2021-2022 NHL Jersey Changes

[Sport]

1 minute ago, WSU151 said:

 

But you also used selection bias in your opinion...and when we look at other pictures, your opinion is easy to argue. 

 

I don't see where the selection bias is. I've been consistent since my first post. 
 

If we have to use blue instead of black then I just want this

 

 

That's a more harmonious use of these colors and every element plays by the same set of rules. 

 

 

 

 

[AFirestormToPurify]

I would usually agree with you @Sport as I hate when royal blue and red touch (especially with shiny/reflective twill names and numbers), but in this case, there is more than enough contrast between the burgundy and slate blue imo. I do agree that a silver outline would be better, but it's not a dealbreaker imo. I also agree that if they changed the colour of the shoulder patches on the away jersey, it would be another little improvement that makes a huge difference and makes the whole thing look more cohesive and well thought out

The other small thing they need to do asap is to switch the white cuff roll on the gloves to either silver/gray or burgundy

[Sport]

1 minute ago, AFirestormToPurify said:

I would usually agree with you @Sport as I hate when royal blue and red touch (especially with shiny/reflective twill names and numbers), but in this case, there is more than enough contrast between the burgundy and slate blue imo. I do agree that a silver outline would be better, but it's not a dealbreaker imo. I also agree that if they changed the colour of the shoulder patches on the away jersey, it would be another little improvement that makes a huge difference and make the whole thing look more cohesive and well thought out

The other small thing they need to do asap is to switch the white cuff roll on the gloves to either silver/gray or burgundy

 

I'm being misunderstood. I'm not talking about contrast. I'm talking about the relationship between these two colors and how the two interact when placed directly next to each other, which is why the two colors have been separated by at least one other color for almost all of the team's entire history until this recent decision to outline the blue numbers this way. 

 

One of the rare cases where they didn't buffer the two colors they got this stupid look.  

[throwuascenario]

On 6/19/2022 at 2:27 PM, tBBP said:

 

I don't know about that...they would have had to wrest that IP from the New Jersey Devils to have a shot at it.

 

And regarding the Yeti foot--not to mention this particular tangent of discussion as a whole: I think sometimes people forget it's perfectly okay to have FUN with a sports brand (or at least an element of it)...okay, so what Sasquach was more related to the Himalayas than the Rockies? Unless you were at a zoo, you ain't never seen a penguin in Pittsburgh, either, and yet...they even went so far as to nickname the former Civic Arena/Mellon Dome "The Igloo". See? Fun. That's what the Yeti foot represented to me...a more fun, lighthearted aspect of their brand. And if you play it right, with an element like that, it actually allows for further brand expansion, probably for more like fan gear or something...imagine a bunch of Yeti monster T-shirts available for young fans. And while I'm on that tangent: think of the kids. If you want to hook kids on your brand, well...that there is how you do it: hook them on something fun. (There's a reason minor league baseball makes its living with that approach, after all.) On the other hand, sometimes the problem with going hyper-local is that you can paint yourself right into a corner which can prohibit potential brand expansion (and thus more revenue opportunities...yes, there's a business aspect of this to consider, as well.)

 

This all reminds me that not that long ago someone over in the Concepts section posted a design for a fictitious team he called the Carolina Crocs...and people jumped all over him for using "Crocs" as a nickname, mainly reasoning that there are no crocodiles in the Carolinas. I remember replying along the lines of "well there aren't any jaguars in Jacksonville, either, and yet...sometimes it's okay to have fun with a name. So what there aren't any crocs in Carolina? The name is fun and alliterative (much like Jacksonville), and sometimes that works just as well if not better than trying to go hyper-local so often.

 

Really the most important thing is finding something tangible that fans can connect with on an emotional level, whatever that is, hyper-local, fun and imaginative, whatever an organization feel resonates best and presents the best opportunities to generate connection and revenue...at the end of the day, that's the key to successful branding. (That's a free nugget for anyone who wants it...and for what it's worth, this is fifteen years of experience talking to you here.)

 

A great brand will organically become part of the city's image over time, so doesn't need local references or imagery to represent the city.

[WSU151]

20 minutes ago, Sport said:

 

I'm being misunderstood. I'm not talking about contrast. I'm talking about the relationship between these two colors and how the two interact when placed directly next to each other, which is why the two colors have been separated by at least one other color for almost all of the team's entire history until this recent decision to outline the blue numbers this way. 

