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NFL Offseason 2021: Ride the QB Carousel of Horror

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14 minutes ago, AustinFromBoston said:

Ask yourself would you want 14 years of “consistency”, only to fall apart in the playoffs year after year?
 

Or would you rather actually make & possibly win a Super Bowl?  
 

 

Unfortunately, those are FAR from the only two choices.

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For literally anyone but a New England fan, what the Steelers have received is pretty much the dream for other teams. While obviously winning a Super Bowl is the ultimate goal (and I generally agree that Tomlin and his teams have underperformed in the playoffs) 14 years of consistent winning records would be amazing. The Panthers have literally never had back-to-back winning seasons so hell yeah I'll take 14 years of being one of the top teams in the league.

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41 minutes ago, AustinFromBoston said:

Ask yourself would you want 14 years of “consistency”, only to fall apart in the playoffs year after year?
 

Or would you rather actually make & possibly win a Super Bowl?  

 

Tomlin has done both. So yeah, I'd take him. If you were a fan of any team other than the Patriots, so would you.

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36 minutes ago, AustinFromBoston said:

Ask yourself would you want 14 years of “consistency”, only to fall apart in the playoffs year after year? Or would you rather actually make & possibly win a Super Bowl?  
 

Garrett & McCarthy were also pretty consistent coaches too (McCarthy actually had more success than Tomlin making the conference game multiple times) but they both got fired. 
Only reason Tomlin hasn’t is because the Steelers never fire anyone. 

I'm a Browns fan. Yes I would! Because watching Hue Jackson bumble his way to 3-36-1 and Freddie Kitchens get too big for his britches in less than a year isn't the most enjoyable way to watch football. Tomlin made two Super Bowls, won one and lost one. You know what? There are plenty of coaches that made no Super Bowls and get more credit than he does. Heck, Pete Carroll's won just as many Super Bowls but people think he's some genius while his QB leads the league in getting sacked for 8 straight years. And unless Tomlin starts throwing the football, you can't blame him for those 5 interceptions. 

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I blame Tomlin for constantly underachieving with the talent he had. Yes he’s had consistently winning seasons but what has all that amounted to? Especially recently?
 

Yeah he won a Super Bowl over a decade ago, since then he’s had teams as good if not better than that one, and accomplish nothing. 
Carrol, Reid, Arians have all had more success recently than he has. 
 

McCarthy & Garrett had about as much success as Tomlin (if not more in McCarthy’s case) and their teams still moved on from them. 

 

If I was a Steelers fan, yeah I’d want him gone at this point. 
Switch it around and this was Belichick with the Patriots, yeah I’d want him fired too. 
At some point, once you’re team is proven good enough, winning a Super Bowl is the only thing that matters. 

 

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13 minutes ago, AustinFromBoston said:

I blame Tomlin for constantly underachieving with the talent he had. Yes he’s had consistently winning seasons but what has all that amounted to? Especially recently?
 

Yeah he won a Super Bowl over a decade ago, since then he’s had teams as good if not better than that one, and accomplish nothing. 
Carrol, Reid, Arians have all had more success recently than he has. 
 

McCarthy & Garrett had about as much success as Tomlin (if not more in McCarthy’s case) and their teams still moved on from them. 

 

If I was a Steelers fan, yeah I’d want him gone at this point. 
Switch it around and this was Belichick with the Patriots, yeah I’d want him fired too. 
At some point, once you’re team is proven good enough, winning a Super Bowl is the only thing that matters. 

 

The team that routinely beat him was yours, do you hold Pete Carroll and Andy Reid to the same standard? I'd say Andy Reid did less with more, especially after last year's Super Bowl loss.

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6 minutes ago, AustinFromBoston said:

I blame Tomlin for constantly underachieving with the talent he had. Yes he’s had consistently winning seasons but what has all that amounted to? Especially recently?
 

Yeah he won a Super Bowl over a decade ago, since then he’s had teams as good if not better than that one, and accomplish nothing. 
Carrol, Reid, Arians have all had more success recently than he has. 
 

