Bonds Testifies he used Steroids

[See Red]

But Saintsfan, he said he unknowingly took them, and to some people, that's enough, I guess.

If I'm going to rub something on me that I know is undetectable or place drops under my tongue, I'm pretty sure I know what I am doing. Bonds saying that he did not know is BS...or BBS

Take your pick.

What do you mean by undetectable in this situation? It has nothing to do with anything. Bonds never placed any sort of drops under his tongue unless I missed somehting in that orginal article, which is possible. Bonds rubbed a cream which he says he was told was flaxyseed oil, sorry if I butchered the spelling on that. If Bonds knew they were steroids, ya think he would've had the trainer bring the stuff into the Giants clubhouse?

[pittunited]

What kinda creeps me out about the whole deal: the stuff Bonds was given as a masking agent is the same drug my wife takes to help her ovulate.

[See Red]

Here's a question you guys should be asking -- why do these "private hearings" keep getting leaked?  To me, it's as simple as them not having any sort of evidence, or anything credible, that they can charge Bonds with, so this may be the only way to ruin his credibility, which it clearly has.

My guess is that there's people out there interested in protecting the integrity of Major League Baseball -- not that it's important or anything.

Without leaking this testimony, the public might have never received verifiable evidence of steroid abuse in baseball. Sure, a lot of people suspected it, but with the leaked information it appears as sworn testimony -- certainly more credible than the suspicions of a skeptical public.

Should it come out more solidly that Bonds used steroids, baseball can find some way -- should it see fit -- to sanctify long-standing baseball records that could be tainted as a result of abuse.

But if protecting the reputation of a ballplayer like Giambi -- or ballplayers plural, should it come to that -- who admitted to cheating is what's wanted, then I guess it's a bad thing this information was leaked.

Regardless -- it's still supposed to be private stuff. The fact that they have to leak this sort of information to get it out to the public shows that even they don't think their case is strong enough to get any sort of conviction and get this stuff to the public the right way. Does it not make you wonder about how strong the case against Bonds is if they can't wait until after he's convicted to get this information out the right way?

Don't forget, the grand jury was convened not to try Barry Bonds, but to gather evidence in the indictment of BALCO's head. By testifying, Bonds was -- based on published reports -- told he would not face charges unless he perjured himself.

There's the opinion of his attorneys -- and likely himself and a portion of the public -- that this is some government attempt at smearing Bonds. Believe it if you will.

But the simple fact that they've apparently agreed to not charge him with illegal steroid use in exchange for his honest testimony shows they're not trying to build a case against him -- just BALCO.

Of course, I'm of the mind that Bonds' testimony actually helps him. Before there was just widespread suspicion that he's a user. Now we've got Bonds on the record saying he used something from BALCO, but he never knew what it was.

But since they're so sure he took it and they have all sorts of 'proof' that he did take steroids, isn't that basically saying "Admit you took steroids and we won't charge you."

It says, 'if he agreed to tell the truth'. According to these people, the truth to them is that Bonds took steroids and they have "things to prove it".

Am I off-base on that? Because that's the way I'm understanding this.

[Shizznick]

I think ESPN says it best...

Perception is everything: No one can prove whether he knew or didn't know, but that's incidental; the only detail that matters is that Bonds used. Even assuming he did it unknowingly, he used.

[gosioux76]

But since they're so sure he took it and they have all sorts of 'proof' that he did take steroids, isn't that basically saying "Admit you took steroids and we won't charge you."

It says, 'if he agreed to tell the truth'. According to these people, the truth to them is that Bonds took steroids and they have "things to prove it".

Am I off-base on that? Because that's the way I'm understanding this.

No, I don't see it as them asking to admit he took steroids. What they want is his truthful testimony regarding his connections to BALCO. If that includes admitting he used steroids provided by them, then that's what they want. But I would seriously doubt that a grand jury is on some Barry Bonds witch hunt -- though that's the story being told Bonds allies and Victor Conte. I've got a little more faith in the system than that.

Again, this grand jury was convened to investigate BALCO -- not Barry Bonds. It's the public that's going to roast Bonds and, more deservedly thus far, Giambi.

[pcgd]

But Saintsfan, he said he unknowingly took them, and to some people, that's enough, I guess.

