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Seattle Sounders FC announce plan to "explore the club's identity"


Brian in Boston

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Count me among the group that things the current logo is dated and the colors are jarring. Looking at some of the older Sounders logos, there are a lot of color options they can revert to that I think would work lot better on kits and apparel while still retaining the team's history.  However, at the end of the day, its about what the Seattle fans want and if they want to keep their color scheme - go ahead, its certainly unique. 

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16 hours ago, raysox said:

I've heard from a source a long time ago saying that they have to license the Space Needle every time they use it and wanted to move away from it

The Alamo has this same issue too. It's partially why the Spurs don't use it in Fiesta or Hispanic Night branding as much as you would expect them to. It may be why the San Antonio Missions have a rather abstract version of it mixed in with parts of Mission Concepcion and Mission San Jose for the A and M for the cap logos. 

Events - San Antonio Archive - Silver Eagle Distributors HoustonSan antonio missions Logos

 

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On 2/17/2022 at 11:46 AM, VampyrRabbitDesign said:

So why exactly does the Space Needle imagery have to be leased, and how much does it cost? Considering just how iconic the building is and makes for a great symbol, I would consider it money well spent.


The Space Needle must be licensed due to relatively modern trademark law that allows the unique characteristics of architecture to be trademarked by the owners. Many of the iconic buildings you see in the United States have registered trademarks.

 

In this case, the owners of the Space Needle would argue that the Sounders logo is being used in trade (which it is, merch, tickets, etc) and that it creates confusion that they’re associated with each other. Also, the space needle is such a universally well known symbol that it likely would fall under the exception that it would not need to be in the same industry as the Sounders to show infringement.

 

And just because people on the board don’t know the difference: Copyright could be a factor here, but there are architectural exceptions to copyright laws that generally allow for the fair use of architecture that can be viewed from a public space (there are exceptions to that exception, but I’ll leave it at generalizations for now). So generally copyright of architectural exteriors are limited to things like blueprints and building plans (but not always). So I don’t think it’s likely that the space needle would win a case saying that this stylized depiction is copyright infringement.

 

With regards to cost, that’s going to vary on a variety of factors: Type of use, platform, whether it will be used in advertising, length of use, range of use (local, regional, national, worldwide, etc.), general visibility of the use, expected audience size, etc. 
 

From my own experience, when you reach out to these companies, they will send back a form and you will fill out that information, then months of negotiations will occur. Generally I’ve found that these costs are less than the general public would guess, but they can certainly add up over time, especially with how extensively the Sounders logo is used on a variety of platforms, and every use must be licensed. 

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The owners of the Space Needle are kind of :censored:s so it doesn't surprise me they're hyperprotective of their brand. They should be, but also, it costs like $40 to go up to the top and look around, so :censored: those guys.

 

The Sounders have been the most successful Seattle team (with the Storm being a close contender) since they started, so I think their brand is strong enough to live without the Space Needle included.

 

On 2/17/2022 at 8:42 AM, seasaltvanilla said:

Them leaning into orca imagery as in the concept above would be an interesting direction that doesn't just echo the Space Needle again. Creates an opportunity for a clean secondary mark too.

 

I thought about this too, but the Canucks are so close. I don't think that needs to be a limiting factor per se, but would understand if it were.

1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said:

and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags

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40 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

it costs like $40 to go up to the top and look around, so :censored: those guys. 

That's how much it costs to go to the top of the CN Tower but that's $40 CND so you're getting 1,210 extra feet (368.8 meters) for $8.60 less. That's a good deal! 

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5 minutes ago, IceCap said:

That's how much it costs to go to the top of the CN Tower but that's $40 CND so you're getting 1,210 extra feet (368.8 meters) for $8.60 less. That's a good deal! 

 

That reminds me,

 

 

It's no "King of the Road" or the drive-thru, but it's still a good Super Dave bit.

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1 hour ago, IceCap said:

Do the Kraken have to pay royalties for their space needle alternate? Or do they get around that by claiming it's just a jaunty anchor? 

 

No idea, but someone else in this thread was absolutely right that the Kraken are killing it in local merchandise sales. Kraken stuff is everywhere, even though the team stinks.

 

Space Needle should ask them for money, especially since Climate Pledge is like a football field away from the Space Needle itself.

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1 hour ago, ShutUpLutz! said:

and the drunken doodoobags jumping off the tops of SUV's/vans/RV's onto tables because, oh yeah, they are drunken drug abusing doodoobags

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1 minute ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

 

No idea, but someone else in this thread was absolutely right that the Kraken are killing it in local merchandise sales. Kraken stuff is everywhere, even though the team stinks.

