2022 NFL Season week by week uniform match-up combos: From HOF Game to Super Bowl LVII

[Cujo]

3 hours ago, TrueYankee26 said:

1999 Browns will always be the New Browns. The Old Browns went to Baltimore.

 

I don't know why this is so hard for others to comprehend. Unless you were born after 1996, you know exactly what happened.

[TrueYankee26]

25 minutes ago, Cujo said:

 

I don't know why this is so hard for others to comprehend. Unless you were born after 1996, you know exactly what happened.

Same thing for the old Hornets moving to NO, the old WPG Jets going to Phoenix, and the Sonics moving to OKC should Seattle get a new Expansion Team

[Cujo]

7 minutes ago, TrueYankee26 said:

Same thing for the old Hornets moving to NO, the old WPG Jets going to Phoenix, and the Sonics moving to OKC should Seattle get a new Expansion Team

 

The Hornets are really the best example. Were an expansion team, got their old name back, but don't lie to their fans about what happened in the past.

[Cujo]

1 hour ago, PERRIN said:

I'm so glad silver pants are back, instantly upgrades this set from a C+ to an A-

 

The silver pants need to (and i believe will eventually) get paired up with their white jerseys. Pretty sure it's been since '99 since the Pats last did this.

[dont care]

4 hours ago, PERRIN said:

I'm too new to the boards to tell if this is the right usage of the term, but... Clevejacked?

It always is, even when Cleveland isn’t being descussed

[oldschoolvikings]

1 hour ago, Cujo said:

 

I don't know why this is so hard for others to comprehend. Unless you were born after 1996, you know exactly what happened.

 

Well, I was born way before 1996, so I know exactly what happened, and you're leaving out a few points.

 

When Modell decided he wanted to move the Browns to Baltimore the city of Cleveland and Browns season ticket holders took legal action that made the NFL come up with a compromise that kept the Browns franchise, history, records, and intellectual property in Cleveland. In return, Modell was permitted to establish a new franchise in Baltimore, which eventually became the Ravens. Since obviously there was no way for the Browns to play the 1996 season in Cleveland, the franchise was officially deactivated by the NFL and Modell was allowed to transfer its football organization, which included all the former Browns' players, to the Ravens. That means that, legally,  the Ravens are officially regarded by the NFL as an expansion team that began play in 1996.  

 

Now I get why a lot of people want to roll their eyes at the legal mumbo-jumbo, and why it feels like a bit of a word salad of justification, but what I don't understand is why anybody who isn't a fan of either the Browns' or the Ravens' cares enough to keep arguing about it.

 

According to what's established in the NFL's official books, the Ravens are an expansion team that began in 1996, and the Browns are a team that took a few years off in the late 90's.  The rest of us don't really have an "official book" on the matter, so what we might think is of no importance. 

[Cujo]

Aside from bailing on Cleveland's team name and colors, how was Art Modell moving the Browns to Baltimore any different from when Irsay Mayflower'd the Colts to Indy?

 

(It's not.)

[TrueYankee26]

And the New Browns are a disgrace to the Old Browns anyway. Cleveland would gladly trade these Browns to Baltimore to get the old Browns back lol.

[Cujo]

8 minutes ago, TrueYankee26 said:

And the New Browns are a disgrace to the Old Browns anyway. Cleveland would gladly trade these Browns to Baltimore to get the old Browns back lol.

 

Clearly.

 

Cleveland Browns playoff wins: 1

Baltimore Ravens Super Bowl wins: 2

[oldschoolvikings]

20 minutes ago, Cujo said:

Aside from bailing on Cleveland's team name and colors, how was Art Modell moving the Browns to Baltimore any different from when Irsay Mayflower'd the Colts to Indy?

 

(It's not.)

 

Well, the difference is the NFL didn't deactivate the Baltimore Colts franchise long enough for a new organization to pick it up and move forward, while simultaneously awarding  Irsay a new franchise in Indianapolis, allowing him to transfer the assets that used to be the Colts to the new city. Which is (again, legally) what happened the the case of the Browns and Ravens. 

