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advice on usage of a logo (legal or otherwise)


Grish

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Guys,

I need some input on if I have a claim or not.

I created a logo for my wife's ex company. Since she left over some ethical reasons, I wrote the owner notifying him to stop using the logo I gave permission to.

He claims now that he created it, and his office gave input (which are both outright lies). He further stated that I don't have any rights involved in the logo since he offered payment to me and I told him not worry about it, but gave him permission to use it, in addition to "his office creating the logo".

In the second letter I clearly stated that I retained ownership and only allowed him use. We never signed a contract nor did we ever discuss ownership as be changed. Secondly, he and his office offered only one request which was to change the city name to Washington State, otherwise the logo was presented to him fully complete.

Do I have a case or is it a lost hope the I can get him to stop using my work? FYI, his only witness to our conversation was his brother who also works for him, nothing has been in writing.

"Try not to have a good time ... This is supposed to be educational."

- Charles Schulz

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in your initial conversation did you give him verbal approval to use the logo, but no terms in which to halt the use of the logo?

without any sort of contract, you probably don't have a case. as a designer, a contract is your best friend. if you would like, i can e-mail you the form i use for every project i do.

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in your initial conversation did you give him verbal approval to use the logo, but no terms in which to halt the use of the logo?

without any sort of contract, you probably don't have a case. as a designer, a contract is your best friend. if you would like, i can e-mail you the form i use for every project i do.

Without a contract wouldn't that make the company the one at risk of losing the logo?

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Chris Creamer
Founder/Editor, SportsLogos.Net

 

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Since NOTHING is in writing and the company has used the logo for sometime now without complaint, you have no or little case. Ownership is 90% of the law, and it seems to me that this company does own it. You cant let someone "borrow" a logo.

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Joel,

A copy of the contract would be great. I will from this point make sure I spell out the terms.

-----------

What really concerns me is that he claims him and I worked on this together, and that never happened. He also claims I spoke in the office about it, and that never happened. And he claims I did it to help my wife at work, well she no longer works there so it is no longer helping her at work...

-----------

sorry this is just a thorn in my side issue, the guy is less then honest.

"Try not to have a good time ... This is supposed to be educational."

- Charles Schulz

viks.jpg

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Wow, this is a very imformative thread.

I always thought as long as the work is original to the creator and not copied from another source and exists in some tangible manner, the creator would be covered in cases like this (at least that's how it is with music).

On January 16, 2013 at 3:49 PM, NJTank said:

Btw this is old hat for Notre Dame. Knits Rockne made up George Tip's death bed speech.

 

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ok, so if you agree to allow a company permission you lose the right to revoke that at any time, so permission and ownership are the same?

I am just trying to get a grasp on all this....before I spend to much time on the guy.

"Try not to have a good time ... This is supposed to be educational."

- Charles Schulz

viks.jpg

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also, hobogrish, pm me your email address so i can send you a pdf version of my contract/estimate form.

i can do the same for anyone that might need it. it's a very good resource to have, just ask creamer.

Yup, joel's form helped land me the biggest paying job i've ever had...

Thanks joel :D

---

Chris Creamer
Founder/Editor, SportsLogos.Net

 

"The Mothership" News Facebook X/Twitter Instagram

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From legal-ease I have read concerning intellectual rights to designs I think the company now "owns" the logo.

A contract doesn't necessarily need to be in writing. A verbal contract is still binding and the fact that you created the work for the company and turned it over to them and they then used it constitutes ownership on their part....I base this on nothing more than past readings of similar incidents "published" in various forms throughout my career....it by no means is "law" so to speak...just a hunch.

Anyhoo, if you didn't have an agreement that the mark's ownership rights would not transfer to the company upon presentation then I don't think you have any grounds for ownership rights.

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ok, so if you agree to allow a company permission you lose the right to revoke that at any time, so permission and ownership are the same?

I am just trying to get a grasp on all this....before I spend to much time on the guy.

exactly. once you hand over the artwork you were contracted to do, it becomes the property of the buyer.

same thing, in this case, if i'm not mistaken, except no money ever switched hands.

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I do believe you are hooped (or as some people say at work "pooched")

But like all such events you can learn from them, I believe you have...

Comic Sans walks into a bar, and the bartender says, "Sorry, we don't serve your type here."

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If the following is true, than he owns the rights to the logo in this incident:

He further stated that I don't have any rights involved in the logo since he offered payment to me and I told him not worry about it,

If the client made intentions to pay and you told him not to worry about it, than the logo could be perceived as charitable works in which case he would now own the rights to use the images.

Someone else said.... unless you had a contract with the specific terms of usage of stoppage and usage you are SOOL.

On a side note of similar relations....

I have done some work for the Seahawks in the past, some of my jobs have been paying jobs, and other jobs I did (such as the downloadable wallpapers) I did for free, mostly because what they had before was so horrible that as a fan of the team I couldnt stand to see them...

