2021 NFL Season - Adults Arguing About Matt Stafford

[infrared41]

1 hour ago, tBBP said:

All this...which makes what Dan Marino pulled off during his career even more amazing. And unless you paid attention to those teams, most couldn't name one WR he threw to, especially in the '80s/early 90s. (Some of us know the Marks Brothers...but good luck with any beyond that). Could you imagine Marino with any of Randy Moss, Megatron, Larry Fitzgerald, or any semblance of a running game?? 

 

Exactly. We all remember the "Marks Brothers", but what about the immortal Jim Jensen? (Jensen was basically the prototype for Taysom Hill) Marino's RBs were a bunch of guys named Tony Nathan and Woody Bennett. At least Elway had Sammy Winder and Steve Sewell in the backfield and Montana had guys like Roger Craig and Tom Rathman to go along with Rice and Taylor. Damn, those Niners teams were stacked.

[Indigo]

The problem with Stafford is that HOF QB’s don’t deal with losing the way he did. HOF QB’s do one of three things:

A ) elevate the play of his teammates [Aaron Rodgers]

B ) leave a situation where they can’t win anymore [Peyton Manning]

C) all of the above [Tom Brady]
 

Stafford did none of those things. He never complained about losing, never hinted at leaving, he just stood pat and padded his stats. He may have been a talented QB, but he’s missing that competitive itch that most Hall-ers have.

[GFB]

 

6 hours ago, BBTV said:

As for the Romo/Big Ben tier, lol - how is there any universe in which Romo and Big Ben are in the same tier?  A 2-time SB champion that played for nearly 20 years and was nearly-impossible to bring down vs a guy who didn't play half that long and choked every time he made the playoffs.  Romo had a good career, but he's not in the same tier as Ben.

 

In my opinion, Ben's the most overrated QB of this century.  He was carried by an all time great defense in 2005 (who can forget his QB Rating of 22.6 in Super Bowl XL or that his best play was the tackle of of Nick Harper after the Bettis goal line fumble) and then he took full advantage of the Brady ACL year in 2008 and had a nice run to the Super Bowl.

 

But since the 2008 Super Bowl, he's been incredibly average.  He lucked his way into another Super Bowl in 2010 by avoiding Brady/Manning in the playoffs, having the AFC gauntlet of home games against the Flacco/Ravens and the Sanchez/Jets before being dispelled by Aaron Rodgers and the Packers in the Super Bowl. Big Ben is/was 1-5 in the playoffs vs HOF-caliber QBs (Brady/Manning/Rodgers/Mahomes).

 

Here's a list of the QBs that the Steelers have lost playoff games with Roethlisberger at the helm:

• David Garrard
• Tim Tebow
• Joe Flacco
• Blake Bortles
• Baker Mayfield

And here's the full list of opposing QBs that the Roethlisberger-Steelers have beat in the playoffs since 2008: 

• Joe Flacco
• Mark Sanchez
• A.J. McCarron
• Matt Moore
• Alex Smith

Big Ben was obviously a very good quarterback, but I think if you put another very good quarterback (the Romo / Stafford / McNabb, Matt Ryan / Philip Rivers tier) in Big Ben's situation, with the same coaching/talent (Antonio Brown, Santonio Holmes, Hines Ward, Leveon Bell and the Polamalu/Harrison defense) and in that division, I think you're probably getting the same results, if not better...  

 

The truth is that Roethlisberger has done just as much stat-padding with a lack of winning over the last 15 years as Romo/McNabb/Stafford/Rivers.

 

6 hours ago, BBTV said:

If Tony Romo gets in, then Donovan McNabb needs to get in (and he shouldn't either.)  McNabb had 10x the career that Tony Romo had.  And if they get in, then Infrared41, IceCap, me, you, and that troll that doesn't know what things mean and can't argue a point should all get in.

 

I don't think Romo should get in (though he likely will) and I agree that McNabb would rank higher for me in a vacuum... but there's a different argument between what the HOF bar should be and what the bar actually is.  I'm also ok with letting a higher number of QBs into the Hall of Fame in this era because of the premium on the position and because the level of play is so much higher now than ever before (yes the QBs have more protection now and the rules have shifted in favor of the offense, but defenses weren't running the coverage schemes or had the athletes that modern defenses do).

 

Lastly, I think Stafford is looked at in a different light if he didn't share a division with (arguably) the most-talented QB of all time in his prime. His three playoff games before this season were wild card games at the Brees/Saints, Romo/Cowboys, and Wilson Seahawks, all losses. If the Packers didn't have the NFC North in a vice grip similar to how the AFC East was held by the Pats or the AFC South by the Colts in the 00s and Stafford was able to get a couple of the Big Ben/Steelers wildcard layups, maybe his perception is a little different and he gets a few more Pro Bowl nods or All Pro consideration. But it's difficult to get those when you're (A) on a lesser team (B) not winning division titles/playoff games and (C) you have QBs like Rodgers/Brees/Wilson regularly cycling through those awards with other guys like Ryan/Romo/McNabb/Newton filling in when they have career years. 

