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Karmanos concedes season is over.


CaolinaJoe

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karmanos is a bigger villain than bettman, selig, satan, dracula (the one played by frank langella in the seventies, cuz that's terrible), and george hamilton's dermatologist combined.

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The owners are right on this one.....

If the league doesn't come up with some type of shared revenue system with controls on costs they will NEVER survive and grow.

The players just don't get it, they don't play in the NFL where even the weakest teams are successful. I don't know what CBC and ESPN pay for their hockey packages, but come on they can't even be a quarter of the billions that the NFL gets from ABC, CBS, FOX and ESPN. The players need to go backward a couple steps to move the game forward plain and simple. The players rode an artificial wave of revenue increases based soley off of expansion fees. Unless the NHL wants to keep adding franchises there is not a lot of money out there to the teams to spend.

I'm not saying the owners are blameless, some of them took the expansion money and inflated salaries, but the players have grown accustomed to the bloated pay and refuse to look at the economics of the game.

You can look at the issues from both sides but simply put the league will not survive if they follow the baseball mold with the rich getting richer and the rest of the leagues teams making a solitary run at a division once every 10 years or so. And Hockey isn't well like enough in enough parts of the USA to survive that type of system the way baseball is. People will go to a Pirates game even when they know the team has no chance in hell of going anywhere because part of it is the experience of a nice summer evening and watching the "American Pastime". In the middle of February when it is 8 degrees outside the same fans are not going to drag themselves to a Penguins game when their roster is an AHL equivalent against the Red Wings and their 7 future Hall of Famers.

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All I can say is that Karmanos is a dumbass who is right.

But one thing: Was it really necessary for him to say this? I mean, haven't we all known (including the NHLPA and the owners) that this was the case since about 1999?

Get some rest, NHL. Take 200 aspirin and call me next January when one of your sides decides to cave in.

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Just a BGO, folks. Blinding Glimpse of the Obvious. The 2004-05 season was hosed once they passed the point where the league couldn't get in 40 regular season games.

And while I'm not a Karmanos fan either, he's right in the sense that the owners, while idiots by and large, are at a point where they can't survive without major concessions from the players.

The owners were plied with expansion money and at last got a shot at the big time - network television dollars. They spent it and then some on talent, hoping they could promote the game and really make it viable. They've for the most part failed, and now its time for everyone to come back down to Earth.

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Karmanos bought the Whalers in 1993. The team was losing $1 Million a month.

Raleigh is the second fastest growing market of any NHL City per capita.

The Hurricanes are still losing money.

Pete, there are still PLENTY of angry hockey fans in Hatrford waiting for you to apologize!!!!

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karmanos is a bigger villain than bettman, selig, satan, dracula (the one played by frank langella in the seventies, cuz that's terrible), and george hamilton's dermatologist combined.

You left out Pat Summit!

i dont see how you can say that. karmanos said that he wouldnt mind if even next season was also scrapped if the problems could be totally resolved. what he said was that if they come back next season or even this season and the same problems are still there then nothing has been solved and the same problems hang over the heads of the NHL, but if they took the time to solve the problems then the NHL could possibly come back as one of the four major sports. at least thats what i got out of it

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I saw this coming a while ago. And I am so pissed, it hurts.

There was never any intention on the part of the owners to resolve this at all. I mean, of course they would end the lockout if the players union conceded to EVERYTHING. But this was never going to happen, because what the owners wanted was unreasonable. You cannot impose a salary cap immediately. To the best of my knowledge, that was the plan. How do you manage that? Anyway, the players offered to cut their salaries by 24% across the board, as well as a luxury tax. Very fair compromise, and more of an effort than the owners had made. It was shot down faster than a handicapped duck. The owners want the impasse. They want to be able to win the PR war also. This is what will happen.

There will be no hockey this year, obviously. None for 2005-2006 either. The impasse will be called in early 2006. When the impasse is called, the owners will end the lockout, and of course the players will respond with a strike. The owners will then terminate the contracts of every player in the league and start over with salaries. You can bet that they will save much more than the 24% the players were willing to pony up. I would be willing to bet that when the "new NHL" arrives, the average salary will drop by at least half, maybe more.

After this insanity, after the players are fired, and the owners sweep it all under the rug, the NHL will be active for the 2006-2007 season. They will bill it as the "new beginning" or some crap like that. And we fans will be so starved for NHL hockey at that point, we will accept it. There's your PR victory.

