Astroturf and Brain Cancer

[BBTV]

Everyone knows how bad the Astroturf field was at the old vet.  It had seams that ended careers, and didn't have any padding under it so it was basically carpet on top of concrete.

 

But what people outside of Phila may not know is that 6 former Phillies players that played on that turf have died from the same rare form of brain cancer (glioblastoma ), including a few franchise icons.  Also two KC Royals (who they played in the World Series) also died of brain cancer (Ken Brett and Quisenberry).   That cannot be a coincidence.  I cannot believe that it took this long, but the local paper (as well as researchers from Notre Dame) did an investigation where they acquired pieces of the old turf (prior to when they replaced it with NexTurf, which had its own issues) and tested it for chemicals.  Turns out it was loaded with 16 types of PFAS ("forever chemicals") that have a direct link to various cancers (though for some reason, they never researched if brain cancer was one) and even messes with your balls.

 

This is a really interesting read, and shows that while everyone focused on the physical dangers of playing on turf - ripped up knees, concussions, skin burns, general knee degradation, etc., the invisibal threat was brain cancer.

 

Makes me wonder if studies will be done in other cities that used the same brand of turf, or if this was unique to Philadelphia.  Anyone from a city that had Astroturf know if brain cancer has been a thing with their players? 

 

This is LONG, and admittedly I started skimming before I got to the end, but I plan on getting through it when I get some more time.

 

https://www.inquirer.com/news/inq2/astroturf-vet-artificial-turf-pfas-forever-chemicals-glioblastoma-cancer-phillies-1980-20230307.html

 

 

[MJWalker45]

18 minutes ago, BBTV said:

Everyone knows how bad the Astroturf field was at the old vet.  It had seams that ended careers, and didn't have any padding under it so it was basically carpet on top of concrete.

 

But what people outside of Phila may not know is that 6 former Phillies players that played on that turf have died from the same rare form of brain cancer (glioblastoma ), including a few franchise icons.  Also two KC Royals (who they played in the World Series) also died of brain cancer (Brett and Quisenberry).   That cannot be a coincidence.  I cannot believe that it took this long, but the local paper (as well as researchers from Notre Dame) did an investigation where they acquired pieces of the old turf (prior to when they replaced it with NexTurf, which had its own issues) and tested it for chemicals.  Turns out it was loaded with 16 types of PFAS ("forever chemicals") that have a direct link to various cancers (though for some reason, they never researched if brain cancer was one) and even messes with your balls.

 

This is a really interesting read, and shows that while everyone focused on the physical dangers of playing on turf - ripped up knees, concussions, skin burns, general knee degradation, etc., the invisibal threat was brain cancer.

 

Makes me wonder if studies will be done in other cities that used the same brand of turf, or if this was unique to Philadelphia.  Anyone from a city that had Astroturf know if brain cancer has been a thing with their players? 

 

This is LONG, and admittedly I started skimming before I got to the end, but I plan on getting through it when I get some more time.

 

https://www.inquirer.com/news/inq2/astroturf-vet-artificial-turf-pfas-forever-chemicals-glioblastoma-cancer-phillies-1980-20230307.html

 

 

I would think Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, and Chicago (Soldier Field) may be the best places to compare with this. How many college football teams used similar turf as well? I know Ohio State and most of the Big Ten teams that used turf would have most likely been using similar types as those used in Philadelphia. 

[BBTV]

2 minutes ago, MJWalker45 said:

I would think Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, and Chicago (Soldier Field) may be the best places to compare with this. How many college football teams used similar turf as well? I know Ohio State and most of the Big Ten teams that used turf would have most likely been using similar types as those used in Philadelphia. 

 

True about the colleges.  Those guys spend a max of 4 years on the turf?  From what I've read, that can be more than enough to have complications from the PFAS but the risk would certainly be higher for pro athletes that remain in the same city for a decade (which at one time was normal, vs today) and played on the same surface in half their road games too.

 

I haven't read about football players getting the cancer, so maybe the 1 game / week limited their exposure enough?  Though I assume most practice facilities at the time used the same turf.

[TrueYankee26]

And considering it was very popular in the 70s and 80s and stadiums like the Vet lasted up to 2003.. oh boy.