If I'm going to rub something on me that I know is undetectable or place drops under my tongue, I'm pretty sure I know what I am doing. Bonds saying that he did not know is BS...or BBS

Take your pick.

What do you mean by undetectable in this situation? It has nothing to do with anything. Bonds never placed any sort of drops under his tongue unless I missed somehting in that orginal article, which is possible. Bonds rubbed a cream which he says he was told was flaxyseed oil, sorry if I butchered the spelling on that. If Bonds knew they were steroids, ya think he would've had the trainer bring the stuff into the Giants clubhouse?

I'm pretty sure he did take "the clear" and he was told it was flaxseed oil and that he took "the cream" and was told it was arthritis cream.

[omnivore]

I have a hard time believing that Bonds would knowing or unknowing take steroids, knowing it would come out at some point - with his father being dead and Willie Mays still being alive and talking to him.

I just don't think he was so passionate about breaking their records that he'd do that. That said, I think that more people are interested in defaming him anyway they can, not only because he's not affable - but because he's so close to Ruth's records and the like.

I still say he's a hitter that managed to do this regardless of what he got from anybody.

[JQK]

I have a hard time believing that Bonds would knowing or unknowing take steroids, knowing it would come out at some point - with his father being dead and Willie Mays still being alive and talking to him.

I just don't think he was so passionate about breaking their records that he'd do that. That said, I think that more people are interested in defaming him anyway they can, not only because he's not affable - but because he's so close to Ruth's records and the like.

I still say he's a hitter that managed to do this regardless of what he got from anybody.

Stop the hero-worship.

The man testified that he "unknowingly" took steroids.

Which means he took steroids

Now much like when Gary Sheffield said he "unknowingly" took steroids, i have a hard time believing that either of them didn't know what the stuff was.

Everyone that has been found to have taken the stuff should be banned from baseball and any and all records they have should be stripped.

Barry Used. This is how the story ends.

[Stampman]

I confess--I had steroids today...

But ....

It's okay.....

They help me....

to be able to....

breathe....

(and they're perscription--and they don't build up muscles...)

(Although they do affect my...

typing...)

[NJTank]

Well Bonds does not need them to help him breathe you its another story Stapman so that does not matter they do have a medical benefit to the very sick.

However Bonds took them for an edge to get stronger then he could naturally and by the rulkes set forth its illegal. Bonds used Steroids, and he knew what he was doing, come on this Anderson guy is at the heart of this he is Bonds friend since chilkdhood, he is the major dealer, whne Bonds broke the single season record he thanked him, he knew what he was doing come on, a top athleete like Bonds is not going to ask his trainer what this will do, what are the side effects?, please.

Bonds knew and he lied on the stand that he knew. There is no way in the world he did not know what he was taking was steroids.

[Stampman]

Well I'm not very sick, there are many worse off than I am that take them...

[IceCap]

It's over. It's done.

Every record Barry has is no longer legitimate.

Barry says he didn't know what he was taking? Bull. Barry doesn't eat anything without knowing exactly what is in it. He's not gonna start injecting himself, or rubbing a cream on himself, without knowing EXACTLY what it was.

It doesn't matter now. Wether you love him or hate him, it is now out.

Barry cheated.

my thoughts exactly

[JamesCraven]

And once again, JQK stirs the pot of contriversial knowledge.

The key word here is "unknowingly". That means he had no idea whatsoever about the product he used, much in the same way Gary Sheffield had earlier this year.

If anyone is guilty, it should be his personal trainer for giving him the stuff. Besides, did any steroid give him the power to hit 73 homers in 2001? I personally doubt that.

[DEAD!]

Bonds might be lying when he said he "unknowingly" took the steroid. When a guy gets caught, his only defense is that "I didn't know...." It's like a guy saying he slept with his best friend's girlfriend and says later "I didn't know she was your girlfriend" (BTW, There is no reference to Creamer whatsoever. Let's get that straight)

I have tried to give Bonds in benefit of the doubt, and perhaps still do. Bottom line is he took drugs whether unknowingly or not. He is responsible for what he puts into his body and the consequences should take care of itself. I think his records should stand and he should be in the hall of fame, but I also think the entire baseball world, (fans, owners, players, teammates, coaches, hall of famers) should lose all trust and respect for him in the process. The loss of respect and admiration from these people will be around longer than any of his records.