 

One of the rare cases where they didn't buffer the two colors they got this stupid look.  

 

Post a picture of the current back numbers, on the white jersey, in black and white.  You'll see a clear dark outline on the brighter blue numbers.  I'm not sure posting burgandy jerseys with white numbers proves anything, since the current burgandy jerseys have white numbers with silver outlines and without blue outlines. Blue doesn't touch the white back number on the current jersey. 

 

There'd be more of a vibrating issue if the numbers were slate blue with a bright scarlet.  The burgandy is so dark and muted there's no issue. 

 

The Rangers' away jersey numbers have serious issues in grayscale but they don't need to change them either. 

[GFB]

Just to echo what @Sport is saying,  I won't reshare or restate my earlier post on the topic, but this was the best descriptor I found: 

 

 

 

 

The burgundy and slate blue contrast because the hues are on the opposite ends of the color spectrum. However, you don't get the same degree of contrast as you would with a team like the Rangers (white line) because their blue and red are fully saturated and fully bright (sitting on the top level of the 3D color wheel), which nets contrast on three different scales, while the Avs (black line) colors are half-saturated and much less bright (probably sitting in a middle-to-bottom layer of that pie), only netting you meaningful contrast on the hue spectrum.

 

To @WSU151's point about the numbers having sufficient contrast, in this I would agree, mostly because the burgundy thread used for the outlines comes off slightly darker than the burgundy jersey fabric and the slate blue numbers are more reflective (and thus lighter) than the jersey fabric... so we do get more contrast in this one specific area than we do anwhere else on the uniform, where the burgundy acts a dark tone and the slate blue acts as a midtone. 

 

So yeah, I think the numbers have sufficient contrast (mostly by accident due to the fabrics involved)... but, the question of whether or not the numbers actually look good is another question entirely 

 

[Sport]

22 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

 

Post a picture of the current back numbers, on the white jersey, in black and white.  You'll see a clear dark outline on the brighter blue numbers. 

 

Again I'm not talking about contrast. I'm talking about the relationship between these two colors and how the two interact when placed directly next to each other.

 

22 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

I'm not sure posting burgandy jerseys with white numbers proves anything, since the current burgandy jerseys have white numbers with silver outlines and without blue outlines. Blue doesn't touch the white back number on the current jersey. 

 

I shared that photo because I was pointing out where the blue yoke meets the burgundy jersey without a color separating the two and how rough that looks.  

 

22 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

 

There'd be more of a vibrating issue if the numbers were slate blue with a bright scarlet.  The burgandy is so dark and muted there's no issue. 

 

The colors do vibrate with one another, but if you ignore that, the color on the numbers still doesn't match the blue in the rest of the uniform, the burgundy outline on the numbers still doesn't match the burgundy on the rest of the uniform, and the two colors touch each other when they don't touch anywhere else on the rest of the uniform. So like I said earlier, there's like 3 problems created by outlining the numbers in burgundy that could've been avoided if they'd just kept the stroke silver and the whole thing would look better. 

 

22 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

The Rangers' away jersey numbers have serious issues in grayscale but they don't need to change them either. 

 

The Rangers are grandfathered in my mind because they've been doing it for so long, but if they started today that's not how I'd scheme their numbers. The Avs made this change in 2021, though, so they had all the color theory and material tests at their disposal, they even had the previous black numbers with silver outline to use as the proof of concept, and still made the wrong decision, which is less excusable. 

 

16 minutes ago, GFB said:

To @WSU151's point about the numbers having sufficient contrast, in this I would agree, mostly because the burgundy thread used for the outlines comes off much darker than the burgundy jersey fabric and the slate blue numbers are slightly more reflective (and thus lighter) than the fabric... so we get more contrast in this one specific area than we do anwhere else on the uniform, where the burgundy acts a dark tone and the slate blue acts as a midtone. 

 

 

Knowing all that, the question is, "but does it look good?" And I'm saying no, that inconsistency in color and usage creates this incongruent element that sticks out, which is why they look like they took the jerseys to a local seamstress and they did their best to match colors with materials they had on hand. 

[WSU151]

8 minutes ago, Sport said:

 

Again I'm not talking about contrast. I'm talking about the relationship between these two colors and how the two interact when placed directly next to each other.

 

You complained about the blue numbers on the back by showing a gray scale photo of the front. 

[Sport]

Just now, WSU151 said:

 

You complained about the blue numbers on the back by showing a gray scale photo of the front. 

