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2021-22 NHL Regular Season


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27 minutes ago, IceCap said:

It's been twenty five years and not a single season has been a success financially. How many millions more dollars need to be spent to justify this bull :censored:

 

I'm gonna keep saying it until people who perpetuate this nonsense listen...

 

Winnipeg is only 13% the size of Atlanta. Yeah. Winnipeg isn't even 20% of an Atlanta. And yet Winnipeg has been, from a financial standpoint, a huge upgrade over Atlanta. 

 

And for all the droning on you do about "potential growth" in Arizona...again. It's been twenty-five years. How much longer do we have to give it before that growth stops being "potential"? 

 

I ask,  but I don't expect an answer. I was saying this same thing ten years ago. And I bet if you go back to those old threads you'll find someone saying "give it ten more years." 

 

The Pittsburgh Penguins languished for nearly 20 years from their first season right up to when they drafted Mario Lemieux. They came close to relocating or folding multiple times. The Nashville Predators were considered to be a mistake by many hockey traditionalists and were nearly the Hamilton Predators.

 

The circumstances aren't the exact same in AZ, but the point is that if the right decisions are made, pretty much any market is capable of being saved.

 

Also, you need to understand that the points I'm making aren't just my personal opinions & observations. This is the way the NHL's Board of Governors thinks. They see more value in swinging for the fences and trying to grow the game in new markets, instead of just taking the safe bet that won't really pay off. Quebec City has an arena ready, and wouldn't need to worry too much about attendance, but beyond that the market doesn't offer much of what the owners are interested in. Much like Winnipeg was, Quebec is a safety net that's there in case there are no other options.

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10 minutes ago, spartacat_12 said:

Also, you need to understand that the points I'm making aren't just my personal opinions & observations.

I've got a firm grasp on what your arguments are. 

 

Don't mistake me not agreeing with you with "not getting it." I do "get it." I just don't agree with it. 

If you can make that logical leap you're off to a good start. 

 

11 minutes ago, spartacat_12 said:

Much like Winnipeg was, Quebec is a safety net that's there in case there are no other options.

Winnipeg was a hell of a safety net considering the degree to which it outperformed Atlanta. 

That's a fact, a cold, wintery, ice on the pond, everyone wearing toques the way hockey was meant to be, fact. 

 

And one you're going to have to reckon with eventually. 'cause all the blabbering about how much potential Arizona as a market has doesn't change the disaster it's been for a quarter of a decade, and you'll eventually have to accept that small-ish Canadian cities are proven capable of outdrawing mega American sunbelt markets in the NHL. 

 

Seriously. When is enough enough? Do the Coyotes have to post loses for fifty years before you get over your contrarianism? 

 

And no "relocating a team from Arizona to Quebec is Actually Racist" isn't your magical cure-all. It's pretty dumb, actually. 

 

16 minutes ago, spartacat_12 said:

The Pittsburgh Penguins languished for nearly 20 years

Jesus tap dancing Christ. There is no single team with as dire a financial record than the Arizona Coyotes. And cherry picking down years northern teams had is a bad faith argument and you know that. 

 

17 minutes ago, spartacat_12 said:

hockey traditionalists

Get over it. Being obsessively contrarian isn't healthy. Find another dragon to slay. 

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57 minutes ago, IceCap said:

Winnipeg was a hell of a safety net considering the degree to which it outperformed Atlanta. 

That's a fact, a cold, wintery, ice on the pond, everyone wearing toques the way hockey was meant to be, fact. 

 

And one you're going to have to reckon with eventually. 'cause all the blabbering about how much potential Arizona as a market has doesn't change the disaster it's been for a quarter of a decade, and you'll eventually have to accept that small-ish Canadian cities are proven capable of outdrawing mega American sunbelt markets in the NHL. 

 

And you'll eventually have to accept that despite a quarter-century of people bitching about it, the NHL doesn't care about small-ish Canadian markets. The league is well aware of how passionate Canadians are about the game, which is precisely why they aren't interested in putting more teams here. A team in Quebec City doesn't create new fans, it just puts existing fans a few hours closer to a team than they already are. 

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7 hours ago, spartacat_12 said:

It's been a hit in Vegas, so that argument doesn't carry much water. Put an arena in the right location & have a competent hockey ops department and you can turn things around.

 

I understand the desire to bring back the Nordiques, and I'm not anti-more teams in Canada, but you have to look at this from the league's perspective. Quebec City won't lose money, but there isn't really much opportunity for growth. Phoenix is a bigger media market, has a much larger base of potential corporate partners, and has a population that's more than 5 times larger.

 

Also, for a league that's trying to push the "hockey is for everyone" narrative, taking a team from a diverse market and moving them to a city that's 95% white isn't great optics.

 

Haha true that if you leave the Vegas strip, it's desert afterwards. Just saw that on Google Maps. So I'll rephrase it like this. Hockey in Arizona can't possibly be a top priority, when it comes to sports. With financial losses piling up for years and not much outpouring to "Save Our Coyotes" from fans, if this was a Canadian team or a large US market, there would be possibly 10 000+ fans with signs at arenas and on the streets to save their franchise.

 

Having a 2nd francophone team doesn't get more diverse than that. It could work with any ethnicity, if there's sufficient demand for NHL hockey. It's time to move on, whenever a team makes a habit out of bleeding money for decades.

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1 hour ago, spartacat_12 said:

A team in Quebec City doesn't create new fans, it just puts existing fans a few hours closer to a team than they already are. 