McCarthy & Garrett had about as much success as Tomlin (if not more in McCarthy’s case) and their teams still moved on from them. 

 

If I was a Steelers fan, yeah I’d want him gone at this point. 
Switch it around and this was Belichick with the Patriots, yeah I’d want him fired too. 
At some point, once you’re team is proven good enough, winning a Super Bowl is the only thing that matters. 

 

Constantly putting your players in a position to win one deserves some credit. At the end of the day, it's up to Ben, JuJu Social-Schuster and the rest of them to win games. As previously mentioned, no gameplanning can prevent a center from snapping the ball to the stadium roof, of a QB from being inaccurate. You want to watch great minds battle it out? Go watch some chess. Otherwise, don't pick on other coaches for not having Thomas Edward Patrick Brady, Jr.

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1 hour ago, AustinFromBoston said:

Ask yourself would you want 14 years of “consistency”, only to fall apart in the playoffs year after year?
 

 

Yes. 1000 times yes. 

 

1 hour ago, AustinFromBoston said:

Or would you rather actually make & possibly win a Super Bowl?  
 

 

I'm old enough to remember 2008. (and 2005, which wasn't Tomlin, but it was recent enough for any Steelers fan older than 25 to have enjoyed, which is why they all need to STFU and go away until I say they can return (likely never)). You're the only person more spoiled than Steelers fans. 

 

 

 

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55 minutes ago, AustinFromBoston said:

I blame Tomlin for constantly underachieving with the talent he had. Yeah he won a Super Bowl over a decade ago, since then he’s had teams as good if not better than that one, and accomplish nothing. 
 

 

 

You know how you can tell when a team has Super Bowl caliber talent?  When they get to and/or win the Super Bowl.  Otherwise, it's just another opinion.

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49 minutes ago, AustinFromBoston said:

At some point, once you’re team is proven good enough, winning a Super Bowl is the only thing that matters. 

 

 

I don't totally disagree with this.  Under Andy Reid, the Eagles made 5 conf title games, were consistently a 11-12 win team (up until ownership came up with the 'dream team' concept) and made a SB.  But they never won, and he was outcoached badly in many of those critical games - wasting the talent.  

 

I was a loud critic of Andy Reid and wanted him fired years before it finally happened.  That's not dissimilar to the situation with Tomlin, except he didn't build the team from nothing like Reid did, and was able to win a SB at the start of his run.

 

 

1 hour ago, AustinFromBoston said:

Ask yourself would you want 14 years of “consistency”, only to fall apart in the playoffs year after year?
 

Or would you rather actually make & possibly win a Super Bowl?  

 

This was basically the Eagles situation.  And now that I've seen both (14 years of being a legit SB contender but never winning, vs 1 dominating year and being the champs but then having it all quickly fall apart) I have to say that I kinda lean towards the 14 years, for the sole reason that it gives you something to watch every single Sunday, and you always feel like you have a chance.  While I wouldn't trade seeing the Eagles defeat the Patriots in the SB for anything, it kinda sucks when you're watching a game just to see how a rookie QB does, or... don't even watch at all because it doesn't matter.  At the end of the day it's entertainment, and I'd rather have 17-20 weeks of entertainment than seasons that are over after 4 weeks.

 

However, as someone else mentioned, those aren't the only four choices.  Tomlin defenders make it sound like if they fired him, they'd be giving up all that consistency and starting over.  Reid defenders used to say the same.  But why would that be the case?  

 

The example is John Gruden.  I wouldn't compare Tony Dungy to either Reid or Tomlin, but he had the Bucs pretty good.  "Oh, if we fire Dungy, we'll go back to the old days of being a laughing stock" some folks said.  But then they brought in someone else and he instantly took them over the hump.  Don't be afraid of the unknown.  If ownership has confidence in their ability to identify the right guy, then they shouldn't hesitate to replace him.  If they don't, or if they legit believe he's still the right guy, then they should keep him.

