Cleveland Indians become the Cleveland Guardians

[-Akronite-]

Not a big fan of the webbing concepts I've seen for Spiders, always comes off forced or minor league, personally. The simple 2D spider emblems, however, work great. Then you add a nice monogram C to the logo/package. While the Block C is established, I think fans would welcome something with a little more character. I still love this old Cleveland Buckeyes cap:

 

 

I sincerely hope they are making considerations to changing colors. Navy and red is played out in baseball, even with the long history in Cleveland. Black and red is already in state. They should've pounced on brown when they had a chance to own it if they wanted it. I hope they don't feel tied down to the previous aesthetic or the GP's notion of "spider colors." But of course it might be even easier if they just pick a different name (with the obvious caveat that it not suck).

[McCall]

48 minutes ago, -Akronite- said:

Not a big fan of the webbing concepts I've seen for Spiders, always comes off forced or minor league, personally. The simple 2D spider emblems, however, work great. Then you add a nice monogram C to the logo/package. While the Block C is established, I think fans would welcome something with a little more character. I still love this old Cleveland Buckeyes cap:

 

 

I sincerely hope they are making considerations to changing colors. Navy and red is played out in baseball, even with the long history in Cleveland. Black and red is already in state. They should've pounced on brown when they had a chance to own it if they wanted it. I hope they don't feel tied down to the previous aesthetic or the GP's notion of "spider colors." But of course it might be even easier if they just pick a different name (with the obvious caveat that it not suck).

That hat with a spider logo as a sleeve patch would be beautiful. But I disagree, they should keep the colors the same.

[Gothamite]

12 hours ago, O.C.D said:

An Engine is not an Indian. The idea was to have a name that was phonetically similar as a gesture to the fans while being something completely different.

 

I really don't see why that should be seen as a worthy goal.

[BBTV]

Be the Cleveland Endians and use byte blocks on the jerseys. 

[Gothamite]

56 minutes ago, -Akronite- said:

I still love this old Cleveland Buckeyes cap:

 

 

 

 

I've been pushing for an MLB club to adopt a Negro League identity for a very long time.  This would be almost as good.  

 

Easily the best "C" logo in the city's history.

[Cujo]

12 hours ago, O.C.D said:

An Engine is not an Indian. The idea was to have a name that was phonetically similar as a gesture to the fans while being something completely different.

 

For you to not make the connection between Engines and the slur, and then suggest that as Cleveland's new identity, you're either full of it or completely ignorant.

[O.C.D]

3 hours ago, gosioux76 said:

 

I want to make sure I understand this: The name "spiders" is too generic because there are a lot of different kinds of them (most of which nobody could name if they tried.) There are also "hundreds of different tribes" of Indians, yet somehow it's not too generic. 

 

Seems a bit arbitrary. By this logic, you could also make a case for the Chicago Grizzly Bears, the Philadelphia Bald Eagles, or the Oregon Wood Ducks.  

 

Your hypothetical also misses the mark  Ants, on its own, is a terrible name for a lot of reasons, but not because it's too generic. Adding a modifier to it doesn't make it better, it makes it minor league, which is exactly how it's used. 

Spiders: 45,000 species

Bears: 8 Species

Eagles: 60 species

Ducks: 166 Species

North American Indian Tribes (2018): 573

 

My argument is based specifically on the fact that there are tens of thousands of types of spiders. There is no other animal mascot that compares in terms of species diversity. IMO North American Indians is a very specific type of human being. I used Ants because it was one of the only other life forms I could think of that has anywhere near the biodiversity of spiders. Phonetics were an after thought.

 

 

[O.C.D]

1 hour ago, Gothamite said:

 

I really don't see why that should be seen as a worthy goal.

It's worthiness lies in the concept of compromise.

[O.C.D]

1 hour ago, Cujo said:

 

For you to not make the connection between Engines and the slur, and then suggest that as Cleveland's new identity, you're either full of it or completely ignorant.