 

And as I explained at least twice I did that to demonstrate how close these two colors are in value, which is why it's best to avoid placing them directly next to each other. 

 

That photo also demonstrates on MacKinnon's "A" how way off the blue on the number is from the color they're supposed to be, which isn't a point in its favor!

[WSU151]

48 minutes ago, Sport said:

 

And as I explained at least twice I did that to demonstrate how close these two colors are in value, which is why it's best to avoid placing them directly next to each other. 

 

That photo also demonstrates on MacKinnon's "A" how way off the blue on the number is from the color they're supposed to be, which isn't a point in its favor!

 

So you didn't post a picture of the back numbers in gray scale because....

 

Your solution (which still pairs a burgandy-heavy jersey (both home and away) with blue pants and blue gloves) doesn't fix the problem that is making you so annoyed, and your blue numbers would still mismatch with the rest of the equipment in real life (just because you can make things match on a computer screen doesn't mean that's how it ends up on real materials).

 

The Avs wore slate blue-on-burgandy numbers for their Reverse Retro and it looked fine despite burgandy and slate not touching in the vintage logo...of course it looked better with burgandy pants, but the numbers were the exact same layered combo....and with that said, that means that the Nordiques probably had vibration issues with their lighter blue/red numbers that no one ever complained about. 

 

 

Have a good one. 

[Sport]

5 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

 

So you didn't post a picture of the back numbers in gray scale because....

 

Your solution (which still pairs a burgandy-heavy jersey (both home and away) with blue pants and blue gloves)

 

I don't want the Avs to wear blue pants and gloves. If I had my druthers they'd be wearing what they wore in 2001 (with some small changes here and there). My solution is trying to make the best of their current road uniform. Thought that was pretty clear from the get-go. 

 

5 minutes ago, WSU151 said:

doesn't fix the problem that is making you so butthurt. 

 

My solution is blue numbers with a gray stroke. It solves all the problems that are making me so butthurt. 

 

[WSU151]

11 minutes ago, Sport said:

 

I don't want the Avs to wear blue pants and gloves. If I had my druthers they'd be wearing what they wore in 2001 (with some small changes here and there). My solution is trying to make the best of their current road uniform. Thought that was pretty clear from the get-go. 

.

Your proposed solution in the first post of this page shows blue gloves and pants. But hey, keep pretending your message is clear. 

 

There's no way black pants and numbers are coming back, as those looked pretty bad in retrospect. 

[Sport]

1 minute ago, WSU151 said:

.

Your proposed solution in the first post of this page shows blue gloves and pants. But hey, keep pretending your message is clear. 

 

YEAH I was trying to show how to fix this one issue with their current uniform without overhauling their entire existing uniform. I even said "If we have to use blue instead of black then I just want this". Couldn't have been more clear. 

 

1 hour ago, WSU151 said:

 

So you didn't post a picture of the back numbers in gray scale because....

 

Your solution (which still pairs a burgandy-heavy jersey (both home and away) with blue pants and blue gloves) doesn't fix the problem that is making you so annoyed,

 

I thought I was "Butthurt"?

 

1 hour ago, WSU151 said:

and your blue numbers would still mismatch with the rest of the equipment in real life (just because you can make things match on a computer screen doesn't mean that's how it ends up on real materials).

 

No I'm saying the burgundy outline makes the blue appear brighter than it actually is. A gray stroke on the same blue number would "shock" it less. 

 

 

1 hour ago, WSU151 said:

The Avs wore slate blue-on-burgandy numbers for their Reverse Retro and it looked fine

 

Did it? Looks like the same issue. 

 

1 hour ago, WSU151 said:

despite burgandy and slate not touching in the vintage logo...of course it looked better with burgandy pants, but the numbers were the exact same layered combo....and with that said, that means that the Nordiques probably had vibration issues with their lighter blue/red numbers that no one ever complained about. 

 

 

Have a good one. 

 

Same exact problem. Nobody cared because it was a short lived event that wasn't a full-time uniform. If it was a full-time uniform I'd say the same beef.

 

And just because nobody complained about the Nordiques 30 years ago doesn't mean the current Avs couldn't do something to look better. CRIMINY. 

[AFirestormToPurify]

1 hour ago, WSU151 said:

The Avs wore slate blue-on-burgandy numbers for their Reverse Retro and it looked fine despite burgandy and slate not touching in the vintage logo...of course it looked better with burgandy pants, but the numbers were the exact same layered combo....and with that said, that means that the Nordiques probably had vibration issues with their lighter blue/red numbers that no one ever complained about.