Well 2 years ago in the spring I designed one of the wallpapers with the schedule on it and sent it off to them to use and in my contact I stated that it was for use on the website in the downloads section.

Well come football season, I flew out to Seattle and am standing on the sidelines during pregame and I happen to see one of the new Souveneir Collectors Cups in the first row of seats... so I ask to look at it, and when I turn it around... sure enough there is my design for the Schedule on it..

I was flattered at first, then kind of pissed....

The wallpaper schedule designs were given for free with the intent to be available for all fans to download off of their site. Had I known that one of their marketing guys (whom I wasnt accquainted with) was going to use it to slap on some Aramark Soda Cups and charge $6 a shot for them, I probably would have written up a contract and asked to get paid.

Whereas some might say the NFL owns the rights to the team logos and marks... this is very true... but all of the other elements of the design and the concept as a whole would have been my IP had I writted up a contract.

Now don't get me wrong... I have built some great relationships with people in the Seahawks Organization and I get taken care of by them.... so I didn't make a big deal out of it... although in retrospect maybe I should have.

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If the following is true, than he owns the rights to the logo in this incident:
He further stated that I don't have any rights involved in the logo since he offered payment to me and I told him not worry about it,

If the client made intentions to pay and you told him not to worry about it, than the logo could be perceived as charitable works in which case he would now own the rights to use the images.

Someone else said.... unless you had a contract with the specific terms of usage of stoppage and usage you are SOOL.

On a side note of similar relations....

I have done some work for the Seahawks in the past, some of my jobs have been paying jobs, and other jobs I did (such as the downloadable wallpapers) I did for free, mostly because what they had before was so horrible that as a fan of the team I couldnt stand to see them...

Well 2 years ago in the spring I designed one of the wallpapers with the schedule on it and sent it off to them to use and in my contact I stated that it was for use on the website in the downloads section.

Well come football season, I flew out to Seattle and am standing on the sidelines during pregame and I happen to see one of the new Souveneir Collectors Cups in the first row of seats... so I ask to look at it, and when I turn it around... sure enough there is my design for the Schedule on it..

I was flattered at first, then kind of pissed....

The wallpaper schedule designs were given for free with the intent to be available for all fans to download off of their site. Had I known that one of their marketing guys (whom I wasnt accquainted with) was going to use it to slap on some Aramark Soda Cups and charge $6 a shot for them, I probably would have written up a contract and asked to get paid.

Whereas some might say the NFL owns the rights to the team logos and marks... this is very true... but all of the other elements of the design and the concept as a whole would have been my IP had I writted up a contract.

Now don't get me wrong... I have built some great relationships with people in the Seahawks Organization and I get taken care of by them.... so I didn't make a big deal out of it... although in retrospect maybe I should have.

naw, i wouldnt have said anything either. don't want to ruin a good relationship. kinda like when you let your girlfriend yell everything and you just smile and nod like you are listening, because you know later that night, it will be worth it.

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I do know sounds like something joel_fiasco would say...but I would not might a copy of that form. I have a form and I am sure it has many holes in it.

To add my $0.02. Its a little off topic but in my shop I have a set of rules for a design. If you come to me with an order to be printed, and your need a design or logo. I charge $25 an hour for MY TIME to design, I retain the design and it goes into my personal clip-art. Which can be used by another client with similar needs. For example a hockey team may come to me and want a lion designed on the front of their jerseys, then a High School volleyball team might come in and ask for a design 'lion volleyball'. I will use the same graphic just different text. If the client likes the design and would like to use it for other things like signs adn business cards then they a pay Logo Fee and the design becomes there own.

 

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I do know sounds like something joel_fiasco would say...but I would not might a copy of that form. I have a form and I am sure it has many holes in it.

To add my $0.02. Its a little off topic but in my shop I have a set of rules for a design. If you come to me with an order to be printed, and your need a design or logo. I charge $25 an hour for MY TIME to design, I retain the design and it goes into my personal clip-art. Which can be used by another client with similar needs. For example a hockey team may come to me and want a lion designed on the front of their jerseys, then a High School volleyball team might come in and ask for a design 'lion volleyball'. I will use the same graphic just different text. If the client likes the design and would like to use it for other things like signs adn business cards then they a pay Logo Fee and the design becomes there own.

donovan, just pm me your email address, and i'll get that form to you.

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I think you are out of luck in this case, 'Grish. I just stumbled upon a copy of the Graphic Artist's Guild Pricing and Ethical Guidelines 9th Edition, and since the client offered payment, and you allowed him to use the image, I think this is considered "work for hire," which, unless otherwise specified, the rights are transferred to the client upon final transaction.

By the way, if anybody needs any specific sections of this book, I can send you them. Contracts, aggrements, prices, etc.

I still don't have a website, but I have a dribbble now! http://dribbble.com/andyharry

[The postings on this site are my own and do not necessarily represent the position, strategy or opinions of adidas and/or its brands.]

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