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USFL returns in 2022 on Fox??


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12 minutes ago, Red Comet said:

And somehow looking at this operation, Fly By Night is the phrase I can best think of. And the song. 

 

I'll happily take any and every opportunity to crank up this Rush classic.

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Honestly, if the founders of this new USFL, the XFL, the AAF, and the new XFL ownership would all just agree on a league, pool their money and run one league we could actually have something viable for more than 1 season, but these endeavors are always seriously undercapitalized and the owners never seem to understand that it will take at least 5 years of losing $100M each before it catches on and starts getting decent tv and sponsorship money. 

 

But, that said, if the USFL were to come back, i would recommend they go with 10 - 12 teams, not 8, and use either stadiums under 40k or cities that we know will embrace a non-NFL option.  That means moving some teams to allow for the nicknames to live on.  My picks would be:

 

EAST  

FEDERALS--Washington DC (Audi Stadium)

GENERALS--New Jersey/NYC( Red Bull Arena,Princeton or Rutgers, not the Meadowlands)

RENEGADES--Orlando (Camping World Stadium)

BULLS--Carolina (Duke/UNC/NCState Stadium)

 

CENTRAL

BREAKERS--New Orleans (New Tulane stadium)

STALLIONS--Birmingham (New UAB stadium)

SHOWBOATS--Memphis (Liberty Bowl)

BLITZ--St. Louis (new STL FC stadium)

 

WEST\

OUTLAWS--San Diego (New SDSU Stadium)

GUNSLINGERS--San Antonio (AlamoDome)

STARS--Seattle (UW Stadium)

INVADERS--Bay Area (SJSU Stadium) or Sacramento (Sac St. Stadium)

 

That leaves the Bandits, Maulers, Gamblers, Express, Panthers and Wranglers for possible expansion.  

 

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One of the key things that led to early "success" of  the USFL as a spring/summer league was their placement of teams not just in non-NFL cities at the time (Phoenix, Birmingham, Jacksonville, Memphis, San Antonio, Tulsa, even Oakland; and for the last year relocations to Orlando, Baltimore and Portland) but also their placement of teams in NFL cities WITHOUT MLB teams, whose season they almost overlapped: (Washington, Denver, Tampa Bay, New Orleans).  It was "something to do" at that time in those places, and support was pretty strong in three of those 4 (Washington being the outlier, but they sucked terribly on the field and that didn't help).

With expansion and relocation in sports over the last 35 years, that particular situation has changed tremendously.   IMHO, Tampa Bay, Washington, Denver, Baltimore, and Phoenix are definite no-gos.

 

Back in those days before the explosion of cable options and now internet streaming,  you also wanted to get "major (TV) markets" which is why both the WFL and USFL had franchises in not only the really big markets (L.A., NY/NJ, Chicago) but also Philadelphia, Detroit, and Houston (note: the WFL originally tried and failed to get major market franchises in Boston and Washington, but the USFL did).   Today, having teams in those non-"Big Three" markets doesn't make as much financial sense as it did in the 70s and 80s. 

 

So what are we left with for possible team locations?  NFL formers and the usual list of NFL wanna-bees/maybes:

  • Oakland
  • San Diego
  • St. Louis
  • Memphis
  • Birmingham
  • San Antonio

Maybe some other big-league US cities without MLB baseball or MLS soccer in the summer:

  • Raleigh-Durham
  • Sacramento
  • New Orleans
  • Oklahoma City
  • Jacksonville

Maybe a couple of other wild cards:

  • Louisville
  • Virginia/Tidewater

 

That's about all I see, along with MAYBE a ubiquitous NY/NJ franchise.  And that's not even getting into stadium availability issues, though  WideRight did a pretty good analysis of that above.

 

Speaking of that guy:

56 minutes ago, WideRight said:

......

BULLS--Carolina (Duke/UNC/NCState Stadium)

 

OUTLAWS--San Diego (New SDSU Stadium)

 

STARS--Seattle (UW Stadium)

 

That leaves the Bandits, Maulers, Gamblers, Express, Panthers and Wranglers for possible expansion.  