I also believe steroids gives you an advantage in hitting home runs. It's not all about bat speed and hand-eye coordination. You need muscles in your legs and arms to absorb the energy from the ball and give enough force to hit the ball over the wall. Think about the hammer throw and ask yourself, why are there no skinny people in that event?

[pcgd]

Weather he knew or didn't...the end result is HE TOOK STERIODS. He wasn't drugged, nobody held him on the ground and rubbed the cream on his body. He took what he knew to be proformance enhancing drugs, and they turned out to be illegal steroids.

And when I say they were proformance enhancing, what else do you call them. He wanted an edge. He went to a trainer who tested his blood, and gave him drugs and supplements to enhance his proformance. If he knew they were steroids or not, he still took them. I still don't believe he'd say 'whatever' if he was putting that much care into his body. For him to test his blood to see what its lacking, and then just say "whatever" to the drugs he's given? As paranoid as he is? Then the steroid test he took with anderson because he didn't trust MLB, but he trusts "you're negative?" Just doesn't all add up to me.

He could have been the greatest player ever in my eyes, even though I hate him, and I always respected what he did on the field. It'll be tainted now.

[paynomind]

What completely flaberghasts me is not the fools who try to come to Barry's defence, but the talkign heads who say, "Quit comparing this to Pete Rose. Plenty of people take steriods, Rose is the only one who bet on the game."

WHAT?!?!

Dude.. steroids alter individual's output, and thereby change the outcome of the game! Betting is just a gamble, a game that can become a disease and a personal defect. Rose has never bet AGAINST his own team. He never tanked a game on purpose. While, what Bonds did changes the game and puts records in question.

This is unfathomable,a nd whether he knew it or not, he should be banned.

Also, while he may not have been told exactly what each cream was, he knew they were wrong and secretive. He never told anyone about them. WHy never tell about something that isnt wrong? This is a man who was renouned for knowing the exact content of every meal, the preceise amount of water he drank every day. But he just smeared some cream on his muscles? Bullsheeeet.

Guilty.

Ban him.

[IceCap]

i dont see the pro barry argument. his records were a result of steroide use, weather he knew what he was taking or not. hence all of his records should be erased. i have no respect for someone who did what he did.

[jkrdevil]

Dude.. steroids alter individual's output, and thereby change the outcome of the game! Betting is just a gamble, a game that can become a disease and a personal defect. Rose has never bet AGAINST his own team. He never tanked a game on purpose. While, what Bonds did changes the game and puts records in question.

This is unfathomable,a nd whether he knew it or not, he should be banned.

Well, why I agree with you on the point that steriods is cheating and that Bonds should be banned, I think betting on your team as manager is worse. Why Rose may have never tanked a game, he might have used his bullpen differently one game knowing he was going to bet on the reds the next day. Thus, when he didn't bet it was a bet against his team.

But this isn't about Rose.

I find it hard to belive that Bonds knew nothing about what he was givin. Your telling me that Anderson a long-time friend of Bonds never told Barry anything but yet he told Giambi everthing after meeting in 2 weeks. I doubt that. Bonds better worry because if Anderson deals they will be going after Barry for perjury charges.

Also, did anyone else see the Conte interview. I has to have a deal in place already. If not he is a complete idiot and went on the record in saying he gave out illegal drugs, in which he knew they were illegal, while he is waiting for his trail in which he is charged with distributing illegal drugs. That interview can be used against him in court.

[JQK]

My judgement if i were Commissioner: Barry Bonds and Jason Giambi are to be banned from the game of baseball for life, and any records owned by either Barry Bonds or Jason Giambi that were obtained in the last three seasons are to be forfeited.

Baseball needs to be controlled by the Commissioner again, not the Players Union. It's time for Bud to take a stand.

[slapshot]

You can't just erase the records, it brings up too many questions...

So what do you do with the stats?

Do you still say that Bonds hit 73 home runs, but does not hold the record?

What if their homeruns were game-winning RBI?

How do you determine which homeruns or GWRBI were directly resulted from steroids?

Do you re-adjust team records for those that lost based on those GWRBI?

It's not the Olympics where teams can get issued appropriate medals months after the fact.

Maybe there can be an asterisk next to the records. You can't take away the fact that the homeruns were hit. You can only re-define the record's parameters.