I am lol. I have many problems with that jersey

[WSU151]

1 hour ago, Sport said:

 

YEAH I was trying to show how to fix this one issue with their current uniform without overhauling their entire existing uniform. I even said "If we have to use blue instead of black then I just want this". Couldn't have been more clear. 

 

If you said "Going by the numbers only, if we have to use blue instead of black then I just want this (so ignore the blue pants and blue gloves)" it would have been far more clear. So yeah, you could have been more clear, especially on a message board.

 

 

Quote

No I'm saying the burgundy outline makes the blue appear brighter than it actually is. A gray stroke on the same blue number would "shock" it less. 

 

You sure it's not just the twill material? There's literally no way to prove this assumption without a side-by-side real life comparison that's not a computer graphic. 

 

If the blue on the current numbers is the exact same color as jersey and equipment, and it's just the burgundy outline that makes the blue look like a lighter shade, then is the burgundy jersey making the blue yoke look similarly lighter in this picture?

 

You can't say burgandy makes the blue look lighter with good contrast...then say burgandy next to the same blue is way too muddied and dark. 

 

Anyway, have a good one

 

 

 

 

 

[oldschoolvikings]

This argument would be much more entertaining  without the passive aggressive “have a good one”. 

[GriffinM6]

8 hours ago, Sport said:

 

I don't see where the selection bias is. I've been consistent since my first post. 
 

If we have to use blue instead of black then I just want this

 

 

That's a more harmonious use of these colors and every element plays by the same set of rules. 

 

 

 

 

Just needs the extra blue stripe bordering the silver and it's perfect.

[TalktoChuck]

1 hour ago, GriffinM6 said:

Just needs the extra blue stripe bordering the silver and it's perfect.

 

Still needs silver outlines on the numbers. Whether it's a double outline or single outline, silver needs to be on the numbers.

[Sport]

14 hours ago, WSU151 said:

 

If you said "Going by the numbers only, if we have to use blue instead of black then I just want this (so ignore the blue pants and blue gloves)" it would have been far more clear. So yeah, you could have been more clear, especially on a message board.

 

 

It was my fourth post on this subject and the first one was beyond thorough in talking about fixing the issues with their current road uniform. I could not have been more clear. 

 

14 hours ago, WSU151 said:

 

You sure it's not just the twill material? There's literally no way to prove this assumption without a side-by-side real life comparison that's not a computer graphic. 

 

I'm not sure it's not just the twill material which is why I'm saying don't do something (outline the numbers with burgundy) that makes the number color appear brighter than it already is. 

 

14 hours ago, WSU151 said:

If the blue on the current numbers is the exact same color as jersey and equipment,

 

 

Never said it was. In fact I said multiple times that it appears brighter than the rest of the blue equipment, which is in and of itself a problem. 

 

14 hours ago, WSU151 said:

and it's just the burgundy outline that makes the blue look like a lighter shade, then is the burgundy jersey making the blue yoke look similarly lighter in this picture?

 

No.

 

14 hours ago, WSU151 said:

You can't say burgandy makes the blue look lighter with good contrast...then say burgandy next to the same blue is way too muddied and dark. 

 

 

That is not what I said. I said, again, "the two colors are too close in value to have them touch like that". The blue looks brighter on the numbers because the hard edge stroke makes it stand off from the white background and appear brighter and/or they literally chose to use a brighter blue and a darker burgundy stroke to improve contrast. In either case, using a blue that looks brighter (either by their deliberate choice or by the laws of fabric/color/light) from the rest of the blues on the uniforms is not a good thing! If they outline the number with silver it'll draw less attention to the color difference, it'll soften the intensity of the blue, and lessen issues they have with matching twill. 

 

[WSU151]

Holy are you still doing this today? Did you really wake up this morning and think "You know what the best plan is...continuing this stupid argument with that ignorant mother:censored:er named WSU151!!" 

 

I thought you wanted to quit yesterday when you said "Have a good one" but you keep going and going. Trust me bro, Adidas isn't going to hire you to "fix" the NHL no matter how many multi-quote posts you post on this board.  

 

Log off brother.  Touch some grass.  You don't have to continuously prove to strangers on the internet that you think you're the smartest man alive and god's gift to humankind. like this reeks of some manic low-level insecurities you have. 

 

I don't care anymore.  Neither should you.