, look no further than the NY Giants. Simple monogram. Straight business. All there is. And still instantly recognizable.  I see no reason the Chiefs couldn't go that route...especially seeing as how they have one of the oldest continuous uniform sets in the league. 

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21 hours ago, Gothamite said:

TIL that the Kansas City Chiefs were the last major professional sports team to adopt an NA identity.


The Kansas City Chiefs were the last major professional sports team to adopt a Native American identity that is still utilizing said identity. That said, they were the third-to-last North American "Big Four" major pro team to actually embrace a Native American-themed brand.

Today's Los Angeles Clippers began their existence as the Buffalo Braves in 1970... seven years after Lamar Hunt selected Kansas City Chiefs as the name of his relocating AFL Dallas Texans.
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Four years after the Braves hit the NBA hardwood, and eleven years after the Chiefs' debut, the current New Jersey Devils took to the NHL ice  as the Kansas City Scouts in 1974. The franchise's owners wanted to dub their club the Kansas City Mohawks, but the Chicago Blackhawks claimed that said name infringed upon their identity.    
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Just a half of my blood take on the Chiefs arrowhead. It bothers my Native half about as much as an average admiral post - which is to say not in the slightest. An arrowhead is part of an arrow which is part of a weapon. Like a whole lot of people, Native Americans used arrows with arrowheads as weapons. The Chiefs arrowhead logo is a long, long way from Wahoo. My Native half doesn't have a problem with it. My white half will get back to you.

 

Wado.

 

 

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5 hours ago, IceCap said:

Using the arrowhead in the context they use it in does draw heavily on Native American themes though. And while Native Americans are not the only peoples to use flint arrowheads they do have their own distinct styling. Any archaeologist worth their salt can easily distinguish an arrow head from the Americas from an arrow head from Central Asia from an arrow head from Europe.

 

I am, admittedly, not an archaeologist. It would be interesting to see which sort of arrow head the Chiefs' logo conforms closest to though. My guess would be it's pretty close to styles used by Indigenous Americans.

 

5 hours ago, Gothamite said:

I don't even know if it's an authentic Indigenous American arrowhead or just the 1960s popular culture version of what one should look like.

 

TIL that the Kansas City Chiefs were the last major professional sports team to adopt an NA identity.  That sort of surprised me, since the issue didn't really get popularized for a decade after that, but I guess the 60s weren't exactly an expansion boom other than the AHL. 

Its definitely closer to what admiral is getting at here. The bases for the logo was originally drawn on a napkin at dinner by Lamar Hunt. That part of the story and that symbol have always held so much meaning to me as a fan that I just can’t imagine Clark and company changing their dad’s logo as it must have infinitely more importance to them. Really don’t see that changing unless it’s a must and I don’t see a path to it becoming that based on perception from the general public and Native American groups I’ve heard speak on the manner. We’re certainly a long way from consensus that it has to go.
 

4 hours ago, the admiral said:

Honestly, you could just take the scalloping and base off and have it in a rounded-off pennant shape so that it's not just a KC version of the 49ers logo. They've sold the rights to Arrowhead Stadium, so that connection is gone. 

If they remove the arrowhead I’d rather just stick with the KC without an enclosure but a football-sequence shape would be a nice alternative.

 

The field’s naming rights have been sold but it’s still Arrowhead Stadium. It’ll be interesting to see how that plays out in reality but I think it’s safe to say Arrowhead Stadium hasn’t been lost yet.

 

1 hour ago, infrared41 said:

Just a half of my blood take on the Chiefs arrowhead. It bothers my Native half about as much as an average admiral post - which is to say not in the slightest. An arrowhead is part of an arrow which is part of a weapon. Like a whole lot of people, Native Americans used arrows with arrowheads as weapons. The Chiefs arrowhead logo is a long, long way from Wahoo. My Native half doesn't have a problem with it. My white half will get back to you.

 

Wado.

 

 

Thanks for the perspective, from both halves.

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11 hours ago, IceCap said:

KC in a flame? Sounds neat. And unique. I don't think any NFL team is using fire iconography so they would be unique playing up the "Chiefs of BBQ" bit. 

The Titans use a Greek fireball.

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If the Chiefs aren’t getting rid of the drum they have and local tribes are instructing the team how to properly respect the drum, I really think that the most that would happen is that the meaning of Chiefs gets changed…..in 30 years if that.  
 

The most I see changing right now is the Tomahawk Chop and they’ve already changed it into more of a beating of a drum motion. Maybe it changes into something more authentic if local tribes are getting involved with the drum. 
 

Then again, if they changed the logo of the Chiefs to be more like a Scottish Highland Chief, I would totally be down for painting my face like a recolored Braveheart like some of my Celtic ancestors.

Edited by Red Comet
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Have they ever said who's in their “really good American Indian working group”?  The article doesn’t specify. 
 

It’s a good idea, and I’m glad they’re doing it, but it would be interesting to learn more about who is advising them. 

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I like the new name and its reference.

Aesthetically though...it's a little disappointing.

There are some fantastic artdeco elements in those statues that weren't utilized.

The "C" cap logo is just "meh".

 

And that 3-D, split-finger (what a crock) ball logo,  has gotta be the B-movie of pro sports logos...

It's so bad that it's almost good.

Almost.

 

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Here’s a comparison of what I was talking about earlier between the new “C” and a more straight, angular version:

aeQMGc3.jpg

 

To be honest, the more I look at the two, the more I like what Cleveland actually went with. It has more life and character to it.

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28 minutes ago, MJD7 said:

Here’s a comparison of what I was talking about earlier between the new “C” and a more straight, angular version:

aeQMGc3.jpg

 

To be honest, the more I look at the two, the more I like what Cleveland actually went with. It has more life and character to it.

 

Left is waaaaaaaayyyyyyy better

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