 

 

 

[GFB]

1 hour ago, LA Fakers+ LA Snippers said:

The problem with Stafford is that HOF QB’s don’t deal with losing the way he did. HOF QB’s do one of three things:

A ) elevate the play of his teammates [Aaron Rodgers]

B ) leave a situation where they can’t win anymore [Peyton Manning]

C) all of the above [Tom Brady]
 

Stafford did none of those things. He never complained about losing, never hinted at leaving, he just stood pat and padded his stats. He may have been a talented QB, but he’s missing that competitive itch that most Hall-ers have.

 

Stafford asked for a trade to leave a bad situation and won the Super Bowl... If that's not (B), I don't know what is.  He also may have asked for a trade earlier had his wife not needed/recovered from brain surgery over the last few seasons.

[Indigo]

35 minutes ago, GFB said:

 

Stafford asked for a trade to leave a bad situation and won the Super Bowl... If that's not (B), I don't know what is.  He also may have asked for a trade earlier had his wife not needed/recovered from brain surgery over the last few seasons.

Turns out you’re right. 
https://www.nfl.com/news/matthew-stafford-on-trade-to-rams-i-asked-to-go-to-a-team-that-was-ready-to-win-

I had no idea Stafford asked for the trade.
 

But he’s 33 years old, and his wife had surgery in 2019. He had been in Detroit for eleven years (drafted in 2008) at that point, and they went 0-2 in the playoffs. How much longer was it going to take? If his wife doesn’t have brain surgery, I doubt he’s in LA right now. He was in no rush to leave Detroit until this year. We heard nothing about him wanting to leave until he left.

[See Red]

  

9 hours ago, FiddySicks said:

Lol, what? 

 

Roethlisberger has marginally better stats despite having had considerably more talent around him.  Swap the two and the fortunes of neither the Lions nor the Steelers changes much.  Stafford didn't get Le'Veon Bell... he got Joique Bell.  And before "but Calvin Johnson!" -- they played together five full seasons, three of which were Stafford's worst.  The line still sucked, they still couldn't run, and had Scott freakin' Linehan at OC.  And Ben has hardly lacked talent at WR in his career.

 

I don't think Stafford is a Hall of Famer if he were to retire today or really even all that close but some of ya'll are acting like he's Jon Kitna or something.  He spent almost the entirety of his career with a franchise that couldn't provide him a competent defense, capable pass protection, or a running game to lean on and the first year he got those things he won a Super Bowl.

[GFB]

19 minutes ago, LA Fakers+ LA Snippers said:

But he’s 33 years old, and his wife had surgery in 2019. He had been in Detroit for eleven years (drafted in 2008) at that point, and they went 0-2 in the playoffs. How much longer was it going to take? If his wife doesn’t have brain surgery, I doubt he’s in LA right now. He was in no rush to leave Detroit until this year. We heard nothing about him wanting to leave until he left.

Kelly was pregnant and gave birth to their third child in 2018, was diagnosed with brain cancer in 2019 and had a lengthy recovery period (where she was treated in the Metro Detroit area), and then they had their fourth and final child in 2020. It's no coincidence that the trade request came after their family situation finally settled down and the Lions were about to embark on a full-blown rebuild after firing the GM and coach that offseason. 

 

Stafford also nixed a potential trade to Carolina because they weren't in a position to win,

 

And believe it or not, not everyone is in a rush to leave Detroit, even when they should: see Barry/Calvin. 

 

 

 

[infrared41]

3 hours ago, dont care said:

If Romo gets in it will be because he’s a media darling and not anything he did on the field.

 

As a media person is the only way Romo gets in. Does the football HOF even do the broadcaster thing or is that just a baseball deal?

[BBTV]

Just saw on a PTI replay from earlier today Michael Wilpon going off about Matt Stafford”s poor HOF qualifications and suggesting that Ken Anderson is way more deserving and should go in before anyone mentions stafford”s name. 

[infrared41]

1 hour ago, BBTV said:

Just saw on a PTI replay from earlier today Michael Wilpon going off about Matt Stafford”s poor HOF qualifications and suggesting that Ken Anderson is way more deserving and should go in before anyone mentions stafford”s name. 

 

We have come full circle.

[rams80]

5 hours ago, LA Fakers+ LA Snippers said:

Stafford did none of those things. He never complained about losing, never hinted at leaving, he just stood pat and padded his stats. He may have been a talented QB, but he’s missing that competitive itch that most Hall-ers have.