I did not make the connection to a slur I was not familiar with. Feel free to judge me how you wish.

[Ridleylash]

5 minutes ago, O.C.D said:

It's worthiness lies in the concept of compromise.

Compromising between "we don't want you using us as a mascot" and ":censored: off, cancel culture" isn't really the kind of compromise that keeps the heat off of you. "Tribe" would be at best putting a bandaid over a severe wound and at worst come off as a half-assed attempt to placate people, neither of which goes well.

 

Their best course of option is to completely jettison any ties to Native Americans in terms of team identity and come up with an entirely new brand. 

[officeglenn]

Alright, that's enough with back-and-forth on Engines. It was an idea that maybe not as well-thought-out as it should be. There's no need to pile on any further.

[O.C.D]

3 minutes ago, Ridleylash said:

Compromising between "we don't want you using us as a mascot" and ":censored: off, cancel culture" isn't really the kind of compromise that keeps the heat off of you. "Tribe" would be at best putting a bandaid over a severe wound and at worst come off as a half-assed attempt to placate people, neither of which goes well.

 

Their best course of option is to completely jettison any ties to Native Americans in terms of team identity and come up with an entirely new brand. 

My idea was to mimic the phonetics of the original name while having a completely different mascot. I've been told by multiple people in multiple ways they think it's a terrible idea. My motivation was to try and create a sense of continuity phonetically/syllabically and Engines was what popped in my head. I thought a mechanical mascot was unique.

 

I'm not arguing for the names validity. It was just an idea and it was roundly rejected. Lesson learned.

[AnPheitseog]

For Cleveland, I want a red C logo, outlined in white, on a navy/midnight blue cap with a red button at home. On the road, red c logo outlined in white on a solid navy/midnight blue cap.

 

Jerseys should have the Cleveland on the road and the team name on the road, both with red outlined in blue. I prefer that the accessories be red, but blue also works.

 

The name itself? Meh, whatever.

[gosioux76]

3 minutes ago, O.C.D said:

Spiders: 45,000 species

Bears: 8 Species

Eagles: 60 species

Ducks: 166 Species

North American Indian Tribes (2018): 573

 

My argument is based specifically on the fact that there are tens of thousands of types of spiders. There is no other animal mascot that compares in terms of species diversity. IMO North American Indians is a very specific type of human being. I used Ants because it was one of the only other life forms I could think of that has anywhere near the biodiversity of spiders. Phonetics were an after thought.

 

 

 

Ok, I get that there are a lot of different kinds of spiders. I've had fun looking them up because of this discussion, so thanks for that. But other than one or two, I can't think of any that i just wouldn't simply refer to as a "spider." Just because there are a lot of them, doesn't make that fact any less true. 

 

[Gothamite]

Edit: NM, that part of the conversation is over. 

[infrared41]

1 hour ago, O.C.D said:

IMO North American Indians is a very specific type of human being.

 

"Very specific" how, exactly? Asking for my relatives and ancestors.

[CS85]

1 hour ago, O.C.D said:

IMO North American Indians is a very specific type of human being.

 

[O.C.D]

52 minutes ago, gosioux76 said:

 

Ok, I get that there are a lot of different kinds of spiders. I've had fun looking them up because of this discussion, so thanks for that. But other than one or two, I can't think of any that i just wouldn't simply refer to as a "spider." Just because there are a lot of them, doesn't make that fact any less true. 

 

You're not wrong. The popular species of spiders are few. BUT Cleveland could choose a non famous spider and popularize it themselves ex: Rock Spider lol

[O.C.D]

4 minutes ago, infrared41 said:

 

"Very specific" how, exactly? Asking for my relatives and ancestors.

This isn't a gotcha moment, my statement is based in fact. North American Indians are a very specific and unique subset of human beings within a total population of 7.8 Billion human beings on the planet earth. Their ethnicity and culture occupies a very specific branch in the human family.

[O.C.D]

4 minutes ago, CS85 said:

 

Explain to me how my statement was controversial in the least.