 

Bulls anywhere in the Raleigh-Durham region is too close to the AAA Durham Bulls.  Similarly, you can't have the Carolina Panthers in there, either.   Would be great to use the old Michigan Panthers livery and logos and call them the Carolina Cougars, though (slight nod to the old ABA). 

Outlaws seems way out of place in San Diego; not so much a wild west town and great fit like Arizona and Oklahoma were.   Maybe Express, but change the LA speed mark logo to "SD" (hey, they did a similar treatment for the Atlanta/Calgary Flames and it worked well for the last 40 years or so)

 

Why is Seattle  even in the conversation as a franchise  site? 

 

 

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41 minutes ago, B-Rich said:

 

 

Why is Seattle  even in the conversation as a franchise  site? 

 

 

Only because the XFL's Seattle team drew very well, so there may simply be a good portion of the Seattle fanbase who are Seahawk fans but don't care about the Mariners.   The AAF was predicated on the fact that a large number of people polled basically say they follow football and no other sport (I follow football and soccer, but not baseball, NBA or NHL, so I likely fit in this group) and that group may be large enough to support a USFL in areas where it is a dominant feeling. 

 

I agree, avoiding MLB cities may be as important as avoiding NFL cities, perhaps more, but there may be some outliers where spring football can draw well.  If we look at the AAF and XFL 2.0, I think we saw this in places like Seattle, San Diego, DC, Houston, and St. Louis.  

 

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I could imagine a 12 team USFL where they pick 4-6 big population cities just to make the TV network happy and then go for underrepresented cities that don't have MLB, NHL, NBA to worry about in the spring.  Let me try to put together a possible alignment here for a 12-team league.

 

4 teams that are Top 10 MSA in the country, to keep the TV partner happy

4 teams that have either lost an NFL team or have one but no MLB so they are primed for football in the spring

4 underrepresented markets that have neither MLB or NFL but decent stadiums.

Build the league in pairs of cities so that each team has a natural rival

 

EAST

New Jersey (Big Market)--Plays in either Red Bull Arena or at Rutgers.  Rival for Philly.  Original USFL team. 

Philadelphia (Big Market)--Plays at Franklin Field.  Rival for New Jersey.   Original USFL team.

Columbus (No MLB/NFL)-- Plays at Crew Stadium.  Rival for Louisville.

Louisville (No NFL/MLB)-- Plays at U. of Louisville. Rival for Columbus.

 

CENTRAL

Chicago (Big Market)-- Plays at SeatGeek Stadium.  Rival for St, Louis.  Original USFL team.

St. Louis (Lost NFL Team)-- Plays at new STL FC Stadium.  Rival for Chicago

New Orleans (No MLB)-- Plays at Tulane Stadium.  Rival for Birmingham.  Original USFL team. 

Birmingham (No NFL/MLB)-- Plays at new UAB Stadium.  Rival for New Orleans.  Original USFL team. 

 

WEST
Bay Area (Big Market)-- Plays at San Jose State or in Oakland.  Rival for San Diego.  Original USFL team. 

San Diego (Lost NFL Team)--Plays at new SDSU Stadium.  Rival for Bay Area

San Antonio (No NFL/MLB)-- Plays at AlamoDome.  Rival for Austin.  Original USFL team. 

Austin (No NFL/MLB)--Plays at new soccer stadium.  Rival for San Antonio

 

You still have room to expand eventually to locations like Orlando, Memphis, Salt Lake, Portland, or other large cities if this thing catches on. 

 

You also have 7 original USFL locations to revive the names, then you could decide if you want to use any of the other team names for the 5 new cities.  

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, WideRight said:
29 minutes ago, WideRight said:

Only because the XFL's Seattle team drew very well, so there may simply be a good portion of the Seattle fanbase who are Seahawk fans but don't care about the Mariners.   The AAF was predicated on the fact that a large number of people polled basically say they follow football and no other sport (I follow football and soccer, but not baseball, NBA or NHL, so I likely fit in this group) and that group may be large enough to support a USFL in areas where it is a dominant feeling. 

 

I agree, avoiding MLB cities may be as important as avoiding NFL cities, perhaps more, but there may be some outliers where spring football can draw well.  If we look at the AAF and XFL 2.0, I think we saw this in places like Seattle, San Diego, DC, Houston, and St. Louis.  

