Giambi admits to injecting steroids

[NJTank]

If Bonds was a supplier for other players he oes from just being a user to a pusher and that would make this allot more serious and he would deserve a big time penalty, maybe even the Pete Rose bannihment.

[See Red]

It's usually pretty popular to post a before and after picture of Barry Bonds in a thread relating to steroids talking about "Look how big he's gotten since then." And I have to keep the trend alive.

1993 (I believe, but he's a smaller sized Bonds none-the-less) - 46 Homeruns

The fact that he was able to hit 46 HR's when he was a thin as a rail should tell you that he already had great batspeed and his fast twitch muscles were already developed, years before he became the much larger Bonds we know today. That should tell you a little something about how little muscles (other than fast twitch muscles) affect how far the ball goes. And if it doesn't, you're too stubborn to try and understand this. A case of a player being as better power hitter as he gets older is not a rare occurence, Hank Aaron had his best season when he was 40. And let's not forget that Bonds may just have the best work ethic in the game.

Bonds does not 'push' the ball off the bat, the ball makes contact with the bat one time for a split second -- all that matters in terms of how hard a ball comes off the bat is the velocity of the ball, and the velocity of the bat, aka bat speed, which is all about the fast twitch muscles. Taking into effect that Bonds has great form, very good patience at the plate, and I've heard that they think Bonds sees the ball out of the pitchers hand quicker than anybody else, Bonds would be a great power hitter today with or without the bulk.

You don't need muscles to hit HR's -- Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle, Hank Aaron, etc., proved that -- the fact that Bonds still hit 46 HR's when he was as skinny as those guys should say something about what his batspeed was before.

[pcgd]

1) I'm not saying he took steroids. If he hasn't, he's the greatest player ever and I hate his guts anyway. I, deep down, really don't think he did knowingly. I really don't like his attitude or his actions so I really wish he did

2) Faster bat means harder hit balls. Steroids make you faster and stronger. I'm not saying Barry has benifited from steroids or that he took them, all I'm saying is steroids would help you in baseball. If it wouldn't, why would people lift weights?

3) One of my all time favorite players looks like he was on roids. (Mark McGwire) His injuries and etc. make you think he was on roids as well. He could have been, we will never know for sure. I don't think he did, he's too family to risk it. But, he hit 49 as a skinny rookie. So, great home run hitter skinny. He hit 70 bulked up. The strength helps. I don't see much of a difference in the bonds of yesterday and the bonds today. I see bigger differences in McGwire.

To review my rambling, I've heard alot of people say that steroids wouldn't help a baseball player. I was just saying it would in my opinion because of the increased batspeed and I wasn't taking away anything from Bonds before his assult on the home run record.

[See Red]

I see what you're saying. But the bat speed has to do mostly with the fast twitch muscles, and Barry Bonds had to have been pretty good to hit 46 as a skinny little guy. I don't think it helps all that much, because I think Barry Bonds would be in similar shape, steroids or not because of his work ethic. All steroids do is develop you faster. They don't get you to a level of which you could never get to otherwise, and I feel that Barry Bonds would be there anyway. He certainly has some of the best work ethic in the game.

But yeah, I definetely see what you're saying, but I think people make steroids out to make much more of a difference than they actually do.

I agree on Mark McGwire, I think the only thing he took was androstenedione, which he admitted to, and that's legal (I thought I remember something about the MLB making a rule against it, afterwards) and I don't believe it has any known physical side effects.

[pcgd]

actually, its effects are similar to steroids.

Andro is a natural suppliment. Just like Creatine. You have both of these in your body right now. Creatine releases water to your muscles allowing you to sustain action to the muscles for longer. Allowing you to work out longer, making you stronger. The long term effects of creatine are not really known because its use began in the 90s.

Andro becomes testosterone. Its in your body right now. Adding additional Andro will make your body produce more testosterone. Not nearly the levels of steroids, but its physcial positive effects and its negative effects are similar to that of andro in less severe forms. This is why Andro is banned in all competative sports up and down, baseball being the last one to make it illegal.

Anyway the moral is, D.A.R.E. to keep kids off drugs.

[shiznit1083]

Guys, you know what the most frustrating thing about this whole situation is? Bud Selig. He has had so many opportunities to put a positive stamp on the game, yet like Kurt Warner on sundays, he continually drops the ball. The All-Star game, DC Baseball, The Brewers, the Red Sox sale......you get the picture.

Something needed and needs to be done about the steroid issue in baseball. Selig's probably known about this for years, but he sweeps it under the rug like a dirty little secret. It's as if he's under the impression that if no one knows, then baseball wasnt tainted on his watch. But what he doesn't realize is he could have been remembered as the guy who cleaned up baseball.

Selig refuses to take any action and when he does act, he finds ways to screw things up. This could have been prevented a long time ago, but the commisioner of baseball is completely incompetent.

[OMMF]

Guys, you know what the most frustrating thing about this whole situation is? Bud Selig. He has had so many opportunities to put a positive stamp on the game, yet like Kurt Warner on sundays, he continually drops the ball. The All-Star game, DC Baseball, The Brewers, the Red Sox sale......you get the picture.

How was he supposed to fix that all-star game?

[CaolinaJoe]

Selig has done what he can for the moment about steriods in the Majors. The players union will not let anything else be done. Drug testing is part of the CBA, and it won't be changed until after the 2006 season. Selig is just a convinient target. If you want to look for blame look to the union that protects the players of the game but not the integrity.

[Saintsfan]

If anyone is looking for proof of what I was suggesting in another thread about attuitudes to race in baseball, I note with some interest that half the posts in this thread, a thread about Jason Giambi, not Barry Bonds, have been about Bonds.

Giambi has admitted to taking drugs, Bonds has not.

And back to my point, never mind what is written down, never mind rules, as far as natural justice is concerned how is taking performance enhancing drugs to maximise your performance not worse than betting on the game?

maybe it says a lot about Selig as Commish that he doesn't want to deal with this issue.

[OMMF]

If anyone is looking for proof of what I was suggesting in another thread about attuitudes to race in baseball, I note with some interest that half the posts in this thread, a thread about Jason Giambi, not Barry Bonds, have been about Bonds.

Giambi has admitted to taking drugs, Bonds has not.

Bonds admitted to it. He claims he didn't know what they were though.

[slapshot]

I think comparing steroids to gambling is comparing apples and oranges.

Taking "performance enhancing supplements" aside, hitting a pitched baseball is one of the hardest things to do. No amount of steroids is going to give someone 20/20 vision (unless their optical ones, and that's something else entirely). Steroids might make the person stronger and faster, but that person still has to adjust the timing of the swing to make contact with the ball. And it's not just making contact either. One has to adjust the level of the swing so the trajectory carries the ball over the fence, instead of just popping up.

Does taking the steroids increase the statistics of those taking them? Probably. Maybe it's the difference between a home run and a double. I don't know. The batter still has to swing the bat, the steroids aren't going to pinch hit for him.

Gambling is different. When it's known that you gamble on games, the integrity of everyone involved comes into question. How is anyone going to know that an error wasn't intentional, or that a batter is purposely swinging at bad pitches? And if it's your own team, the lineups are totally into question, because everyone's going to wonder if a lineup is set a certain way to throw the game.

Steroids might directly involve one person on a team. Gambling can directly involve the whole team.