2021-22 NHL Regular Season

[CS85]

7 hours ago, the admiral said:

It's really gonna be unfortunate if we have to act like Joel Quenneville is tantamount to Joe Paterno because of freaking Kyle Beach. 

It’s not apples to apples, but it’s still damning.  I’m surprised you’re so dismissive about this mess. 

[IceCap]

1 hour ago, the admiral said:

It's really gonna be unfortunate if we have to act like Joel Quenneville is tantamount to Joe Paterno because of freaking Kyle Beach. 

He wouldn't have been if he'd had a shred of compassion and stood up for freaking Kyle Beach.

 

I get that it sucks when it's your team, but pretending that the team covered up sexual assault to protect itself and allowed the sexual predator a means to molest children is Actually Not A Big Deal is a really bad position to have.

 

I'm not saying you have to forsake the team or anything. Let the guilty parties get run out of the league and go from there. Being dismissive, however, isn't the answer.

[Chromatic]

1 hour ago, the admiral said:

It's really gonna be unfortunate if we have to act like Joel Quenneville is tantamount to Joe Paterno because of freaking Kyle Beach. 

Yes, sexual assault on a player being covered up by an original 6 franchise isn't a big deal because he's a bust and the Blackhawks aren't a "meme team".

 

 Quite frankly a member of the Habs should be allowed to rape 2 people max a year and a member of the Blue Jackets should have to take the fall for it.

[OnWis97]

It really is depressing to think about how common it is for multiple adults to look the other way on sexual assault for the sake of an organization.

[Ridleylash]

14 minutes ago, OnWis97 said:

It really is depressing to think about how common it is for multiple adults to look the other way on sexual assault for the sake of an organization.

It's because so many people invest so heavily in Brand Loyalty(tm) where you cheer for and support a team no matter what happens. You see it happening in other spheres, too.

[IceCap]

1 hour ago, Ridleylash said:

It's because so many people invest so heavily in Brand Loyalty(tm) where you cheer for and support a team no matter what happens. You see it happening in other spheres, too.

It's not brand loyalty. It's the fetishization of sports above all else in society.

 

Why did Penn State enable a child predator for forty years? Why did the Blackhawks sweep sexual abuse under the rug? Because our society is broken and we elevate sports to a level above what it should be. And that leads to coaches and executives in sports believing that "the organization" and "culture" needs to be protected above all else. 
Even in the face of sexual assault. 

[CS85]

I’m guessing it comes from a place of tiresome moral signaling, like “you don’t say, you’re pearl-clutching for karma when this is not at all something new or surprising when it comes to our society or professional sports.”  Plus I’m sure it’s tediously Bernsteinian to see everyone follow the expected weepy scripts in reaction to this.  
 

edit:  plus it’s clear that nobody learned anything from this Beach thing because, well 

 

 

[OnWis97]

7 hours ago, IceCap said:

It's not brand loyalty. It's the fetishization of sports above all else in society.

 

Why did Penn State enable a child predator for forty years? Why did the Blackhawks sweep sexual abuse under the rug? Because our society is broken and we elevate sports to a level above what it should be. And that leads to coaches and executives in sports believing that "the organization" and "culture" needs to be protected above all else. 
Even in the face of sexual assault. 

I agree with this but my point was meant to be beyond sports.

For example, Liberty University. (https://news.yahoo.com/liberty-university-accused-punishing-students-174900305.html).

 

I don't know much about the journal I'm going to link but I think some of the reasons we'll sacrifice our most vulnerable for an organization (be it sports or otherwise) are captured. 

• "...hopes of saving the institution’s reputation, and the money that accompanies it."
• Institutions "command emotion. They inspire loyalty."

https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2018/08/21/498646.htm

 

I think there's also something akin to a "bystander effect" or a gutlessness of not being able to go against the grain and do the right thing. I can actually relate to that but what I can't relate to is being able to sleep at night knowing that someone is continuing to victimize people and that I could do something about it...(like quietly dismissing a video coach who goes on to coach high school hockey or watching a caught-in-person former coach come to campus every day...or shuffling abusers between various branches of the organization to take the heat off them until the next time it gets turned back up). Even now, I'm not naming institutions because their defenders are relentless.

[The_Admiral]

4 hours ago, CS85 said:

I’m guessing it comes from a place of tiresome moral signaling, like “you don’t say, you’re pearl-clutching for karma when this is not at all something new or surprising when it comes to our society or professional sports.”  Plus I’m sure it’s tediously Bernsteinian to see everyone follow the expected weepy scripts in reaction to this.  

 

Yeah, that's just what being a hockey fan is now: moral grandstanding and jerking off over the Carolina Hurricanes. Whatever, let them get their dunks in.

 

9 hours ago, IceCap said:

It's not brand loyalty. It's the fetishization of sports above all else in society.

Above that, it's the idea that teams have to win at all costs. That's especially big in hockey. You sacrifice everything to win and that's what we're supposed to love about it. The Blackhawks sacrificed a lot in 2010, obviously. But I understand why Quenneville, on the cusp of a Stanley Cup Final, would get vague news about some weird sex stuff going down with their video coach and just say "I can't deal with this right now." He shouldn't have had to. Other people in the organization should have. I think there's far more blame for people above him. The people who gave the guy glowing recommendations and allowed him to go forth and molest children, not adults but children, are the people I'm most upset with. 

[Digby]

2 hours ago, OnWis97 said:

I think there's also something akin to a "bystander effect" or a gutlessness of not being able to go against the grain and do the right thing. I can actually relate to that but what I can't relate to is being able to sleep at night knowing that someone is continuing to victimize people and that I could do something about it...(like quietly dismissing a video coach who goes on to coach high school hockey or watching a caught-in-person former coach come to campus every day...or shuffling abusers between various branches of the organization to take the heat off them until the next time it gets turned back up). Even now, I'm not naming institutions because their defenders are relentless.