 

This is sobering, scary stuff.

[TBGKon]

1 hour ago, TrueYankee26 said:

And considering it was very popular in the 70s and 80s and stadiums like the Vet lasted up to 2003.. oh boy.

 

This is sobering, scary stuff.

The Vet also changed to FieldTurf in the later years, so the Astroturf claims might be from the earlier years.

[Jaffa]

Apologies if this is mentioned in the article - it's behind a paywall - but it puts me in mind of a scandal in the Netherlands a few years back when it emerged that some of the rubber crumb used on their artificial 3G pitches was contaminated with carcinogens. Apparently, the rubber came from recycled tubing that had been used in the petrochemical industry, and so was laced with various nasties - it's led to tightening of regulations in the EU regarding how materials are sourced for artificial pitches.

 

I recall reading that a disproportionate number of those diagnosed were goalkeepers - they're more frequently in contact with the ground so it seems they had greater exposure to the contaminated crumb.

[The_Admiral]

Old Busch and the Vet really sound the alarms on this one -- all that summer heat bearing down on the plastic probably caused it to degrade in ways manufacturers weren't prepared for.

[Sykotyk]

I would definitely think exposure would play a key rule in susceptibility to this (if they are linked). NFL would play 10 games a year roughly, and you're only out there for half the game and a lot of stoppages. Baseball players would be out there 81 games a year (plus games at other stadiums with similar/same turf), and though you're out there 'half the game' you're also on the basepaths frequently as a hitter, etc.

 

It may be just one venue has contaminated turf, it may be a coincidence tied to some other outlier (team facility, plane, spring training, etc?). Or, it could be a problem from the type of turf itself.

 

Big question, and the money question is, did the turf company(-ies) know about this link ever, and when did they know it?

 

If no one knew, and the turf is largely no longer in use, it would just be a sad point of history of the game.

[tBBP]

2 hours ago, Jaffa said:

Apologies if this is mentioned in the article - it's behind a paywall - but it puts me in mind of a scandal in the Netherlands a few years back when it emerged that some of the rubber crumb used on their artificial 3G pitches was contaminated with carcinogens. Apparently, the rubber came from recycled tubing that had been used in the petrochemical industry, and so was laced with various nasties - it's led to tightening of regulations in the EU regarding how materials are sourced for artificial pitches.

 

I recall reading that a disproportionate number of those diagnosed were goalkeepers - they're more frequently in contact with the ground so it seems they had greater exposure to the contaminated crumb.

 

That is sobering. And it leads me to wonder exactly where all that rubber that was recycled into pellets that I used to haul out of Des Moines IA and Salt Lake City UT back in the day came from—not to mention the rubber pellets currently used in FieldTurf today. (I've hauled a lot of that stuff to various athletic fields, most notably in and around Wichita KS.) I know much of the rubber in Des Moines came from recycled tires; not sure about the stuff from SLC.

[BBTV]

5 hours ago, TBGKon said:

The Vet also changed to FieldTurf in the later years, so the Astroturf claims might be from the earlier years.

NexTurf. A different product than FieldTurf. One that was so bad, the Ravens refused to play a preseason game on it and the game was cancelled. 
 

Edit: and it was only changed after the 2000 NFL season, so 2001 was the first non-Astroturf year. 

[BBTV]

6 hours ago, Jaffa said:

Apologies if this is mentioned in the article - it's behind a paywall

 

I didn't realized it was paywalled (though I subscribe) - I thought there was some free articles before it got walled.

 

There's nothing I found that goes as deep, but here's a couple other articles that should be free:

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/mlb/article-11832879/Dangerous-forever-chemicals-old-samples-turf-Phillies-Veterans-Stadium.html

 

This is a different article from the Inquirer (much shorter, and focused simply on the testing) that might not be paywalled.

https://www.inquirer.com/news/veterans-stadium-artificial-turf-samples-testing-pfas-forever-chemicals-cancer-20230307.html

[Red Comet]

Aside from George Brett being very much still alive and making a drunken ass of himself in every restaurant here, I've always wondered about why so many players from the multipurpose era wound up getting brain cancer. Considering how much AstroTurf proliferated, there's too high of an incidence to be a coincidence. 