The players are so getting screwed on this one, it hurts. The only people that are getting screwed more are the fans. The worst part is, the owners could have prevented this. I hold the belief that of all the major sports, the NHL has the most loyal, compassionate, down to earth players. They could have made the money that they were losing back. The players would have taken that paycut to save the league before the lockout even began. They also could contract. We never needed 30 teams. And even if 30 teams were okay, more of them need to be Canadian. :flagcanada:

Sorry for the rant. It's late, and I am so very bitter. Good night all. :smileyusa:

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The 24% rollback was like sticking a finger in a bullet wound to stop the bleeding. It would slow it down for a little, but you would still bleed out and die if you don't get a real doctor and fix it. Who knows, if you stand arouns long enough with your finger in the hole bleeding, eventually even the doctor won't be able to save you.

If anyone was looking for a PR victory it was the players. If anyone had no intenetion of giving in it's the players. The pressure to negotiate is on them. They are the ones who are locked out. The owners have said all along what they wanted, and gave 6 plans, not one. They gave their plans back in August, not December. Don't get me wrong, they are both wrong. But I blame the players more than the owners.

Go tell your boss that 74% of all his revenue should go to payroll and see how long you have a job. Whether you love the game or not, it is a business. The men who own these teams are entitled to make some money, and the player need to realize that their sport doesn't generate the same funds as other sports. A cap would already have been settled if it wasn't for the top 10-15% of the fatcat players fighting it.

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I agree, the 24% pay cut is an extremely temporary solution.

It's hard to feel sorry for owners who need a cap because they can't control their own spending, but the NHL needs it badly because they have too many teams in markets that just can't compete. It's like baseball, but even worse.

On the other hand, the players aren't thinking realistically, either. They have an attitude that the owners need them more than they need the owners, and they couldn't be more wrong. The owners are a bunch of guys who made billions of dollars, then bought hockey teams. The players have no alternative source of income that could approach the millions they make as hockey players. And the whole attitude that a salary cap is un-American, that you wouldn't ask an accountant to have a cap is just so stupid. These guys need to realize they make exorbitant salaries PLAYING A GAME!! It is not a traditional business, they are lucky as hell that they can earn a living like they do and make some concessions to keep the league viable. It is so frustrating to watch crap like this for the rest of us who work at real jobs.

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Baseball could be worse off than hockey. The difference is TV $'s, merchandise $'s, some of the teams are self sustaining business industries(Yankees & Red Sox come to mind)and the fact that almost everyone has played baseball or softball as a kid. The average person can relate to the game, in any area.

Hockey hasn't entrenched itself in American culture the way other sports have. While canadians may balk at that, that is what it will take for hockey to be the way the players envision it.

In a sense, only a few cities are even really affected by the lock out. All the Canadian cities have alternatives in minors and juniors hockey, the die hard fan is getting his fix. But the die-hards don't pay the bills. It's the band wagon, tag-a-long, business owner who buys a suite, salesman taking a client to a game, father showing his kids what he loved, let's do something different on saturday night fan that does all that. Those people who could be turned into a diehard is now taking his entertainment dollar and seeing bad movies, buying Ashlee Simpson cd's, and spending time with his family.

The player are cutting their own throats and can't see it. How many owners have made their fortune from hockey? How many owners is hockey their main source of income? How many owners would even say their team is their #1 business? How many own teams just for the loss to help offset taxes?

All of these owners are businessmen. They get to where they are by running companies into the ground. They are million and billionaires who are successes in the business world. They know what it takes to make a penny and have a business succeed. From a business standpoint they know what to do, hockey standpoint could be debated on some teams. So obviously the NHL was in serious trouble or the wouldn't risk destroying their league.

The owners have something to lose, and apparently have been for years. The players have everything to lose and just can't see it. Because the head that holds the eyes, all the top rung players with big contracts, won't tell the body. Think of it like the NHLPA Leaders are George Bush, and the NHLPA average member is the american public. Goodenow is telling them that a salary cap is a WMD that must fought and destroyed. In the end there is no WMD and all of this could have been avoid, and 2 seasons not KIA'd.

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The owners have something to lose, and apparently have been for years. The players have everything to lose and just can't see it. Because the head that holds the eyes, all the top rung players with big contracts, won't tell the body. Think of it like the NHLPA Leaders are George Bush, and the NHLPA average member is the american public. Goodenow is telling them that a salary cap is a WMD that must fought and destroyed. In the end there is no WMD and all of this could have been avoid, and 2 seasons not KIA'd.

:lol:

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