2022 NFL Jersey Number Changes

[Sec19Row53]

11 hours ago, andrewharrington said:

Yet counterfeiters still get them wrong every time, and knockoffs are very easy to spot as a result.

Let me re-phrase my question, then.

 

If counterfeiters can't get standard block right enough that the numbers don't suck, why would it be necessary to tweak standard block to make it tougher to counterfeit?

[flyersfan]

the point is you want casuals to notice, where they spend the money to buy legitimate and not look like an obvious knockoff (although many are still ridiculously obvious anyways to our trained eyes)

 

[andrewharrington]

13 hours ago, Sec19Row53 said:

Let me re-phrase my question, then.

 

If counterfeiters can't get standard block right enough that the numbers don't suck, why would it be necessary to tweak standard block to make it tougher to counterfeit?

I’m assuming most counterfeiters are humans, a species that has shown a tendency to collectively improve these skills over time.

[MJWalker45]

16 minutes ago, andrewharrington said:

I’m assuming most counterfeiters are humans, a species that has shown a tendency to collectively improve these skills over time.

I've seen Poshmark knockoffs of NFL Alternate Edition jerseys that someone did on the boards a few years back. These guys are getting better, even if they're copying Jesse Alkire's non-official NFL jerseys to get out into the market. That's why making those little tweaks are important to these teams. 

[guest23]

2 hours ago, MJWalker45 said:

I've seen Poshmark knockoffs of NFL Alternate Edition jerseys that someone did on the boards a few years back. These guys are getting better, even if they're copying Jesse Alkire's non-official NFL jerseys to get out into the market. That's why making those little tweaks are important to these teams. 

 

Except for the cowboys nfl properties handles all of the merch sales and revenue sharing. For the counterfeit angle to be a rationale behind the proliferation of ugly team specific fonts it would have to come from the top down but given nike's role in custom font proliferation at the college level, I'm thinking thwarting counterfeiting is really not a driving the decision making process.

[BBTV]

My assumption with the custom font thing is that (and I'm just speculating) anyone can make and sell  a brown jersey with white block numbers and it's probably legal.  They could probably even throw some orange and white stripes on it.  But maybe the number style is trademarked or copyrighted or however that works, so if they copy the font, then they're infringing on trademarks and can be considered counterfeit.  Maybe?  Maybe team can even trademark certain striping patterns or other aspects of their uniforms, but that might be tough since there's a finite number of ways to do stripes.

 

Like how some fonts are freeware and some require licenses, and if you have a business and do your print ads in a licensed font that you're not paying for, the owner could come after  you.  Maybe NFL fonts are the same way, and they tweak standard block just enough to make it a custom font for which only they hold the license for.

[andrewharrington]

8 hours ago, BBTV said:

My assumption with the custom font thing is that (and I'm just speculating) anyone can make and sell  a brown jersey with white block numbers and it's probably legal.  They could probably even throw some orange and white stripes on it.  But maybe the number style is trademarked or copyrighted or however that works, so if they copy the font, then they're infringing on trademarks and can be considered counterfeit.  Maybe?  Maybe team can even trademark certain striping patterns or other aspects of their uniforms, but that might be tough since there's a finite number of ways to do stripes.

 

Like how some fonts are freeware and some require licenses, and if you have a business and do your print ads in a licensed font that you're not paying for, the owner could come after  you.  Maybe NFL fonts are the same way, and they tweak standard block just enough to make it a custom font for which only they hold the license for.

You can’t own any of that stuff in a legal sense (design of a number or letterform, team colors, stripe designs, etc.). It’s just simple branding and competitor exclusivity at play.

 

The only parts of a typeface that can have legal protection are the name and the actual digital file (the font itself). You have to purchase a license and follow the terms to use the font.

[guest23]

8 hours ago, BBTV said:

My assumption with the custom font thing is that (and I'm just speculating) anyone can make and sell  a brown jersey with white block numbers and it's probably legal.  They could probably even throw some orange and white stripes on it.  But maybe the number style is trademarked or copyrighted or however that works, so if they copy the font, then they're infringing on trademarks and can be considered counterfeit.  Maybe?  Maybe team can even trademark certain striping patterns or other aspects of their uniforms, but that might be tough since there's a finite number of ways to do stripes.

 

Like how some fonts are freeware and some require licenses, and if you have a business and do your print ads in a licensed font that you're not paying for, the owner could come after  you.  Maybe NFL fonts are the same way, and they tweak standard block just enough to make it a custom font for which only they hold the license for.

 

Another point to add about the anti-counterfeit angle is that the historically most popular franchises (eagles, raiders, cowboys, packers etc.) typically have the easiest to replicate jerseys and use traditional block fonts. Yes there are exceptions like seattle and certain superstars that wear custom fonts but if I'm nfl properties and I want to protect the shield from knockoffs wouldn't I try to do more to protect my most valuable brands?

[BBTV]

1 hour ago, andrewharrington said:

The only parts of a typeface that can have legal protection are the name and the actual digital file (the font itself). You have to purchase a license and follow the terms to use the font.

 

Right... so if a team develops the font and doesn't license it to anyone, wouldn't it be a crime if someone reproduced it?  Or are you saying that someone can trace it and make an exact replica and it's not a crime unless they steal the actual digital file?