 

 

 

Yeah I think with Seattle it's just a case of them being a split fanbase type thing where it's Mariners fans and Seahawks fans with less overlap, same likely in Houston. San Diego and St. Louis were obvious "eff yous" to the NFL for cities recently screwed out of their football teams and no real replacement to root for. San Diego now has the added benefit of a beautiful new stadium to use as a draw as well replacing the decaying SDCCU Stadium. DC I've got no explanation for. 

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A new tenant for the Historic Crew Stadium would be good, but you're dealing with bleacher seating still.  I don't see them placing a football team in the new stadium though, at least not immediately. 

 

8 minutes ago, WideRight said:

I could imagine a 12 team USFL where they pick 4-6 big population cities just to make the TV network happy and then go for underrepresented cities that don't have MLB, NHL, NBA to worry about in the spring.  Let me try to put together a possible alignment here for a 12-team league.

 

EAST

New Jersey (Big Market)--Plays in either Red Bull Arena or at Rutgers.  Rival for Philly.  Original USFL team. 

Philadelphia (Big Market)--Plays at Franklin Field.  Rival for New Jersey.   Original USFL team.

1-Columbus (No MLB/NFL)-- Plays at Crew Stadium.  Rival for Louisville.

Louisville (No NFL/MLB)-- Plays at U. of Louisville. Rival for Columbus.

 

CENTRAL

Chicago (Big Market)-- Plays at SeatGeek Stadium.  Rival for St, Louis.  Original USFL team.

St. Louis (Lost NFL Team)-- Plays at new STL FC Stadium.  Rival for Chicago

New Orleans (No MLB)-- Plays at Tulane Stadium.  Rival for Birmingham.  Original USFL team. 

Birmingham (No NFL/MLB)-- Plays at new UAB Stadium.  Rival for New Orleans.  Original USFL team. 

 

WEST
Bay Area (Big Market)-- Plays at San Jose State or in Oakland.  Rival for San Diego.  Original USFL team. 

2-San Diego (Lost NFL Team)--Plays at new SDSU Stadium.  Rival for Bay Area

San Antonio (No NFL/MLB)-- Plays at AlamoDome.  Rival for Austin.  Original USFL team. 

1-Austin (No NFL/MLB)--Plays at new soccer stadium.  Rival for San Antonio

1-A new tenant for the Historic Crew Stadium would be good, but you're dealing with bleacher seating still.  I don't see them placing a football team in the new stadium though, at least not immediately.  For Austin, I think unless the city leans on them, they'll be in the same boat as Columbus and New Crew Stadium. 

Columbus Crew SC welcomes fans back to MAPFRE Stadium | 10tv.com

 

2- When is that stadium scheduled to open in 2022? Late summer or the start of the year? That might eliminate San Diego from being selected.

 

Another issue for those stadiums on college campuses is their turf logos being stitched in rather than painted. 

Experiences from Salt Lake Stallions First Home Game in Utah Football  History - Block U

No one wants to see this when the colors of the team taking the field clash with the owners of the stadium. 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, bosrs1 said:

 

Yeah I think with Seattle it's just a case of them being a split fanbase type thing where it's Mariners fans and Seahawks fans with less overlap, same likely in Houston. San Diego and St. Louis were obvious "eff yous" to the NFL for cities recently screwed out of their football teams and no real replacement to root for. San Diego now has the added benefit of a beautiful new stadium to use as a draw as well replacing the decaying SDCCU Stadium. DC I've got no explanation for. 

The Book of Daniel

Because they aren't giving money to this guy.

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7 hours ago, Red Comet said:

Nostalgia pandering has gotten way out of control. Why can’t people just create new things instead of just rebooting the same thing over and over again?

 

Ask the people who thought it was a good idea to create Star Trek: Picard...

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1 hour ago, tBBP said:
8 hours ago, Red Comet said:

Nostalgia pandering has gotten way out of control. Why can’t people just create new things instead of just rebooting the same thing over and over again?

 

Ask the people who thought it was a good idea to create Star Trek: Picard...