 

Space Needle should ask them for money, especially since Climate Pledge is like a football field away from the Space Needle itself.

 

Also, once the Sonics return, the Needle is needed. It's very much a part of all of their classic identities.

 

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Something like the Storm's current logo would be nice.

 

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But back to the Sounders - the Needle isn't really needed and the Orca rubs up on Cannucks territory. Might I suggest just doing a wave pattern in front of an "S" monogram? Maybe add NASL founding dates, given the direct lines that can be drawn to the original club.

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7 minutes ago, DG_ThenNowForever said:

No idea, but someone else in this thread was absolutely right that the Kraken are killing it in local merchandise sales. Kraken stuff is everywhere, even though the team stinks.

That's good to hear!

 

I'm also happy to see that the Kraken identity has taken with the colour scheme it has. The idea that all Seattle teams had to be green and blue was very limiting. 

 

2 minutes ago, SFGiants58 said:

 

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That's my favourite Sonics logo. 

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On 2/19/2022 at 2:01 PM, IceCap said:

That's good to hear!

 

I'm also happy to see that the Kraken identity has taken with the colour scheme it has. The idea that all Seattle teams had to be green and blue was very limiting. 

 

That's my favourite Sonics logo. 

I like it but it has a very 70s vibe.  

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On 2/19/2022 at 12:43 PM, MDGP said:


The Space Needle must be licensed due to relatively modern trademark law that allows the unique characteristics of architecture to be trademarked by the owners. Many of the iconic buildings you see in the United States have registered trademarks.

 

In this case, the owners of the Space Needle would argue that the Sounders logo is being used in trade (which it is, merch, tickets, etc) and that it creates confusion that they’re associated with each other. Also, the space needle is such a universally well known symbol that it likely would fall under the exception that it would not need to be in the same industry as the Sounders to show infringement.

 

And just because people on the board don’t know the difference: Copyright could be a factor here, but there are architectural exceptions to copyright laws that generally allow for the fair use of architecture that can be viewed from a public space (there are exceptions to that exception, but I’ll leave it at generalizations for now). So generally copyright of architectural exteriors are limited to things like blueprints and building plans (but not always). So I don’t think it’s likely that the space needle would win a case saying that this stylized depiction is copyright infringement.

 

With regards to cost, that’s going to vary on a variety of factors: Type of use, platform, whether it will be used in advertising, length of use, range of use (local, regional, national, worldwide, etc.), general visibility of the use, expected audience size, etc. 
 

From my own experience, when you reach out to these companies, they will send back a form and you will fill out that information, then months of negotiations will occur. Generally I’ve found that these costs are less than the general public would guess, but they can certainly add up over time, especially with how extensively the Sounders logo is used on a variety of platforms, and every use must be licensed. 

 

I wonder if you use the trademarked building as a part of a whole skyline--e.g., the Mets or the 80s Supersonics--could you get away with claiming fair use? I can see arguments both ways, but as a matter of public policy I would fall on the side of the combination of unique buildings is what creates a certain city's skyline, and images or renditions of that skyline should not be protected. An owner of the rights for an individual building should fail to show a likelihood of confusion or that their brand was somehow diluted by the use in a skyline.

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On 2/16/2022 at 3:26 PM, Brian in Boston said:

At an event formally unveiling plans for a new state-of-the-art headquarters for the team, Seattle Sounders FC brass also announced that they're planning to "explore the club's identity" as part of an anniversary celebration dubbed "March to the 50th".  

Chief Revenue and Marketing Officer Taylor Graham will head up the process which will incorporate talent from Seattle-based creative agency DNA, Seattle-based design studio Column, and New York-based creative studio Athletics. Graham reportedly said that the initiative could result in anything from a complete retooling of the Sounders' visual identity to a logo package that is barely changed.

Sounders FC Majority Owner Adrian Hanauer noted that the current Sounders brand is effectively disconnected from the historic brand and that the club's hope is to integrate the two during this process. He apparently stated, "This will ultimately be our fans deciding the look and feel of our marks going forward."  

https://www.sounderatheart.com/2022/2/16/22936838/seattle-sounders-new-training-facility-explore-new-brand-identity


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  • 3 weeks later...

My wish list:

 

Keep the name, but drop the "FC"

Mild tweaks to the colors are okay, but no radical changes (i.e. no neon green)

The badge shape is terrible and should have changed a decade ago.

 

I'm ambivalent on whether they should use the Space Needle, an orca, waves, whatever. Any of those could look great (or awful) depending on the execution.

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