Bill0813

Report: Cleveland Indians to Drop Name

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What about an automotive/mechanic logo package and calling the team the Cleveland Engines? It sounds similar which would make the name change easier for fans but a combustion engine is completely different and unique as a mascot and team name. Reminiscent of the Pistons

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I am trying to see the Rays play in all the MLB  stadiums. Cleveland wasn't a priority since they go there every year. Tried to priority inter-league games since those stadiums tend to happen every 3-6 years.

The Rays go there in July 2021 (if everything is okay). I'm going to have to figure out a way to make it up there to see them as the Indians. The stadium will be the same and I am for the same. But it will be different visiting after the name change. 
 

AL EAST - 2 / 3
 YES - NY Yankees
 Boston
 Toronto
 Baltimore
 YES - Tampa Bay
 

AL CENTRAL - 2
 YES - Minnesota
 Chicago White Sox
 Cleveland
 YES - Kansas City
 Detroit
 

AL WEST - 4
 YES - LA Angels
 Houston
 YES - Seattle (King Felix Perfect Game)
 Oakland
 YES - Texas / Old and New (World series)
 

NL EAST - 3 / 5
 YES - NY Mets 
 YES - Atlanta
 Philadelphia
 Washington
 YES - Miami
 

NL CENTRAL - 3
 YES - St. Louis
 YES - Chicago Cubs
 Milwaukee
 Cincinatti
 YES - Pittsburgh
 

NL WEST -4
 YES - San Francisco
 YES - Colorado
 YES - San Diego
 Arizona
 YES - LA Dodgers
 

Rays played in = 18 / Stadiums in total = 21 (Non-Rays = Shea Stadium/Yankee Stadium 2/Turner Field)
13 to go 

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1 minute ago, O.C.D said:

What about an automotive/mechanic logo package and calling the team the Cleveland Engines? It sounds similar which would make the name change easier for fans but a combustion engine is completely different and unique as a mascot and team name. Reminiscent of the Pistons


Combustion engines are already being fazed out. It will be almost antiquated in 10-20 years. 

Outside the box...sure. But dated. 

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3 hours ago, sc49erfan15 said:

I remember really hoping that the Expos would adopt an identity inspired by a Negro League team (Grays, specifically) upon their move to DC. I'd love for that to be an option here, but it doesn't work as well, as Cleveland's various Negro League teams (Browns, Elites, Hornets, [Tate] Stars, Tigers, Cubs, Giants, Red Sox, Buckeyes, Bears) just don't have alluring names. Anything that isn't already taken by an MLB team (Browns, Hornets, Stars, Buckeyes) is already taken by another Big 4 or major college team, or just doesn't work (Elites).

 

Forest Citys is just too archaic, so I guess it's either Spiders or Blues (both fine, but not enthralled by either) or something completely new.

  1. For a long time, I thought that an MLB team based in Nashville should be nicknamed the Elites as a tribute to Negro League baseball's Nashville Elite Giants of the 1920s and 1930s.  While the Music City Baseball group is proposing an MLB club whose name pays homage to Nashville's presence in baseball's Negro leagues, that organization intends to use a name used by at least two later Negro League teams, the Nashville Stars.  That leaves Elites wide open for Cleveland's MLB team to embrace, and I think that the connotation of success inherent in a nickname of Elites would be a fitting way for the Cleveland MLB club to break free from the legacy of decades of mediocrity.
  2. Spiders might be a great nickname in a vacuum, thanks to both its past use in professional baseball in Cleveland and the specter of the name of an often frightening animal "striking fear in the hearts of opponents."  Unfortunately, the 19th century's Cleveland Spiders pro baseball club had a track record of even more intense futility than what Cleveland's current MLB franchise has accumulated.
  3. Even if the NHL's St. Louis Blues are not relevant to this discussion, one should keep in mind that a Cleveland Blues brand, like a Cleveland Spiders identity, would be harkening back to a period of underachievement by a pro baseball team in Cleveland.  To make matters worse from a historical standpoint, the color blue had a more feminine connotation in the 20th century's earliest years than it does today, and the Cleveland Blues had many players who wanted the team to switch to a nickname that they perceived as being more masculine.  Finally, while Cleveland has a substantive historical tie to rock (and roll) music, I am not aware of any deep historical connection between Cleveland and blues music.
  4. With the possible exception of Elites, my preferred nickname for Cleveland's MLB team is Guardians, both in honor of the Guardians of Traffic sculptures and because of the potential image of the team as protecting and defending all that is great and good about Cleveland and its people.  A clear third place in my mind would go not to Blues, but to Blue Sox, if only to round out a patriotic color trio with Boston's Red Sox and Chicago's White Sox.

