Expansion game! Expansion game!

[GeneralW91]

Why San Diego? The Sports Arena only seats 14k, and NO basketball team has ever survived there.

[winters in buffalo]

Why San Diego? The Sports Arena only seats 14k, and NO basketball team has ever survived there.

I didn't take into account history or an arena, only the market size and competition with other sports.

You can build a new building, and plenty of teams are doing well in places that teams had previously failed.

[GeneralW91]

You can build a new building, and plenty of teams are doing well in places that teams had previously failed.

True.

[Schoonerville]

NHL

1. San Diego

2. Houston

I Heard somewhere that the NHL's next place to expand would be Houston(i doubt they would expand though). No More southern teams. Bring back the jets

[Cartabago]

These will probably suck..

NFL: LA

MLB: Somewhere NW (Portland, Vancouver, or somewhere in AB) The Mariners are the only team up there and it looks like there could be room for another franchise there.

NHL: Yeah, Houston. Winnipeg would be nice, also.

NBA: Don't really care about the NBA, but I'd say St. Louis. It's worthy of being a 4-sport city.

[random]

This is what i would do...

NFL: Vegas, the NFL is by far the most successful league, so why not take a chance on vegas. Otherwise, LA or San Antonio

MLB: I'd like to see a latin american team. Monterrey seems like a good choice. I also think the south needs a second team. Charlotte or Hampton Roads seem to be good choices

NHL: Somewhere traditional Hamilton, Hartford, Winnipeg, Quebec

NBA: Louisville and Kansas City have great basketball fans, but i think Pittsburgh, only because i want to see how they incorporate black and gold into the logo

[Gary]

4-I think we need to look at cities which would become 1 team towns with a first calss facility and hotels (also for media) and accomodating airports, like San Antonio. A large metro area without a pro team and a popular college team. Las Vegas is ripe for any pro sport, but MLS!

Have you ever heard of the San Antonio Spurs?

[jamesjduncan]

MLB - I'm guessing Vegas. Would like to see one in Portland, but the money is in LV. All the major sports want into Vegas, they are waiting for someone to pull the trigger, they don't want to be the "first" in.

NFL - Mexico City. They draw well over 100,000 for preseason Cowboys games. The stadium and fanbase are already there. LA goes without saying. The NFL would definitely do two here.

NBA - I'm not a basketball guy, so I really don't know. Maybe Pittsburgh?

NHL - Several options here. Winnipeg is an obvious choice. Hamilton is a good one as well. I would hope that the NHL would move teams first though. 30 is way, way too many. Drop it to 24, move some to Canada, hang Bettman and Goodenow in effigy.

[Cashcleaner]

NHL - Several options here. Winnipeg is an obvious choice. Hamilton is a good one as well. I would hope that the NHL would move teams first though. 30 is way, way too many. Drop it to 24, move some to Canada, hang Bettman and Goodenow in effigy

I think 30 teams is fine for the NHL, but I'll readily agree that moving some teams (hopefully more north) would help appease the somewhat jaded fan-base. Maybe if a new league does come along, there might be interest in creating 3 conferences of ten teams and play with a different tourney set-up. Just a thought, but I'll admit there is little wrong with the organisation of divisions as it is now.

[oz615]

I'll give you another city and leaugu that nobody mention in this thread and that's MLB in Buffalo,because of the fact that Dunn Tire Park can be converted MLB capacity

with that said here's what i like to see

NFL: Los Angeles, maybe Orlando

NBA:St Louis

MLB:as i just mention,Buffalo

NHL:as mention in an ealier post,Milwaukee

[marlinfan]

Sacramento is ready if need be.  Raley Field (the home for the AAA RiverCats) was built to ready for expansion if need be to lure an MLB team.

yep, ive got a copy of the stadium plans at work, if this were to happen

Could you post a pic? Or would that be a no-no.

[yh]

"Think:  St. Louis.  While Louisville has tradition, St. Louis has money and someone (Kronke) who is still pursuing a team."

Stan Kronke already owns an NBA team.

It's called the Denver Nuggets.

No, Stan Kroenke owns the Nuggets.

Stan Kronke is a rich guy in St Louis no one has heard of. Yet.

And it's Bill Laurie, Stan Kroenke's brother-in-law who is pursuing an NBA franchise for St. Louis. He presently owns the Blues and the Savvis Center.

Here's my thoughts -

NFL: While I don't foresee expansion or even relocation in the next several years, if I had to pick the next two markets I'd say a third (modern era) shot for L.A. is a slam dunk and I'd venture to guess that San Antonio would get a shot given their population base and relatively "safe" distance from the two existing Texas markets. This would be conditioned of course on the Alamodome having the ability to be upgraded to meet the present-day standards expected of an NFL caliber stadium.