Edited March 10, 2023 by Red Comet

[BBTV]

3 minutes ago, Red Comet said:

Aside from George Brett being very much still alive, I've always wondered about why so many players from the multipurpose era getting brain cancer. Considering how much AstroTurf proliferated, there's too high of an incidence to be a coincidence. 

 

Crap - my bad.  It was Ken Brett, not George Brett.  Ken did play for the Royals during the 1980 WS.  Technically I never said George, but it's obviously implied.

[Red Comet]

Just now, BBTV said:

 

Crap - my bad.  It was Ken Brett, not George Brett.  Ken did play for the Royals during the 1980 WS.

 

All good. Considering what a world-class A-hole George Brett is, I wish it was him sometimes. 

[BBTV]

Just now, Red Comet said:

 

All good. Considering what a world-class A-hole George Brett is, I wish it was him sometimes. 

 

Speaking of his world class A hole, he had a terrible case of hemorhoids during that 1980 WS.  It's infamous.  He had attendants running out to get Preparation H every day while they were in Phila, and he actually got pulled from a game because his world-class A hole was in so much pain.  He got surgery after the WS.

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/1981/03/01/sports/brett-in-hospital-for-surgery.html

https://www.inxmedical.com/blog/kansas-city-royals-george-brett-the-hemorrhoids-guy/#:~:text=In the 1980 World Series,to experiencing extreme hemorrhoid pain.

 

[Red Comet]

 

Here's another story involving George Brett's ass. 

[BBTV]

I genuinely think that brain cancer caused by turf that thousands of athletes have been exposed to is a pretty freaking serious topic, but I'm willing to let it devolve into a discussion of George Brett's various butthole issues if that's the will of the people.

[Red Comet]

You're right, this is a very serious topic. But, sometimes we can all use a bit of levity. 

[Walk-Off]

In all seriousness, a dangerous substance can affect different people in different ways.

 

"Seth" can be exposed heavily to a given substance and then go through life without ever being prone to any addiction, having any behavioral issue, or undergoing any colorectal trouble ... but he would suffer a bout of brain cancer that kills him at a saddeningly young age.

 

Meanwhile, "Cain" can be exposed to the exact same substance at all of the exact same times, at all of the exact same places, and under all of the exact same conditions, and he ends up never suffering from brain cancer and, in fact, lives to a later-than-normal age ... but he would find himself struggling constantly with addictions, tendencies toward antisocial behaviors, and colorectal disorders throughout a life that proves to be long in a (mentally and physically) painful way.

[BBTV]

8 hours ago, Walk-Off said:

In all seriousness, a dangerous substance can affect different people in different ways.

 

"Seth" can be exposed heavily to a given substance and then go through life without ever being prone to any addiction, having any behavioral issue, or undergoing any colorectal trouble ... but he would suffer a bout of brain cancer that kills him at a saddeningly young age.

 

Meanwhile, "Cain" can be exposed to the exact same substance at all of the exact same times, at all of the exact same places, and under all of the exact same conditions, and he ends up never suffering from brain cancer and, in fact, lives to a later-than-normal age ... but he would find himself struggling constantly with addictions, tendencies toward antisocial behaviors, and colorectal disorders throughout a life that proves to be long in a (mentally and physically) painful way.

 

But you typically know what risks you're accepting when you decide to play a sport.  For decades, NFL players weren't told what the real long-term effects of concussions were, so they couldn't reasonably accept the risk of CTE, suicidal depression, memory loss, etc.  As you said, things affect people differently, but it's still a non-negligible risk that they should be aware of before consenting to play.

 

Same with this turf.  Unlike the CTE thing, where I think that information was intentionally withheld, I don't think anyone had the slightest clue about what was in the turf, as that research simply (I assume) wasn't being done at the time.  But I also think that's irrelevant, and that based on the proof that's now coming out, anyone who played on it (and especially the families of those who died) should be lawyering up.  I'm not sure that the unawareness of a risk lets a company off the hook.  But maybe it does.  I'm not a lawyer, just a humble guy posting on a message board about George Brett's butthole.