 

Obviously the NHL is the bigger stage, but this is the same thing happening in the NWSL right now... decorated successful coach was credibly accused of abuse by multiple of his own players 6 years ago, Portland team investigates and declines to renew his contract but never mentions publicly what they found, oops the guy immediately got hired by a new team and continued to be a creep. 

 

I don't know what it is ... fear of backlash? fear of a libel suit? general cowardice? but the "not my problem" thing is pervasive with these stories.

[Scrumptious Ham]

He deserves a suspension. He doesnt deserve to be ran out the League. It's on his superiors' head. Banning him from the League is culture vulture stuff. 

[monkeypower]

30 minutes ago, Scrumptious Ham said:

He deserves a suspension. He doesnt deserve to be ran out the League. It's on his superiors' head. Banning him from the League is culture vulture stuff. 

 

So banning Quenneville would be the NHL stealing traits, language and/or fashion from another ethnic or social group in order to create their own identity and/or to make money?

 

I'm assuming that's not what you meant and you misremembered "Cancel Culture".

[Ridleylash]

So Duncan Keith is also a lying piece of . You're one of the leaders of that team that pretty clearly knew what had happened, Keith, you can't exactly feign ignorance. 

[rams80]

1 hour ago, Scrumptious Ham said:

He deserves a suspension. He doesnt deserve to be ran out the League. It's on his superiors' head. Banning him from the League is culture vulture stuff. 

 

Having placed "winning hockey games" over addressing major felonious criminal behavior, and at minimum, being willing to allow his name to be placed on a recommendation that helped a sexual predator find other victims, he literally can never be trusted in a leadership position again.  He needs to go.

[spartacat_12]

I think in situations like this, where you have systemic abuse being enabled by organizational power dynamics, I have a hard time putting too much blame on the other Blackhawks players. They are also victims of this system, but obviously to much lesser degree than Beach was.

 

As Toews said, in hindsight it's clear that they should have done more, but you have to look at the circumstances surrounding the situation. For guys like Kane, Keith, & Toews, the Blackhawks organization gave them their pro opportunity, and the management team would have mentored them from teenage boys into men. There would naturally be an immense amount of trust in the organization, especially when they've surrounded you with a championship team, so when you see that Aldrich is no longer with the team the following fall I can understand them determining that the situation was dealt with.

 

Aldrich should have his name crossed out on the Cup, and anyone from the management team/coaching staff at the time should be out of hockey, but I don't think it's fair to lump the players in with the actual decision makers in the organization.

 

And if you want the players to actually be honest about what they knew & when they knew it, you need to offer some degree of immunity & cultivate an environment where they can speak freely without judgement. Otherwise anyone who has plausible deniability is just going to keep saying they never knew.

[The_Admiral]

11 minutes ago, spartacat_12 said:

And if you want the players to actually be honest about what they knew & when they knew it, you need to offer some degree of immunity & cultivate an environment where they can speak freely without judgement. Otherwise anyone who has plausible deniability is just going to keep saying they never knew.

 

Yeah, you have Brent Sopel getting his name back in the paper by running his mouth about how everyone knew and wouldn't speak up, unlike him. Didn't hear anything from you then. You were the one at the pride parade being a good ally. Not good enough, evidently.

[CS85]

The Graham James, Theo Fleury, and Sheldon Kennedy story reads almost identically to this one.  Not much appears to have changed.

[The_Admiral]

The difference is that the Blackhawks ran roughshod over the league for about five or six years and made everyone else not like them, so now everyone can post about it and get their revenge. Graham James never did anything to reddit.

[DTConcepts]

 

18 hours ago, the admiral said:

It's really gonna be unfortunate if we have to act like Joel Quenneville is tantamount to Joe Paterno because of freaking Kyle Beach. 

It doesn't matter if it's Kyle Beach or Wayne Gretzky, Coach Q or Joe Paterno — Sexual assault of any kind against anyone can never be tolerated, and neither can the covering up of that assault. There should be zero tolerance towards this kind of s***, and the idea that we should be nicer to Quenneville, Bowman, or anyone else just because Kyle Beach isn't a superstar or because there are other people who have done worse is frankly disgusting.

 

35 minutes ago, the admiral said:

The difference is that the Blackhawks ran roughshod over the league for about five or six years and made everyone else not like them, so now everyone can post about it and get their revenge. Graham James never did anything to reddit.

The notion that the outrage over the story is just about "revenge" for the Blackhawks being a good team in the early aughts is even more f***ing disgusting.

[tp49]

Quote

The Director of Human Resources recalled that McDonough told her that, during the meeting, the group decided not to alert Human Resources or outside legal counsel and to not do anything about the incident during the playoffs so as not to “disturb team chemistry.”434 The Director of Human Resources further recalled McDonough saying that the group decided to keep the alleged incident among themselves for the duration of the playoffs and that they would address the issue as soon as possible after the season.435

The above quote is from page 49 of the report.  There were some very simple, easy steps the "brain trust" could have done in the interim on the spot namely isolating Aldrich from the team, suspending him either with or without pay, even outright termination of employment.  That they didn't, deciding in essence to sweep the matter under the rug until after the season speaks volumes.  Even ten years ago when an issue like this pops up it needs to be dealt with immediately not "as soon as possible after the season."  

 

If I own the Panthers Quenneville is fired immediately.  If I'm commissioner there would be bans,  Sadly, I don't think Bettman has the stones to mete out the severe punishment warranted by this situation.  The Blackhawks were find one million dollars less than the Devils were for the Kovalchuk cap circumvention issue.