 

OK, gonna go after this general sentiment here point by point and ask what Stafford could have done REALISTICALLY.

 

1. Lobby ownership/management to make the team better:  So, we're going to try to ask the Ford family to stop being the Ford family for a little bit, which strikes me as a rather futile gesture because it's impossible to break a track record as long as theirs.

2. Convince Free Agents to come over: (Glances at Ford Family) Show of hands. Who wants to take a relative pay cut to live in Detroit in a likely Quixotic attempt to build a winner.

3a. Demand a trade before you are even consigned to Detroit.   Dude, we like Eli now because he's the funny one and he beat the Patriots twice, but Lordy, he had talent and the Manning bloodline and he got freaking dragged for telling the Chargers to piss off.

3b. Demand a trade earlier in his career.  Yeah, um, we have a word for players who do that, it's called "malcontent" (or locker room cancer, or the real problem, or....) The Narrative does not like it when star players demand trades.

3c. Find a FA landing site as a comparatively unproven QB with a good supporting cast but cannot, for whatever reason, come by a cost-controlled QB on a rookie deal.  Brady and Manning were able to move, but the general consensus was that Manning, coming off a missed season due to injury, was basically done and everyone hates Brady anyway except for Boston and the Brady-Belichick marriage had hit its expiration date.  Stafford's kind of lucky George Allen's ghost possessed Les Snead once the Rams returned to LA so the Rams had a good supporting cast and no hope of getting a rookie QB.

 

Point is, it's easy to say he could do more, it's harder to actually successfully do more in some situations.

[IceCap]

16 hours ago, BBTV said:

He is a loser. 

I mean he just won the Super Bowl. And his team went ahead to win it on a TD pass he threw. He's no scrub.

[TrueYankee26]

How funny that the 2 teams that won home games in the Super Bowl are owned by people who own soccer teams in England (Man United and Arsenal)  and are despised in Manchester and London respectively?

[Indigo]

Similarities between the last two SB Champs: (Bucs, Rams)

1. Got rid of a young QB who seemed promise but didn't live up to the hype. (Jameis Winston, Jared Goff).
2. Got a new QB who, after 10+ years with another franchise, led his new team to a SB championship. (Tom Brady, Matthew Stafford).
3. Won the SB championship in their home stadium, despite missing the playoffs when the stadiums were selected. (Raymond James Stadium, SoFi Stadium).
4. Won the SB championship wearing white uniforms. (Bucs, Rams).
5. Won the SB while playing against a young QB with a bad O-line. (Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow).
6. Was an NFC team.
7. Won the SB in brand new uniforms. (Bucs, Rams).

 

So, theoretically, the Cardinals need to get new uniforms, trade Kyler Murray for Aaron Rodgers, and wear white in the Super Bowl, and they'll be NFL Champs. 

[BBTV]

1 hour ago, LA Fakers+ LA Snippers said:

 

1. Won the SB in brand new uniforms. (Bucs, Rams).

 

 

Technically, this was year 2 of the Rams uniform.

[BBTV]

11 hours ago, IceCap said:

He's no scrub.

 

But I saw him hanging out the side of his best friend's ride, trying to holler at me.

[IceCap]

2 hours ago, BBTV said:

 

Technically, this was year 2 of the Rams uniform.

Ah, but they won the Super Bowl in white uniforms they just debuted this past season! 

[Indigo]

15 minutes ago, IceCap said:

Ah, but they won the Super Bowl in white uniforms they just debuted this past season! 

That’s what I was talking about. Specifically the white uniform.

[SFGiants58]

14 hours ago, IceCap said:

He's no scrub.

Just wait until we play “How to Save a Life” over him failing a comeback drive.

 

 

Is spoiling this episode OK, or are there people who are sensitive about spoilers for a nearly-16 year old dramedy episode?

[LMU]

Thoughts on the Rams rally:

 

*Actually had a good sized crowd

*Politicians needs to stop thinking they're cool

*Someone needs to strangle the DJ with the air horn sound effect

*Stan not grabbing his crotch in a shoutout to St. Louis is an egregious oversight

*McVay's S-bomb went unbleeped on the local ABC station

*Stafford is hammered as hell (unclear if this will affect his Hall of Fame credentials)

*Shirtless Aaron Donald makes mortals tremble.  Also, Donald apologized for being drunk but clearly holds his liquor better than Stafford.

*McVay is really forcing the running it back issue.  Going to be a bit more awkward if he does bolt for the studio

*Von Miller is REALLY drunk

*Woods is markedly less drunk.

*The fake Halas trophy is just awkwardly taking up space on the podium

*Good on Kupp to pull rank and defer to Whit.

*Whit's shirt with dorky high school Kupp is phenomenal

*Kupp with the Mick Foley cheap pop for the Kobe reference