[oldschoolvikings]

1 hour ago, andrewharrington said:

You can’t own any of that stuff in a legal sense (design of a number or letterform, team colors, stripe designs, etc.). It’s just simple branding and competitor exclusivity at play.

 

The only parts of a typeface that can have legal protection are the name and the actual digital file (the font itself). You have to purchase a license and follow the terms to use the font.

 

Interesting.  But I'm pretty sure there have been times that someone has reproduced and re-named team fonts and made them available online, and got cease and desisted over it.  My assumption was the design itself was protected.   

[BBTV]

1 hour ago, oldschoolvikings said:

 

Interesting.  But I'm pretty sure there have been times that someone has reproduced and re-named team fonts and made them available online, and got cease and desisted over it.  My assumption was the design itself was protected.   

 

Yeah the dude on this forum - name was something like eriqjaffe (not exactly, but something like that.)  I still have those on an old hard drive somewhere in my basement.

 

edit: this guy (but his whole font collection is no longer available.)

http://luc.devroye.org/fonts-46148.html

[andrewharrington]

1 hour ago, BBTV said:

 

Right... so if a team develops the font and doesn't license it to anyone, wouldn't it be a crime if someone reproduced it?  Or are you saying that someone can trace it and make an exact replica and it's not a crime unless they steal the actual digital file?

Exactly. Now, one could certainly argue there’s bad intent there depending on the situation, which could affect the legality.

 

Eriq likely got a cease and desist because his font names contained the names of leagues and teams (if I recall), or a lawyer was bluffing him.

[flyersfan]

I believe the case was the same for Fonts By COnrad, because his didnt use team names at all and was also told to stop

[oldschoolvikings]

8 minutes ago, flyersfan said:

I believe the case was the same for Fonts By COnrad, because his didnt use team names at all and was also told to stop

 

Yeah, that was the one I was thinking of.

[Bruhammydude]

I don't think it's rocket science, I just think that teams who use non-proprietary fonts want to look unique 

[Sec19Row53]

6 hours ago, guest23 said:

 

Another point to add about the anti-counterfeit angle is that the historically most popular franchises (eagles, raiders, cowboys, packers etc.) typically have the easiest to replicate jerseys and use traditional block fonts. Yes there are exceptions like seattle and certain superstars that wear custom fonts but if I'm nfl properties and I want to protect the shield from knockoffs wouldn't I try to do more to protect my most valuable brands?

Regarding the bolded part:

Whiskey

Tango

Foxtrot?

 

If a valuable brand like the Raiders, Cowboys, or Packers has existed with the standard block font like they have for so long, doesn't that shoot your theory down?

[MCM0313]

19 hours ago, andrewharrington said:

You can’t own any of that stuff in a legal sense (design of a number or letterform, team colors, stripe designs, etc.). It’s just simple branding and competitor exclusivity at play.

 

The only parts of a typeface that can have legal protection are the name and the actual digital file (the font itself). You have to purchase a license and follow the terms to use the font.

So, what you’re saying is that I should create a custom font and sell the rights to it as an NFT?

[guest23]

17 hours ago, Sec19Row53 said:

Regarding the bolded part:

Whiskey

Tango

Foxtrot?

 

If a valuable brand like the Raiders, Cowboys, or Packers has existed with the standard block font like they have for so long, doesn't that shoot your theory down?

 

My point is that number fonts are not related to anti-counterfeit measures because the teams that consistently have the strongest brands, largest fan bases, and sell the most merchandise over time have easy to replicate jerseys and don't have proprietary fonts. Your choice to bold my acknowledgement of outliers rather than examine the totality of my statement misses the point completely.

 

Allow me to rephrase: If the league and its flagship franchises felt that counterfeiting could be thwarted by switch to proprietary fonts, they would have made the change long ago. The lack of action of the parties mentioned suggests that making such a move is not worthwhile.

[andrewharrington]

6 hours ago, MCM0313 said:

So, what you’re saying is that I should create a custom font and sell the rights to it as an NFT?

If you think people will pay a lot of money for an exclusive license to your font, I suppose it might be worthwhile, but unless you’re a globally recognized type designer, I don’t see much of a collectors’ market for rare OTF files popping up anytime soon lol.

[Sec19Row53]

5 hours ago, guest23 said:

 

My point is that number fonts are not related to anti-counterfeit measures because the teams that consistently have the strongest brands, largest fan bases, and sell the most merchandise over time have easy to replicate jerseys and don't have proprietary fonts. Your choice to bold my acknowledgement of outliers rather than examine the totality of my statement misses the point completely.

 

Allow me to rephrase: If the league and its flagship franchises felt that counterfeiting could be thwarted by switch to proprietary fonts, they would have made the change long ago. The lack of action of the parties mentioned suggests that making such a move is not worthwhile.

The part I bolded was a statement that "certain superstars that wear custom fonts".

 

What does that mean? Patrick Mahomes doesn't get a custom font. Tom Brady doesn't wear a custom font. No superstar wears a custom font.

 

Again, I have no idea what the bolded part meant. As for your second paragraph above, we are in total agreement. I must have missed that in how I was thrown off by the other stuff.