Twist ending: A team in Arizona isn't creating new fans either, statistically speaking.

 

1 hour ago, spartacat_12 said:

And you'll eventually have to accept that despite a quarter-century of people bitching about it, the NHL doesn't care about small-ish Canadian markets.

Then they're stupid, stupid businessmen.

You and yours like to present yourself as the enlightened, realistic ones in this debate but that's been blown apart. Winnipeg dunked on Atlanta when it came to being a financially successful NHL market. If the NHL "doesn't care" about that then they, and people like you, are being wilfully negligent from an economics perspective.

 

'cause guess what? It isn't 1996 anymore. We're a quarter century into this Arizona thing. Any legitimate argument you have about economic potential based on market size evaporated like an ice cube in the desert. Meanwhile? I've got a perfect case study on how "small Canadian market > large American sunbelt market" to point to.

 

You don't have anything left. Just "muh feels" about "growing the game" and some weird contrarian streak you have where you somehow decided to root against your own country getting more teams because Don Cherry annoyed you or something.

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1 hour ago, spartacat_12 said:

 

And you'll eventually have to accept that despite a quarter-century of people bitching about it, the NHL doesn't care about small-ish Canadian markets. The league is well aware of how passionate Canadians are about the game, which is precisely why they aren't interested in putting more teams here. A team in Quebec City doesn't create new fans, it just puts existing fans a few hours closer to a team than they already are. 

 

Maybe Gary Bettman cares more about how much is going into his own pockets or something than he cares about having a more healthy, financially steady franchise in Canada.

 

If Quebec is making the League money by selling out games in their building or close to it, it's difficult trying to fully grasp why they want to leave money on the table.

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I'm still annoyed. This team and its fanbase have done nothing but piss and moan for the last 20 years about not being able to build an arena in Scottsdale, and their failure would be a strike against diversity if they moved to a place that doesn't really speak English? Kiss my 95% white ass. 

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♫ oh yeah, board goes on, long after the thrill of postin' is gone ♫

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4 hours ago, spartacat_12 said:

 

And you'll eventually have to accept that despite a quarter-century of people bitching about it, the NHL doesn't care about small-ish Canadian markets. The league is well aware of how passionate Canadians are about the game, which is precisely why they aren't interested in putting more teams here. A team in Quebec City doesn't create new fans, it just puts existing fans a few hours closer to a team than they already are. 

 

b983ff3b0e9b850f4b8b32c1f2e04798.jpg

 

Unoriginal, but it works.

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8 hours ago, Digby said:

I mean once you get past, I dunno, maybe the top five or so markets in the US/Canada, maybe population alone doesn’t matter?

 

Like “Portland Oregon is good for MLS, maybe less so for NFL” is a pretty reasonable statement and not unique?

Yeah. No one's saying the Falcons would be better off in Winnipeg. Atlanta is clearly the better football market. Winnipeg is clearly the better NHL market though. 

 

The whole 90s expansion/relocation fest into the Sunbelt was a series of experiments that revolves around potential for these growing markets once hockey was established there. 

Some of them worked. Others didn't. 

 

Saying "Tampa and Dallas worked out. Arizona didn't" shouldn't be seen as a controversial opinion, an indictment of the overall process, or (lol) a knock against diversity. 

It's just a failed market. Twenty-five years should be enough to establish that. How much longer, how many more millions of dollars- both public and private- will go into this thing? At a certain point enough is enough and a quarter of a century seems like a good enough point for me. 

 

Finally- the idea that Quebec City is a backup in a last case scenario... mother :censored:er, the Coyotes are getting evicted at the end of the year (because they can't pay their rent because they don't have fans) and have no NHL-acceptable arena prospects in the area. You want a last case scenario? There you go. 

Arizona couldn't make their disinterest in the Coyotes more clear if the desert itself swallowed the team and spit the bones back out. 

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The Auston Matthews mustache era mercifully ends.  That said, he still looks like a horny Phil Kessel in a balding vampire wig.

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"You are nothing more than a small cancer on this message board. You are not entertaining, you are a complete joke."

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19 hours ago, spartacat_12 said:

 

And you'll eventually have to accept that despite a quarter-century of people bitching about it, the NHL doesn't care about small-ish Canadian markets. The league is well aware of how passionate Canadians are about the game, which is precisely why they aren't interested in putting more teams here.

That's the problem. 

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The Minnesota Wild announced a couple of days ago that longtime Captain Mikko Koivu will have his number 9 retired by the Wild. He’ll be the first (real) number retired by the Wild.


https://www.nhl.com/wild/news/koivu-jersey-retire-313/c-328296504

 

I think this is awesome! No one else represented the Wild like Koivu. I’m glad to see this is happening. Hopefully the banner will have a C on it as well! 

"And those who know Your Name put their trust in You, for You, O Lord, have not forsaken those who seek You." Psalms 9:10

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Canucks fans are getting restless; there was booing and "Fire Benning" chants at the end of their game with the Pens, and someone chucked a jersey onto the ice.

 

Of course, expecting Francesco Aquilini to do anything but whine at the media is a bit of a fool's errand...

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Busy 24 hours of firings. Green & Benning out in Vancouver, Vigneault out in Philadelphia.

 

I wonder if the Habs decide to make a coaching change now that another one of their former French speaking coaches is available again. I guess 2 since Therrien got the axe in Philly along with Vigneault.

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