Falcons unsure whether to punish Mora

[pcgd]

Personally, if a player gets a defensive cordinator to change their game plan, they are doing something right.

Micheal Vick does that.

[EagleFan344]

Im sick of everybody saying Vick is good because he "wins games".

Im also pissed that Orton is better than McNabb

[paynomind]

Im sick of everybody saying Vick is good because he "wins games".

Im also pissed that Orton is better than McNabb

Yeah, that makes sense... what kind of idiot values "winning games."

That's over rated.

I'll borrow form a previous post in another thread to prove my point (and ITE's)

A guy comes to a team and turns them from a boring, losing team, into one of the most exciting. A guy who turns a perennial losing franchise into one who expects to make the playoffs. A guy who wins 67% of games he starts over his entire career.

2005: 8-5

2004: 11-3

2003: 3-1 (injury)

2002: 8-5-1

2001: 1-1

Overall: 31-15-1

If you except his Junior and Senior year of college (2001 and 2002 would have been, had he not left early) he is 22-9 as a starter. Winning 71% of his games.

Thats right, if he'd have played through his senior year in college, Vick would just now be wrapping up his third year in the NFL. ANy third year QBs you think are better? Whoever you just said, you are wrong.

In no way is a QB who rushes for almost 3,000 yards and 20TDs, who wins the vast majority of the time, overrated.

If the NFL's team rosters were all dissolved today, and the entire league re-drafted, Vick would be one of the top 3 QBs taken. He is only 25, people. Don?t give up on him yet. He still has the capacity to learn and get better. Which is a scary thing. Imagine if he had a WR on his team that could make another NFL team?s roster. Wouldn?t that be scary too?

Go ahead and write off Vick. He will burn you.

[EagleFan344]

Only GM that would draft Vick top 3 would be Matt Millen.

[Sterling84]

I will never use the term "overrated" nor will I use the term "underrated". They don't mean anything. Or, if I HAVE ever used it, I apologize.

But I will say that I don't think Michael Vick right now is a good quarterback. He is by far one of the most amazing physical specimens to ever grace the position. But the people chasing him for a living are far more athletic than in previous generations as well. And several teams seem to have "solved" him from a speed persective. He's smallish, injury prone, and always torn between influences to do what comes naturally or become what people want him to be.

And I'll add this much too, yes....he's going to gain experience and savvy. But he's also going to lose a step in terms of elusiveness. Not much, but some. And at this level, with the talent what it is, losing a little is a lot. And once the raw speed is gone even a little with age, you have to look at what remains. Look at Randy Moss this season. Awful team and circumstances aside, we saw him get caught from behind for the first time this year. He was never a technical route runner and now that his speed and athleticism has diminished even 2% he has fallen back into the very average and defendable category because his game isn't well rounded. You've always got to be working on having something new up your sleeve, and it seems to me that all players who rely solely on athleticism have trouble adding new wrinkles to their game once their skills alone aren't enough.

Would it help to have better receivers? Absolutely. But he's got (or is part of) the leagues top ground game. That aught to buy him plenty of time/respect from the defense to pick apart a secondary and yet he doesn't.

For me, I need to see one team win it all with a scrambling QB before I believe it's worth pursuing as a viable option. Somebody will reference Tarkenton but I don't see any rings on his fingers. Cunningham changed the game in his own way and electrified crowds, but his best offensive seasons were after he was old and running was a last resort.

Even with my current QB testing the limits of ridiculous interceptions, I wouldn't want Vick on the Packers. I just don't get it. Football is beautiful because at it's core, it's still a highly coordinated dance with every player doing their part. And it's won and lost on the offensive and defensive lines..in the trenches. Impose your will there, and you cannot lose. I don't blame Vick the man, he does what he can with his given skills, but I resent the NBA-ification of marketing one man over the team or even the league. Half the people decked out in Vick jerseys (maybe not in Atlanta but here) probably only know him from trading for him in Madden so they can run around like crazy fools.

I'd guesstimate his career is about 50/50 right now in regards to odds of ultimate success (SB Ring, HOF etc). He'll own all kinds of NFL QB rushing records and still shake people out of their jocks for another 3 years if he stays healthy.

I don't wish him ill or failure, I'd actually like to see the Falcons really go crazy and use him like nobody else can. Absurd formations, let him run 1/3 of the time on designated rollouts and stuff. Have the right tackle snap the ball to him in a 2 TE formation and sweep left, overloading the strong side. Noone would catch him from behind, that's for sure. Then you'd have to beware the ability of him passing if there was no hole. IF he's THAT "one in a million" then they owe it to him to dust off the playbook and really revolutionize. Good or not, they shouldn't expect him to be something he isn't. And his Pro-Bowl nod would be an insult if the ProBowl had any integrity to begin with.

My $0.02

[See Red]

I don't think he's torn between his natural ability and what people want him to be as much as he's torn between his ability and how his coach wants him to play.

