Adults arguing about Ken Anderson

[BBTV]

This isn't real, right?  This is just pro-Bengals homer schtick.

 

Saying that "the story of the NFL can't be told without Ken Anderson" is absolutely beyond any shadow of a doubt insane.  That's not to say anything bad of him, but that statement is so absurd that it's hard for me to believe that anyone is saying it in sincerity and not as a joke.

 

And I'm old enough to have been watching in the mid '80s (granted, after Anderson) and have never heard anyone speak of him. The story of the NFL has been told 1,000 times without him.

[Sport]

Just now, Cujo said:

 

Ken Anderson made Montana AND Walsh? That's unbelievable! Tell me more

 

I've made my argument and the history's all there for you to read. His era's comps are almost exclusively in the Hall of Fame, he's got better stats than a lot of them, and he was the prototype west coast QB before it was even called that. I've made my point, but if you wanna keep being a tit about Ken Anderson and the Hall of Fame that's up to you. 

 

 

Just now, BBTV said:

This isn't real, right?  This is just pro-Bengals homer schtick.

 

Saying that the story of the NFL can't be told without Ken Anderson is absolutely beyond any shadow of a doubt insane.  That's not to say anything bad of him, but that statement is so absurd that it's hard for me to believe that anyone is saying it in sincerity and not as a joke.

 

It was couched in sound reason, which you keep ignoring. I'll post it a third time so you can read it again. 

 

His case is his numbers are comparable or better than a lot of guys who are already in the hall of fame and he played most of his career in a defensive era and still has high completion percentages, yards, and yards per attempt. He won an MVP, Four times best passer rating, one of the best completion percentage of the era. He has objectively better stats than many QBs in the hall of fame including Terry Bradshaw. He has basically the same number of passing yards as Troy Aikman with fewer attempts. If Dan Fouts is the bar he's right there with Dan Fouts, who never won an MVP or played in a Super Bowl himself. If Ken Stabler's the bar he's way better than Ken Stabler. From the perspective of the story of football, you can't tell it without him - He was the guinea pig for the West Coast offense before it was called that. His numbers appear modern, but he played in the 70's when it was legal for DBs to murder wide receivers. There's no Joe Montana if Ken Anderson doesn't do it for ten years first. 

 

The reasons he's not in is the "FAME" part of Hall of Fame, which brings us back to how the Bengals don't celebrate their past great players, and that he didn't win a Super Bowl, which isn't a prerequisite to the Hall. He's got a really good Hall-of-Fame case and isn't even that hard to make. 

 

 

[BBTV]

If Ken Anderson's mom had an abortion, Joe Montana would still have been Joe Montana.  This is ridiculous.

[Cujo]

1 minute ago, Sport said:

I've made my argument and the history's all there for you to read. His era's comps are almost exclusively in the Hall of Fame, he's got better stats than a lot of them, and he was the prototype west coast QB before it was even called that. I've made my point, but if you wanna keep being a tit about Ken Anderson and the Hall of Fame that's up to you.

 

It was couched in sound reason, which you keep ignoring. I'll post it a third time so you can read it again. 

 

His case is his numbers are comparable or better than a lot of guys who are already in the hall of fame and he played most of his career in a defensive era and still has high completion percentages, yards, and yards per attempt. He won an MVP, Four times best passer rating, one of the best completion percentage of the era. He has objectively better stats than many QBs in the hall of fame including Terry Bradshaw. He has basically the same number of passing yards as Troy Aikman with fewer attempts. If Dan Fouts is the bar he's right there with Dan Fouts, who never won an MVP or played in a Super Bowl himself. If Ken Stabler's the bar he's way better than Ken Stabler. From the perspective of the story of football, you can't tell it without him - He was the guinea pig for the West Coast offense before it was called that. His numbers appear modern, but he played in the 70's when it was legal for DBs to murder wide receivers. There's no Joe Montana if Ken Anderson doesn't do it for ten years first. 

 

The reasons he's not in is the "FAME" part of Hall of Fame, which brings us back to how the Bengals don't celebrate their past great players, and that he didn't win a Super Bowl, which isn't a prerequisite to the Hall. He's got a really good Hall-of-Fame case and isn't even that hard to make.

 

You've convinced me. Ken "Montana's Daddy" Anderson is without a shadow of a doubt a high-tier member of the Paul Brown Ring Of Fame, next to the likes of Ickey Woods and Terrell Owens

[oldschoolvikings]

Just because everyone seems to be ignoring my brilliant "Ken Anderson's facemask belongs in the Hall of Fame argument, I'll leave you with this picture...

 

 

 

Awaiting the call from Canton...

[Cujo]

@oldschoolvikings Surprising you'd sign off on a facemask that isn't grey or from the 1940s

[BBTV]

Can't deny... that's a real man's facemask.

[Sport]

2 minutes ago, BBTV said:

If Ken Anderson's mom had an abortion, Joe Montana would still have been Joe Montana.  This is ridiculous.

 

I need to go to sleep.  All I was saying is he has a spot in NFL history. He proved the offense everyone still uses can work. That offense became the motor for the dynasty of the 80's. Find the lie. 

 

1 minute ago, Cujo said:

 

You've convinced me. Ken "Montana's Daddy" Anderson is without a shadow of a doubt a high-tier member of the Paul Brown Ring Of Fame, next to the likes of Ickey Woods and Terrell Owens

 

Ickey Woods probably won't get into the Bengals ring of honor because his career was too short. Ken Anderson has a good shot at an eventual veterans committee admittance to the actual Hall of Fame because, yes, he has the stats. Ken Riley, god rest his soul and the fifth most interceptions in NFL history should get in too. 