MLB: Again, I don't see any immediate, serious prospect for either relocation or expansion, but if I were to pick the next two markets I'd say Las Vegas would get a shot. As for a second location, I'd say Nashville would be a good choice. The mid-south region really isn't well represented on the MLB front (unless you consider Cincinnatti part of that region) and Nashville has a good population and economic base.

NBA: This is probably the league with the best prospect for adding a pair of teams within the next 5 years. I'd say Louisville is the strongest contender here. They came very close with the Hornets and Grizzlies and I think the market would support the team. Its proximity to Cincinnati, another B-ball hotbed, helps its cause. Kansas City would be my next pick. This is a community committed to bringing a major league winter sport to the region and with hockey's present volatility and very poor television ratings, I think the smart money bets on basketball being the smarter choice for a primary Sprint Center tenant.

NHL: I don't see any expansion prospects here but certainly some relocation prospects. High on the list here is Oklahoma City - a good sized market (metro population of 1 million) with a nice, stable economic base and a very strong hockey heritage. The OKC region was actually settled by Canadians and there's a lot of Canadian heritage remaining in the area. OKC's minor league hockey team regularly draws crowds in excess of 10,000 and that's for A+/AA level hockey. The Oklahoma City region is ready and eager for a major league franchise and this would be the best choice, especially since they have a 20,000 seat, NHL-ready arena that was completed just two years ago. A regional rivalry with Dallas would be great for both franchises. A second market I'd consider strong would be Portland. It's been a good junior hockey market; it would have strong backing from Nike I presume and it would bring the rest of the league a bit closer to its most northwestern franchise Vancouver.

[jkrdevil]

A few things,

1. The NFL will probably not expand to Toronto. Let's say the NFL puts an expansion team in LA and needs another team. I don't think Toronto is a choice of there. And it's not because of the CFL. The NFL could care less about the CFL. I don't think the NFL wants to go into Canada, I don't think the NFL wants to deal with any economical issues of a team in Canada that other leagues have faced. Toronto would be the best Canadian city for the NFl but I just don't think they want to go to Canada in general.

2. The NHL will never return to Hartford. The reason being is the the Boston Bruins, New York Rangers, New York Islanders, and to a lesser extent the Devils will all try to block a team there. It's too many teams trying to block for a team to be placed there.

3. Winnipeg will not get a team. I don't think the NHL wants to go back there. When I hear people who are in the know about the league talk about relocation Winnipeg isn't metioned. The only people who mention it is the city and the Winnipeg fans. The Jets move and they are never comiming back, it's time to move on.

Those are my guesses on popular choices by other board members on who won't be getting teams. I'm almost 100% sure on Hartford and about 75% on the others. As for as possible expansion, I think all the leagues are maxed out talent wise where expansion would only hurt in the long run. Maybe the NFL will expand to LA but that will probably be relocation.

[Lee.]

A few things,

1. The NFL will probably not expand to Toronto. Let's say the NFL puts an expansion team in LA and needs another team. I don't think Toronto is a choice of there. And it's not because of the CFL. The NFL could care less about the CFL. I don't think the NFL wants to go into Canada, I don't think the NFL wants to deal with any economical issues of a team in Canada that other leagues have faced. Toronto would be the best Canadian city for the NFl but I just don't think they want to go to Canada in general.

2. The NHL will never return to Hartford. The reason being is the the Boston Bruins, New York Rangers, New York Islanders, and to a lesser extent the Devils will all try to block a team there. It's too many teams trying to block for a team to be placed there.

3. Winnipeg will not get a team. I don't think the NHL wants to go back there. When I hear people who are in the know about the league talk about relocation Winnipeg isn't metioned. The only people who mention it is the city and the Winnipeg fans. The Jets move and they are never comiming back, it's time to move on.

Those are my guesses on popular choices by other board members on who won't be getting teams. I'm almost 100% sure on Hartford and about 75% on the others. As for as possible expansion, I think all the leagues are maxed out talent wise where expansion would only hurt in the long run. Maybe the NFL will expand to LA but that will probably be relocation.

The NFL will never expand to Toronto. As a league, the NFl has too much invested in the CFL at this point, and hoenstly, SkyDome is too small for an NFL franchise.

The NHL and Winnipeg. As a Winnipegger, I don't think it'll ever happen again. If a new CBA makes it easier for small Canadian markets to survive, it makes it even easier for southern US markets to survive, especially considering the exchange rates. For the record, it was apparently Tampa that was considering moving here last season, but what with them winning the Cup and all, that idea got shelved in a hurry.