People have this crazy idea that a Quarterback has to be able to throw for 3,500 yards, and 30 TD's to be considered one of the best in the league... why? His team wins football games with him, and they don't without him, and the guys around him are better because of his presence. If every team in the NFL suddenly decided they, no matter what, weren't going to let Tom Brady beat them when they played the Pats and played the pass every play, ya think his stats would suffer? That's the case with Michael Vick. There's a reason defenders and defensive coordinators fear him more than anybody else in the league. There's a reason teams completely revamp their defensive gameplan for the Falcons.

Take away Marvin Harrison, Brandon Stokley, and Reggie Wayne and give Peyton #5 quality WR's... ya think he breaks the single season TD record?

Whether or not you win football games is what counts in professional sports. The Falcons win games with him, and they lose games without him. How can any of you dispute that?

[NJTank]

Does Peyton Manning break records probally not but he will still bone of the best QBs in the NFL.

Besides Alge Crumpler is not chopped liver.

[See Red]

Does Peyton Manning break records probally not but he will still be one of the best QBs in the NFL.

So what you're saying is that not having WR's does, in fact, affect a QB's stats?

Why is it any different with Michael Vick?

There is not one group of less capable WR's in the NFL.

[NJTank]

Michael Jenkins is not that bad.

[Sterling84]

Whether or not you win football games is what counts in professional sports. The Falcons win games with him, and they lose games without him. How can any of you dispute that?

I'm only saying that they also lose games with him. Enough this year in fact to miss the postseason. So something isn't working.

[yh]

I hate to interrupt this Vick debate to return to the original topic, but I would like to share my thoughts on the Falcons determining whether to discipline Mora. I feel that the team must take some sort of action, be it a reprimand, a fine or whatever as a means of communicating that this type of behavior is not acceptable for such a high profile team official. I realize Mora was upset and frustrated regarding the game and having a broadcaster question his playcalling in a tight contest, however he should be better prepared to handle those types of situations and should certainly not fly off the handle. Yes, it is certainly admirable to have passion and to be upset regarding a close loss, however there are limits within which you must be expected to stay when you are representing your employer in front of the media. A coach who is not prepared to provide an intelligent and civil reply to even the most ridiculous question is not fully prepared for a game. Preparation goes beyond x's and o's and that which happens on the field between kickoff and the final whistle - it covers the whole gamut, 24/7. Preparation clearly includes how to deal with the outcome of games, win or lose. If you can't anticipate what could happen before, during or after a game, then you're not doing your job to its fullest extent.

[BBTV]

There is not one group of less capable WR's in the NFL.

Donovan McNabb and Mike McMahon would beg to differ.

[See Red]

There is not one group of less capable WR's in the NFL.

Donovan McNabb and Mike McMahon would beg to differ.

But that's because of injuries... when completely healthy, even without T.O., the Eagles WR's are better

[BBTV]

There is not one group of less capable WR's in the NFL.

Donovan McNabb and Mike McMahon would beg to differ.

But that's because of injuries... when completely healthy, even without T.O., the Eagles WR's are better

The only injured WR is Todd Pinkston, who twice intentionally didn't catch a ball to avoid getting his 160 lb ass slammed. Once on national TV. Reggie Brown might have some upside, but Greg Lewis and Billy McMullen are absolutely the worst WR tandem in the league.

Wow. I can't believe I'm arguing so much on the side of my own team's players sucking, but dammit they suck the most.

[JQK]

Playoffs?

Best.

NFL Quote.

Ever.

That clip will never get old...

[FiddySicks]

Playoffs?

Best.

NFL Quote.

Ever.

That clip will never get old...

Thats the ringtone for my cell phone

[TFoA]

For the Mora issue, he should be punished for that, because it did look like he lost his composure big time on a big scale of a radio show. You can't be goin around throwin stuff just because someone asked you a question you didn't like. I like Jim Mora, but I can't really defend him here, and I kinda took offense to the fact that now it looks like his goal WASN'T to go to the playoffs, but to bring 2 consecutive winning seasons to Atlanta for the first time ever. That's good and all, but if you don't make the playoffs then what good is that? "Diddly-poo."

And as for Vick...the bottom line is this: With him we have a shot. Without him we have no shot. Like Payno said, he wins games, like PCGD said, he makes defensive coordinators change their gameplans. The fact is, it's really that in true NFL fashion, the defenses are adapting to Vick's X-Factor, and it''s not that Vick is bad or he's declining, and it makes me sick that Tank is bashing him just because he ruined his fantasy team one year. Ridiculous. But back to the point, if you wanna bash Vick because of his stats, fine, go ahead, Vick ain't your regular put up stats QB that the media wants him to be. Vick does one thing, and that's win games more than any Falcon QB in history. That's it, he wins games. Now he didn't do that good of a job of that this year, but nonetheless he still did it better than any Falcon QB in history.

[TFoA]

Im sick of everybody saying Vick is good because he "wins games".

Is that not the point of the game?

[NJTank]

Vick does one thing, and that's win games more than any Falcon QB in history. That's it, he wins games. Now he didn't do that good of a job of that this year, but nonetheless he still did it better than any Falcon QB in history.

Well I would agree with that but when you have such legends as Bob Lee and Steve Bartkowski

[EagleFan344]

Im sick of everybody saying Vick is good because he "wins games".

Is that not the point of the game?

Teams win games, not single players.