[dont care]

8 hours ago, oldschoolvikings said:

 

Well, the difference is the NFL didn't deactivate the Baltimore Colts franchise long enough for a new organization to pick it up and move forward, while simultaneously awarding  Irsay a new franchise in Indianapolis, allowing him to transfer the assets that used to be the Colts to the new city. Which is (again, legally) what happened the the case of the Browns and Ravens. 

Was there an expansion draft when the ravens were created? No? Did all the contracts that the browns had transfer to the ravens because they are literally the same organization. Yes? Then they weren’t an expansion team.

[canzman]

Legal actions by the city of Cleveland and Browns season ticket holders led the NFL to broker a compromise that saw the Browns franchise, history, records, and intellectual property remain in Cleveland. In return, Modell was permitted to establish a new franchise in Baltimore, which was eventually named the Ravens. He moved the players and staff not the franchise. The players and staff left Cleveland not the Browns.
 

Since it was deemed infeasible for the Browns to play the 1996 season in Cleveland under such circumstances, the franchise was officially deactivated by the NFL in February 1996 and Modell was allowed to transfer his football organization to the Ravens: thus, the Ravens are officially regarded by the NFL as an expansion team populated by the former Browns staff and roster that began play in 1996.
 

As part of the settlement, the NFL agreed to reactivate the Browns franchise no later than the 1999 season provided the City of Cleveland constructed an NFL-caliber venue to replace the aging Cleveland Stadium. Even if Cleveland had forced Modell to sell or blocked the move the Browns still would have been deactivated as Cleveland Stadium had to be replaced and the city had no other venue that met NFL requirements for even temporary use. The city of Cleveland subsequently demolished Cleveland Stadium beginning in late 1996, and built a new stadium on the same site. By 1998, the NFL had ruled out moving any of the league's then-30 teams to Cleveland (and by extension committed to stocking the roster of  the Browns with an expansion draft).

This was a first in the history of sports so people have a hard time accepting it, but it caused changes in other sports.  The Seattle SuperSonics' move to Oklahoma City in 2008 included an agreement that the SuperSonics' name, logo, colors, and history would all be left in Seattle. This also includes banners and trophies, which would be displayed in a museum until such time as a new franchise (expansion or relocation) is brought to Seattle to be hung from the rafters of its arena.  The Minnesota Twins, when they signed their deal with Hennepin County, Minnesota for Target Field in 2006, agreed to a provision that was signed into law, allowing the state of Minnesota the right of first refusal to buy the team if it is ever sold. Also, it requires that the name, colors, World Series trophies, and history of the team remain in Minnesota if the Twins are ever moved out of the state. When the Pistons moved back into downtown Detroit from Auburn Hills  they made an agreement similar to the Supersonic's deal: if the team were ever to move out of Detroit, the team's name, colors, history, and records, including the team's NBA championship trophies, would remain in Detroit. 

The  point is that it is the fans that hold that history and relive those memories. Cleveland cheered for Otto Graham, Lou Groza, Jim Brown and the like. Not the people of Baltimore. Why should Baltimore have been able to claim that history. Did the people of Baltimore feel gut punched with the drive and fumble happened? No, they felt gut punched with the Mayflower trucks pulled out in the dark of night in 1984. It is a crime that Baltimore can't claim the history of Johnny Unitas. It was the people of Baltimore that cheered him not Indianapolis. Same is true with the memories of Bum Philips walking the sidelines in his Stetson and Earl Campbell running people over are Houston. That history should have stayed in Houston.

 

If owners want to move their organization fine, that is their right but leave the history with the fans that cherish it. Players and coaches come and go every year even ownership changes at times. The same team never plays 2 years in a row in any sport. Without the fans does any of the history and moments matter?

[Cujo]

15 hours ago, oldschoolvikings said:

Modell decided he wanted to move the Browns to Baltimore

 

15 hours ago, oldschoolvikings said:

Modell was allowed to transfer its football organization, which included all the former Browns' players, to the Ravens

 

6 hours ago, canzman said:

He moved the players and staff

 

Thus, the Cleveland Browns became the Baltimore Ravens. Thanks for clarifying!

[oldschoolvikings]

6 minutes ago, Cujo said:

 

 

 

Thus, the Cleveland Browns became the Baltimore Ravens. Thanks for clarifying!

 

You're welcome.  Here's even more clarification.