[Cujo]

4 minutes ago, Sport said:

He proved the offense everyone still uses can work. That offense became the motor for the dynasty of the 80's. Find the lie. 

 

Um, so, 100% of that credit actually goes to Bill Walsh.

 

  

4 minutes ago, Sport said:

Ken Riley, god rest his soul and the fifth most interceptions in NFL history should get in too

 

Another guy i've barely heard of

[Sport]

1 minute ago, Cujo said:

 

Um, so, 100% of that credit actually goes to Bill Walsh.

 

 

100%? He still had to play the part, just as Joe Montana had to play the part.

 

Just put Ken Anderson in. It literally hurts nobody. 

 

1 minute ago, Cujo said:

 

Another guy i've barely herd of

 

Which brings us back to the Bengals and the poor job they've done promoting their past greats to hall of fame voters. He has the fifth most interceptions in NFL history, he's tied with Charles Woodson. He had 8 in his 13th season in the league. There's no argument against him other than he fell through the cracks. 

[Cujo]

1 minute ago, Sport said:

100%? He still had to play the part, just as Joe Montana had to play the part.

 

Just put Ken Anderson in. It literally hurts nobody. 

 

You're literally saying "Ken Anderson wins four Super Bowls if he's on the 49ers", which is one of the more ridiculous things I think I've ever heard

[Sport]

Just now, Cujo said:

 

You're literally saying "Ken Anderson wins four Super Bowls if he's on the 49ers", which is one of the more ridiculous things I think I've ever heard

 

Go find where I said that. I literally did not say that ever. Do you know what the word "literally" means?

[Cujo]

Just now, Sport said:

Go find where I said that. I literally did not say that ever. Do you know what the word "literally" means?

 

You're saying Ken Anderson could've done what Montana did -- which is so unbelievably wrong.

 

I can see why, as a Bengals fan, you refuse to give Joe proper credit since won half of his rings vs Cincy. It's as if you feel robbed and still lose sleep over those games.

[Sport]

Just now, Cujo said:

 

You're saying Ken Anderson could've done what Montana did -- which is so unbelievably wrong.

 

At no point did I make such a claim. That's not even close to the point I was making. Literally or figuratively. I won't edit the transcript. You can go back and read it and tell me where I said that.

 

Just now, Cujo said:

I can see why, as a Bengals fan, you refuse to give Joe proper credit since won half of his rings vs Cincy. It's as if you feel robbed and still lose sleep over those games.

 

That's LITERALLLY got nothing to do with it. I'm saying that Ken Anderson has a spot in NFL history because of his work in the offense that ultimately led to the 49ers of the 80's. There's an historical thru-line. Find the lie. 

[See Red]

9 minutes ago, Cujo said:

 

You're saying Ken Anderson could've done what Montana did -- which is so unbelievably wrong.

 

I can see why, as a Bengals fan, you refuse to give Joe proper credit since won half of his rings vs Cincy. It's as if you feel robbed and still lose sleep over those games.

 

Well, Anderson was retired for the 3rd and 4th 49ers Super Bowls.

 

But considering Anderson won the MVP in '81 when the Bengals lost to the 49ers in the Super Bowl, it's not unreasonable to think the 49ers could have won the 1981 Super Bowl with Ken Anderson instead of Joe Montana, no?

[Survival79]

How many Hall of Famers have had their numbers reissued three times following their retirement?

 

[Gothamite]

1 hour ago, Sport said:

Joe Montana isn't JOE MONTANA without Ken Anderson leading the way so yeah I said what I said. It was also couched in sound reason, which you cut out. I'll repost so you can read it again.

 

Simply copying and pasting your original lengthy reply probably isn’t going to win any converts on the second reading. 
 

gods know, I love the sound of my own prose too, but sometimes you have to be willing to let your darlings get buried on an earlier page.

 

 

[Cujo]

7 minutes ago, Survival79 said:

How many Hall of Famers have had their numbers reissued three times following their retirement?

 

 

Well, he's not a HOFer soooo..

[Sport]

25 minutes ago, Survival79 said:

How many Hall of Famers have had their numbers reissued three times following their retirement?

 

 

Because it's football and some teams don't take numbers out of circulation, probably a lot? Anthony Munoz's number hasn't been re-issued and he's actually in the hall of fame so clearly that's the franchise's standard operating procedure. If justice had been served presumably Ken Anderson's would've been taken out of circulation as well. 

 

But what started this whole thing is the Bengals finally created a ring of honor like every other team has. Remains to be seen how they'll handle the numbers, but Anderson is likely in the first class. If they decide to retire every number in the ring of honor then they won't issue it anymore. I don't think it says anything about his accomplishments that they let Andy Dalton wear it for ten years. 

 

17 minutes ago, Gothamite said:

 

Simply copying and pasting your original lengthy reply probably isn’t going to win any converts on the second reading. 
 

gods know, I love the sound of my own prose too, but sometimes you have to be willing to let your darlings get buried on an earlier page.

 

 

If you ignore every other valid point only to remove one item and argue it out of context in bad-faith, then my response will be to repost the entire thing again for the effect. I don't expect anyone to actually read it again. 

[See Red]

19 minutes ago, Survival79 said:

How many Hall of Famers have had their numbers reissued three times following their retirement?

 

 

I mean, a significant part of the man's argument is that the Bengals have failed their could-be Hall of Famers, so I don't think this is a very strong argument.

 

And looking into that quickly, the Bengals only issued #14 after Anderson began coaching for the Steelers.  Neil O'Donnell wore #14 everywhere BUT Cincinnati and Andy Dalton only wore the number with Anderson's permission.