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5 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

The team that routinely beat him was yours, do you hold Pete Carroll and Andy Reid to the same standard? I'd say Andy Reid did less with more, especially after last year's Super Bowl loss.

Seahawks & KC haven’t had the same level of sustained success the Steelers have had with Tomlin, and yet they’ve both Have had more success than him that’s the point. 
 

4 minutes ago, LA Fakers+ LA Snippers said:

Constantly putting your players in a position to win one deserves some credit. At the end of the day, it's up to Ben, JuJu Social-Schuster and the rest of them to win games. As previously mentioned, no gameplanning can prevent a center from snapping the ball to the stadium roof, of a QB from being inaccurate. You want to watch great minds battle it out? Go watch some chess. Otherwise, don't pick on other coaches for not having Thomas Edward Patrick Brady, Jr.

So was it Ben’s fault that Juju wasn’t disciplined for his tick Tock crap? 

Was it Ben’s fault “the Browns are the Browns” and “they’re nameless grey faces”?

It was Ben’s fault they completely overlooked Jacksonville? 
Football is a team sport, you can’t solely blame Ben & the other players when they constantly get out coached time & again. 
 

19 minutes ago, Sport said:

I'm old enough to remember 2008. (and 2005, which wasn't Tomlin, but it was recent enough for any Steelers fan older than 25 to have enjoyed, which is why they all need to STFU and go away until I say they can return (likely never)). You're the only person more spoiled than Steelers fans. 

So just to be clear, you’re saying you would prefer your team not win a Super Bowl, and just be good enough to lose in the playoff year after year? 

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4 minutes ago, AustinFromBoston said:

Seahawks & KC haven’t had the same level of sustained success the Steelers have had with Tomlin, and yet they’ve both Have had more success than him that’s the point. 
 

So was it Ben’s fault that Juju wasn’t disciplined for his tick Tock crap? 

Was it Ben’s fault “the Browns are the Browns” and “they’re nameless grey faces”?

It was Ben’s fault they completely overlooked Jacksonville? 
Football is a team sport, you can’t solely blame Ben & the other players when they constantly get out coached time & again. 
 

So just to be clear, you’re saying you would prefer your team not win a Super Bowl, and just be good enough to lose in the playoff year after year? 

- JuJu was disciplined

- Ben still has to beat those grey faces, and everyone else on the roster

- Yes, because he's a captain, the coaches don't play

I didn't blame him for anything other than throwing interceptions. And if Ben can't be blamed for that, Tomlin can't be blamed for losing in the playoffs. Why aren't you dropping all this type of heat on Sean Payton then? He hasn't won since 2009 and the Saints have flamed out in the first or second round of the playoffs every year since 2017. Even worse, Kevin James is playing him in a movie. Even Tomlin doesn't have it that bad. Also according to you, Seattle and KC have had more success but they've both won the same amount of titles as him. Carroll's teams were in the Super Bowl in 2006 with Pete Carroll, so their success is not some recent creation.

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3 minutes ago, AustinFromBoston said:

 

So just to be clear, you’re saying you would prefer your team not win a Super Bowl, and just be good enough to lose in the playoff year after year? 

 

Wow, no, that apparently wasn't clear to you at all.

 

He's saying he'd rather have his team make the playoffs for 14 years than just to have them suck.

 

Just to be clear.

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3 minutes ago, oldschoolvikings said:

You know how you can tell when a team has Super Bowl caliber talent?  When they get to and/or win the Super Bowl.  Otherwise, it's just another opinion.

When you have team lead by a hall of fame QB, surrounded by All Pro talent, they’re a Super Bowl team.

Everyone expects them to make the Super Bowl.  
 

 

4 minutes ago, BBTV said:

The example is John Gruden.  I wouldn't compare Tony Dungy to either Reid or Tomlin, but he had the Bucs pretty good.  "Oh, if we fire Dungy, we'll go back to the old days of being a laughing stock" some folks said.  But then they brought in someone else and he instantly took them over the hump.  Don't be afraid of the unknown.  If ownership has confidence in their ability to identify the right guy, then they shouldn't hesitate to replace him.  If they don't, or if they legit believe he's still the right guy, then they should keep him.