In the case of the NHl though, if they really want 30 teams, make it three 10-team circuits, each tiered with the best 10 in the elite league, bottom 10 in the bottom league. Each year, worst two teams in the elite move down, top two teams in the middle move up, as I believe happens in European soccer (someone correct me if I'm wrong). It's the best thing to do for that current abortion called the NHL.

[Phil]

3. Winnipeg will not get a team. I don't think the NHL wants to go back there. When I hear people who are in the know about the league talk about relocation Winnipeg isn't metioned. The only people who mention it is the city and the Winnipeg fans. The Jets move and they are never comiming back, it's time to move on.

The NHL and Winnipeg. As a Winnipegger, I don't think it'll ever happen again. If a new CBA makes it easier for small Canadian markets to survive, it makes it even easier for southern US markets to survive, especially considering the exchange rates. For the record, it was apparently Tampa that was considering moving here last season, but what with them winning the Cup and all, that idea got shelved in a hurry.

The views expressed in the preceding post are of Lamicus do not necessarily reflect the views of Winnipeg.

The league doesn't mention Winnipeg in relocation talks because the league is still embarrassed that Phoenix didn't work out for them.

Case in point: Two years ago, in a conference call with Teemu Selanne and several members of the hockey press, Winnipeg came up. Teemu starts singing the praise of Winnipeg as a hockey city, and in short order, the NHL cuts off the conference call.

Winnipeg can work because Winnipeggers want it to work. Winnipeg as a city is turning a corner, and the growth rate is increasing. What was once a stagnant city decaying rapidly has be infused with a renewed sense of vitality, and there is tangible evidence to that end. Research shows popular opinion among Winnipeggers of the future of the city is improving, the best it's been in a long time.

If population growth rates stay at an optimistic but not unrealistic rate of 7.5%, Winnipeg should pass the million-mark before this decade's end.

Winnipeg has a brand new arena that is small for NHL rinks, but hey, either you have 13,000 in a 22,000 seat facility in Florida or you have 13,000 in a packed house in Winnipeg.

In addition, the NHL has now been forced to realize that the big TV contracts are not coming, especially once the league resumes play, and finds out that the average American wasn't mourning the loss of something to do on Saturday night. This benefits Winnipeg, in that it reduces the influence of being a big TV market.

Lamicus does make a good point about the lockout's effects. If the owners carry the day, it will improve conditions everywhere. However, it will at the very least make Winnipeg a viable option. Even in the NFL, North America's most successful sports organization, relocation is not altogether unknown.

It's not an easy issue, but it's not an impossible one either.

[Brian in Boston]

Providence RI

Norfolk VA

Las Vegas NV

Austin TX

Lousiville, KY

Each of these cities is bigger than cities that already have at least 1 team: Jacksonville(1), Buffalo(2), Salt Lake City(1), Raleigh(1) and of course, Green Bay(1).

Actually, of the cities you've listed, Jacksonville, Florida has the largest municipal population: 735,617. The breakdown by municipal population is as follows...

1) Jacksonville - 735,617

2) Austin - 656,562

3) Las Vegas - 478,434

4) Buffalo - 292,648

5) Raleigh - 276,093

6) Louisville - 256,231

7) Norfolk - 234,403

8) Salt Lake City - 181,743

9) Providence - 175,901

10) Green Bay - 102,313

Based on municipal (city) population, Providence isn't bigger than Jacksonville, Buffalo, Raleigh or Salt Lake City. Norfolk and Louisville aren't bigger than Jacksonville, Buffalo or Raleigh. Las Vegas and Austin are bigger than every city listed except Jacksonville.

Now, when considering Metropolitan Statistical Area population, things change.

The breakdown by MSA population is...

1) Norfolk - 1,569,541

2) Las Vegas - 1,563,282

3) Salt Lake City - 1,333,914

4) Austin - 1,249,763

5) Providence - 1,188,613

6) Raleigh - 1,187,941

7) Buffalo - 1,170,111

8) Jacksonville - 1,100,491

9) Louisville - 1,025,598

10) Green Bay - 226,778

Las Vegas and Austin prove to have both significant municipal and metro area populations. The Norfolk MSA jumps to the top of the list in population, but suffers from the lack of a "core" host city of significant size. Providence jumps into the "Top Five" MSAs amongst the markets you chose to compare, but its proximity to the much larger city (and MSA) of Boston dooms its chances of ever landing a major professional sports franchise. As for Louisville, the market's best argument for being a future major professional expansion site is the fact that the city's combined population with Jefferson County, since the two governmental entities merged operations, is 700,000.