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55 minutes ago, O.C.D said:

What about an automotive/mechanic logo package and calling the team the Cleveland Engines? It sounds similar which would make the name change easier for fans but a combustion engine is completely different and unique as a mascot and team name.

 

A glaring problem with "Engines" as a replacement for "Indians" is that "engine" sounds much like "Injun" -- a corruption of "Indian" and, historically, one of the most widespread slurs that speakers of English have directed at Indigenous inhabitants of the Americas.

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3 minutes ago, joekono said:

Chiefs, Braves and Blackhawks,,,,,you're all on deck.


the bell cannot be unrung

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1 hour ago, Walk-Off said:
  1. For a long time, I thought that an MLB team based in Nashville should be nicknamed the Elites as a tribute to Negro League baseball's Nashville Elite Giants of the 1920s and 1930s.  While the Music City Baseball group is proposing an MLB club whose name pays homage to Nashville's presence in baseball's Negro leagues, that organization intends to use a name used by at least two later Negro League teams, the Nashville Stars.  That leaves Elites wide open for Cleveland's MLB team to embrace, and I think that the connotation of success inherent in a nickname of Elites would be a fitting way for the Cleveland MLB club to break free from the legacy of decades of mediocrity.
  2. Spiders might be a great nickname in a vacuum, thanks to both its past use in professional baseball in Cleveland and the specter of the name of an often frightening animal "striking fear in the hearts of opponents."  Unfortunately, the 19th century's Cleveland Spiders pro baseball club had a track record of even more intense futility than what Cleveland's current MLB franchise has accumulated.
  3. Even if the NHL's St. Louis Blues are not relevant to this discussion, one should keep in mind that a Cleveland Blues brand, like a Cleveland Spiders identity, would be harkening back to a period of underachievement by a pro baseball team in Cleveland.  To make matters worse from a historical standpoint, the color blue had a more feminine connotation in the 20th century's earliest years than it does today, and the Cleveland Blues had many players who wanted the team to switch to a nickname that they perceived as being more masculine.  Finally, while Cleveland has a substantive historical tie to rock (and roll) music, I am not aware of any deep historical connection between Cleveland and blues music.
  4. With the possible exception of Elites, my preferred nickname for Cleveland's MLB team is Guardians, both in honor of the Guardians of Traffic sculptures and because of the potential image of the team as protecting and defending all that is great and good about Cleveland and its people.  A clear third place in my mind would go not to Blues, but to Blue Sox, if only to round out a patriotic color trio with Boston's Red Sox and Chicago's White Sox.


Elite(s) or Blue(s) might be good

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As per the article from the mothership, the Indians were named in honor of Louis Sockalexis, the first Native American to play baseball professionally, who was signed by the Cleveland Spiders. And since they're going away from "Indians", the next logical way to still honor him would be to name them after the team that signed him, the Spiders.

 

Therefore, "Spiders" is the only logical choice and so "Spiders" it is. No other options. The discussion is over. Begin the design process. (Is there a "proud of one's self" emoji? Or a "give yourself a pat on the back" one?)

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4 hours ago, joekono said:

Chiefs, Braves and Blackhawks,,,,,you're all on deck.


Let’s focus this thread infinitely less on other Native American/First Nations/etc mascots.  

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On 7/4/2020 at 12:42 PM, TenaciousG said:

I’ve always appreciated how tight of a relationship the Spokane Indians have with the Spokane tribe... if the Cleveland Indians partner with a local tribe in the same way I don’t see an issue with the name. It’s insane to me how long Chief Wahoo lasted... clearly a caricature and I’m not sure why some people were playing the history card when the team is historically quite bad and possibly even cursed (blown two WS Game 7s).