Yup, a great example are The Packers, they got rid of the coach that got them to multiple conference championships (even if they lost they still made it that far), and not only did they still make it back, Rodgers had an MVP season.

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Just now, AustinFromBoston said:


 

So just to be clear, you’re saying you would prefer your team not win a Super Bowl, and just be good enough to lose in the playoff year after year? 

 

No. I'm saying that I would prefer to have won championships in 2005, 2008, and then the last 13 years of competitive to excellent play than what it is I've experienced with my team. I'm a realist and understand that winning, IDK, 6 Super Bowls in 20 years isn't a reasonable expectation for anyone in a league with 32 teams with rules designed to induce parity. If that's your standard you'll never be happy. You're the only person more spoiled than Steelers fans. 

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2 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

- JuJu was disciplined

- Ben still has to beat those grey faces, and everyone else on the roster

- Yes, because he's a captain, the coaches don't play

I didn't blame him for anything other than throwing interceptions. And if Ben can't be blamed for that, Tomlin can't be blamed for losing in the playoffs. Why aren't you dropping all this type of heat on Sean Payton then? He hasn't won since 2009 and the Saints have flamed out in the first or second round of the playoffs every year since 2017. Even worse, Kevin James is playing him in a movie. Even Tomlin doesn't have it that bad. 

Because Payton hasn’t had as good a team or as much consistency as Tomlinson has had with The Steelers. 
 

I don’t get why that’s such a difficult concept to grasp. 

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1 minute ago, Sport said:

 

No. I'm saying that I would prefer to have won championships in 2005, 2008, and then the last 13 years of competitive to excellent play than what it is I've experienced with my team. I'm a realist and understand that winning, IDK, 6 Super Bowls in 20 years isn't a reasonable expectation for anyone in a league with 32 teams with rules designed to induce parity. If that's your standard you'll never be happy. You're the only person more spoiled than Steelers fans. 

That’s not what I asked. At all. 
If my team has been  one of the most consistently good teams for over a decade, why Is it so crazy to expect them to at least make, let alone win 1 Super Bowl? 
I’m not talking 6, just 1 or 2. And not even winning, just making it there. 

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2 hours ago, AustinFromBoston said:

Ask yourself would you want 14 years of “consistency”, only to fall apart in the playoffs year after year?

 

(Thinks back to Rams from 2005-2016)

 

Yes, actually.

 

2 hours ago, AustinFromBoston said:

Or would you rather actually make & possibly win a Super Bowl?

 

That'd be nice, but you need the dance ticket first.

2 hours ago, AustinFromBoston said:

Garrett & McCarthy were also pretty consistent coaches too (McCarthy actually had more success than Tomlin making the conference game multiple times) but they both got fired. 
Only reason Tomlin hasn’t is because the Steelers never fire anyone. 

 

So be it.

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12 minutes ago, AustinFromBoston said:

Because Payton hasn’t had as good a team or as much consistency as Tomlinson has had with The Steelers. 

 

Alright, that's laughable.

 

Drew Brees, Alvin Kamara, Michael Thomas and they've been stacked with defensive talent too.  He had Ingram and Kamara at one point.

 

I'm still not sure how you can use Le'Veon Bell to argue against Tomlin when he missed the playoffs two out of four years and was injured after five carries in the AFC Championship game in another year.

 

 

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19 minutes ago, AustinFromBoston said:

Because Payton hasn’t had as good a team or as much consistency as Tomlinson has had with The Steelers. 
 

I don’t get why that’s such a difficult concept to grasp. 

Because you're not even applying it equally! Every time we bring up someone other than Tomlin who's been coaching just as long as him, you have an excuse for them. Carroll, Payton, Reid, etc. What's the reason you think he's had better teams? Because if we compare records, they don't have that much separation between them! 

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