Bottom line? Realistically, only Las Vegas strikes me as enjoying both the core-city and regional population bases - as well as distance from an existing major-league market - to attract serious expansion attention in the future.

[Lee.]

3. Winnipeg will not get a team. I don't think the NHL wants to go back there. When I hear people who are in the know about the league talk about relocation Winnipeg isn't metioned. The only people who mention it is the city and the Winnipeg fans. The Jets move and they are never comiming back, it's time to move on.

The NHL and Winnipeg. As a Winnipegger, I don't think it'll ever happen again. If a new CBA makes it easier for small Canadian markets to survive, it makes it even easier for southern US markets to survive, especially considering the exchange rates. For the record, it was apparently Tampa that was considering moving here last season, but what with them winning the Cup and all, that idea got shelved in a hurry.

The views expressed in the preceding post are of Lamicus do not necessarily reflect the views of Winnipeg.

The league doesn't mention Winnipeg in relocation talks because the league is still embarrassed that Phoenix didn't work out for them.

Case in point: Two years ago, in a conference call with Teemu Selanne and several members of the hockey press, Winnipeg came up. Teemu starts singing the praise of Winnipeg as a hockey city, and in short order, the NHL cuts off the conference call.

Winnipeg can work because Winnipeggers want it to work. Winnipeg as a city is turning a corner, and the growth rate is increasing. What was once a stagnant city decaying rapidly has be infused with a renewed sense of vitality, and there is tangible evidence to that end. Research shows popular opinion among Winnipeggers of the future of the city is improving, the best it's been in a long time.

If population growth rates stay at an optimistic but not unrealistic rate of 7.5%, Winnipeg should pass the million-mark before this decade's end.

Winnipeg has a brand new arena that is small for NHL rinks, but hey, either you have 13,000 in a 22,000 seat facility in Florida or you have 13,000 in a packed house in Winnipeg.

In addition, the NHL has now been forced to realize that the big TV contracts are not coming, especially once the league resumes play, and finds out that the average American wasn't mourning the loss of something to do on Saturday night. This benefits Winnipeg, in that it reduces the influence of being a big TV market.

Lamicus does make a good point about the lockout's effects. If the owners carry the day, it will improve conditions everywhere. However, it will at the very least make Winnipeg a viable option. Even in the NFL, North America's most successful sports organization, relocation is not altogether unknown.

It's not an easy issue, but it's not an impossible one either.

Just keep in mind, young Philip, that I'm a "glass half empty" kinda guy. I'll believe it when I see it.

Yes, our little city is doing leaps and bounds over what it was 5 years ago. But we as a city still have such low self esteem and anti-business laws that an NHL franchise returning is, at this point, a wonderful dream, much like falling asleep in a field of poppies. Problem is, when Winnipeggers wake up from said dreams, our asses are usually killing us.

[TBGKon]

NFL: The NFL probably wont expand anymore, so these will be through relocation. The only real one I can think of would be LA. Orlando wouldnt work, Florida already has 3 teams. Oklahoma City could be a dark horse for the NFL, that state loves their football, but would they love the OU Sooners more???

NBA: I'd have to say go to a basketball hotbed. First and foremost, Louisville. Louisville needs b-ball more than anything (i think). and secondly, either KC or STL, but not both. Both cities have good arenas and could use the team.

MLB: Hmmmm...this is a tough one. No expansion here...all relocation. I can possibly see the A's moving to Sacramento, but not sure. Vancouver may work too. I'm stumped.

NHL: Keep the 30 teams, just re-shuffle what you have. Move a team to Houston, Winnipeg, Kansas City, and Portland and I'm all OK w/ that

[BBTV]

NFL - L.A.

NHL - Seattle

NBA - Don't really care

MLB - Philadelphia - A new team might be the only way to get the Phillies to wise up or lose what's left of their fans.

Actually, I think Philadelphia could support two pro teams in basketball or baseball. Slap a team in a stadium in the Northeast and you'd have a great fanbase and instant rivalries.

[Gary]

The league doesn't mention Winnipeg in relocation talks because the league is still embarrassed that Phoenix didn't work out for them.

WHOA WHOA WHOA, hang on there, sounds like sour apples here, Phoenix has a new arena, a solid fan base, and somewhat sometimes good hockey and you can actually tell me that Phoenix was a failure. That my friend offends me. You might as well talk to the many radio listeners who call me asking me for updates on hockey talk because they miss their hockey, how they want it back. Yes many of these people are from the East Coast. But the point is, because they leave Winnipeg they are automatically a failure?