One could argue that Chief Wahoo being around for so long poisoned the well with the name. The name would likely be around forever had they dropped Wahoo in the 70s and then gone the Spokane route in the 2000s. 

Instead they held on to the racist cartoon until everyone was so fed up with them that a full change was probably for the best. 

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8 hours ago, FiddySicks said:

Awesome. I hope they go with Spiders, and I hope their colors are purple, black, and just a hint of red
 

We’ve already got the subtle tribute to Native Americans, but in a less offensive way, covered with the Braves. I don’t really think there was a road the Indians could’ve gone down that would’ve been effective had they kept the name. Why not start fresh rather than be perpetually handcuffed by past connotations? 

Nah. Those are Ravens colors, and that would not fly in Cleveland. 

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23 minutes ago, IceCap said:

One could argue that Chief Wahoo being around for so long poisoned the well with the name. The name would likely be around forever had they dropped Wahoo in the 70s and then gone the Spokane route in the 2000s. 

Instead they held on to the racist cartoon until everyone was so fed up with them that a full change was probably for the best. 

 

Was it for the 2008 season that they started working the block C in on alternates? I want to say so. There was the abortive attempt to do that with the cursive capital I that no one particularly liked even before that.

 

It's a two-way street, though: even as they were trying to phase it out in the 2000s, there was still a market for Chief Wahoo stuff. It wasn't that the Jacobses or the Dolans were intent on hurting Indians, fans just liked Wahoo stuff, so they bought it. If there hadn't been sufficient demand, they would have been much swifter and more decisive, which was what drove the replacement of the last-ranked Washington Bullets. "Why didn't the elites just tell their social lessers what was best for them and make them stop hurting people's feelings" is post-realignment mindset, it would have been anachronistic even 13 years ago. 

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5 hours ago, Walk-Off said:
  1. For a long time, I thought that an MLB team based in Nashville should be nicknamed the Elites as a tribute to Negro League baseball's Nashville Elite Giants of the 1920s and 1930s.  While the Music City Baseball group is proposing an MLB club whose name pays homage to Nashville's presence in baseball's Negro leagues, that organization intends to use a name used by at least two later Negro League teams, the Nashville Stars.  That leaves Elites wide open for Cleveland's MLB team to embrace, and I think that the connotation of success inherent in a nickname of Elites would be a fitting way for the Cleveland MLB club to break free from the legacy of decades of mediocrity.
  2. Spiders might be a great nickname in a vacuum, thanks to both its past use in professional baseball in Cleveland and the specter of the name of an often frightening animal "striking fear in the hearts of opponents."  Unfortunately, the 19th century's Cleveland Spiders pro baseball club had a track record of even more intense futility than what Cleveland's current MLB franchise has accumulated.
  3. Even if the NHL's St. Louis Blues are not relevant to this discussion, one should keep in mind that a Cleveland Blues brand, like a Cleveland Spiders identity, would be harkening back to a period of underachievement by a pro baseball team in Cleveland.  To make matters worse from a historical standpoint, the color blue had a more feminine connotation in the 20th century's earliest years than it does today, and the Cleveland Blues had many players who wanted the team to switch to a nickname that they perceived as being more masculine.  Finally, while Cleveland has a substantive historical tie to rock (and roll) music, I am not aware of any deep historical connection between Cleveland and blues music.
  4. With the possible exception of Elites, my preferred nickname for Cleveland's MLB team is Guardians, both in honor of the Guardians of Traffic sculptures and because of the potential image of the team as protecting and defending all that is great and good about Cleveland and its people.  A clear third place in my mind would go not to Blues, but to Blue Sox, if only to round out a patriotic color trio with Boston's Red Sox and Chicago's White Sox.

I was thinking about Blue Sox last night. Maybe Barons. Naps, Spiders, Gibsons-for Josh or the guitar brands (a reach I know) 

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I understand the Naps suggestion (shortened from Napoleons, I guess?), but it’s way too close to a couple Japanese slurs for my taste, plus the Nationals are already known as the Nats anyway.  

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Yeah, like Nap Lajoie. It doesn't work, naps are sleeping. That's no good. 

 

"Blue Sox" is a lousy idea when there are already two Sox teams and the Indians are rivals with one of them. 

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Cleveland Wall Sox, since Walleye is too modern sounding 

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