 

???

 

That show was tremendous — well-written and amazingly well-acted.  There is every reason to be excited about the second season.  If this new USFL is one-tenth as good a revival of that entity as Picard was of that entity, then it will be a thrilling league.

On the more general point: I object to the dismissive reference to "nostalgia pandering".   The XFL and the NASL proved that reviving an older sporting entity can be done right.  Even the Cosmos, formerly thought to be, as the documentary title said, "once in a lifetime", had a good second run in the new NASL before the pandemic; and they are still holding on, ready to emerge again when things get back to normal.  Another great team name from the original NASL, the Tampa Bay Rowdies, was successfully restarted in the new NASL and then moved on to the USL.  When the Atlantic League began, Rick Cerone revived the historic minor-league name Newark Bears, and had a pretty good run there for a while.  (I was a big fan, both of Rick Cerone and of the Bears.)


In the culture in general, we have seen the brilliant revival of Will and Grace, which was a triumph on all levels, and made the point that a revival of a show can be just as great as the original version.  The Muppets saw a revival which was excellent (as I can attest, having seen and enjoyed every episode), but which was inexplicably low-rated and so lasted only one season.  The revivals of Friends and Mad About You seems to be well received by the shows' fans (sets which do not include me). 

The point is that many, many cultural entities merit being revivied.  So please get out of the appalling anti-artistic mindset of culture as disposable.  I don't know whether the new USFL will succeed; if it is undercaptialised, then it will not.  But we mustn't begrudge them the attempt; and we should all enthusiastically welcome the return of the array of great logos and names that are associated with that league.  

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15 hours ago, Ferdinand Cesarano said:

The XFL and the NASL proved that reviving an older sporting entity can be done right.

 

The XFL and its revival combined for less than two seasons of football. I'm willing to say it could have worked the second time around, but y'know, global pandemic and all that. So maybe not their fault, who knows how that would have worked out.

 

The NASL though? That league died years ago, before the pandemic, having achieved the heights of being roughly as relevant as the USL. Is that a revival done right?

 

More importantly, does the USFL brand have enough cachet to really matter at this point? The league was birthed and killed before I was born and I'm in my 30's. I know about the USFL because I'm a nerd that's read all about it and heard stories from my dad of his time going to Showboats games. I even took all of his USFL pennants and hung them up in my room when I was younger. But is it a name that football fans my age and younger actually care about?

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Didn't  a banned member here boast about buying a lot of USFL IP and maybe even the website name?  I think most of you know who I'm referring to.

 

While we're on the nostalgia-reboot kick, CAN I PLEASE GET A SECOND SEASON OF FIREFLY??? 

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21 minutes ago, BBTV said:

Didn't  a banned member here boast about buying a lot of USFL IP and maybe even the website name?  I think most of you know who I'm referring to.

He's got dot info.

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Quote

Did the new spring football league get permission to use the USFL name?

A former executive of the defunct league said it still has the rights to its name and logos 35 years after it played its last down.

 

 

Quote

The new USFL is using the old USFL’s logo and claims to have retained the rights to key original team names, including the Philadelphia Stars. The new USFL already has created a website, which boasts that USFL merchandise soon will be available for sale even though the eight cities in which it plans to play still haven’t been identified.

But Ehrhart, who was the USFL’s executive director in its final season and still has the $3 check the league received in 1986 after “winning” its antitrust suit against the NFL, would love to know where Woods and Fox claim to have gotten the rights to the USFL name and logo and those of the original teams.

 
 

“I was surprised when I heard about it this morning,” said Ehrhart, a longtime Memphis attorney and the executive director of the Auto Zone Liberty Bowl. “I want to dig into it and see who they’re claiming they acquired these rights [to the name] from. Because it didn’t come from any legitimate source.

 

 

Quote

“My guess is there’s some knucklehead out there who claimed he had registered the name and had the rights to it. We’re not being antagonistic. But if they want to do this, they should do it the right way and talk to the actual people, not some guy who sent in an internet registration or something like that.”

 

 

https://www.inquirer.com/eagles/usfl-fox-philadelphia-stars-spring-20210603.html

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