 

Established June 4, 1944; 78 years ago First season: 1946 Play in FirstEnergy Stadium Cleveland, Ohio Headquartered in the CrossCountry Mortgage Campus Berea, Ohio[2]
Logo Wordmark
League/conference affiliations
All-America Football Conference (1946–1949) Western Division (1946–1948) National Football League (1950–present) American Conference (1950–1952) Eastern Conference (1953–1969) Century Division (1967–1969) American Football Conference (1970–1995; 1999–present) AFC Central (1970–1995; 1999–2001) AFC North (2002–present)

[canzman]

3 minutes ago, Cujo said:

Thus, the Cleveland Browns became the Baltimore Ravens. Thanks for clarifying!

If a McDonald's owner moves his entire staff to a new location and starts a Wendy's it's not a McDonald's just b/c they used to work in one no matter how long those people used to work for McDonalds they aren't a McDonald's anymore and can't serve Big Macs.

 

Also anyone can cherry pick portion of a topic to support their stance... Much more was stated then the sentences you quoted from me and Oldschoolvikings.

[Cujo]

Just now, oldschoolvikings said:

 

You're welcome.  Here's even more clarification.

 

Established June 4, 1944; 78 years ago[1] First season: 1946 Play in FirstEnergy Stadium Cleveland, Ohio Headquartered in the CrossCountry Mortgage Campus Berea, Ohio[2]
Logo Wordmark
League/conference affiliations
All-America Football Conference (1946–1949) Western Division (1946–1948) National Football League (1950–present) American Conference (1950–1952) Eastern Conference (1953–1969) Century Division (1967–1969) American Football Conference (1970–1995; 1999–present) AFC Central (1970–1995; 1999–2001) AFC North (2002–present)

 

It's all faux history. Like how the WWE doesn't acknowledge Chris Benoit ever working for their company, the NFL wants people to conviviality forget that Modell and the original Browns ran off to Baltimore -- I suppose to make people feel less awkward about what actually happened.

 

Ravens franchise and lineage began in 1946.

 

Browns in 1999.

 

End of story.

[Indigo]

10 minutes ago, Cujo said:

 

 

 

Thus, the Cleveland Browns became the Baltimore Ravens. Thanks for clarifying!

This is starting to get into revisonist history territory. Your just taking evidence that supports your narrative and proceeding to ignore all of the fact that clearly points to the contrary.

[Indigo]

3 minutes ago, Cujo said:

 

It's all faux history. Like how the WWE doesn't acknowledge Chris Benoit ever working for their company, the NFL wants people to conviviality forget that Modell and the original Browns ran off to Baltimore -- I suppose to make people feel less awkward about what actually happened.

 

Ravens franchise and lineage began in 1946.

 

Browns in 1999.

 

End of story.

The "end of story" is what the NFL's and City of Cleveland's legal books say. Our opinions on this forum don't define or change anything.

[oldschoolvikings]

10 minutes ago, Cujo said:

 

It's all faux history. The NFL wants people to conviviality forget that Modell and the original Browns ran off to Baltimore -- I suppose to make people feel less awkward about what actually happened.

 

Ravens franchise and lineage began in 1946.

 

Browns in 1999.

 

End of story.

 

The NFL wants people to forget in a way that is "relating to, occupied with, or fond of feasting, drinking, and good company"?  Weird.

 

Well, if that's the end of the story, then its the end of the story I guess.  I think I'll just head to google and spend the afternoon perusing all those Baltimore Ravens records and stats from before 1996... hey, wait a minute!!  Maybe this isn't the end of the story!!

 

[Cujo]

2 minutes ago, oldschoolvikings said:

 

The NFL wants people to forget in a way that is "relating to, occupied with, or fond of feasting, drinking, and good company"?  Weird.

 

Well, if that's the end of the story, then its the end of the story I guess.  I think I'll just head to google and spend the afternoon perusing all those Baltimore Ravens records and stats from before 1996... hey, wait a minute!!  Maybe this isn't the end of the story!!

 

 

I've stated facts and said my peace on this. We've hit the point now where we've gotta agree to disagree before the mods extinguish this Clevejacking and drop a hammer on us.

 

Also, conveniently.