Decals shouldn't look like cheap stickers

[logodawg]

It's an old photo of Danny White from '85. My point is that they could have used an exacto knife to make the edges smoother.

So you're saying that if you were the Cowboys equipment manager you would exacto knife around each of the 110 stars you had to replace each week?

If an equip. mgr.'s replacing 110 helmet logos a week, he's doing something very, very wrong.

It was a general number. But I bet that after each game each helmet is gone over and retouched, we are talking about the NFL here. And the decals are probably replaced on a good number of helmets (o-line, d-line...).

The point I was simplely trying to make is that these people have enough to do and removing a uniform boarder around a bunch of stars and hope to God they don't f*** them up with the exacto knife isn't really worth anyone's effort.

55 players X 2 stars for each helmet = 110 stars. (For those of you wondering where I got that number.)

[Discrim]

Just an interesting sidenote since the Rams' helmets were brought up. Michigan's helmets are another interesting case. When I was there, the helmet was a yellow helmet, with the blue portion painted on (yellow is tougher to paint on blue). Kind of neat, because I hadn't thought of it that way.

interesting, I always thought it was the other way around, but it makes sense cus painting light colors over dark colors without things looking washed out is tough.

[slats7]

It's an old photo of Danny White from '85. My point is that they could have used an exacto knife to make the edges smoother.

So you're saying that if you were the Cowboys equipment manager you would exacto knife around each of the 110 stars you had to replace each week?

No. I expect him to pick up the phone, call the manufacturer, and demand a decal that doesn't look like a free cereal box prize.

[FiddySicks]

Bike...heh, last time I recall their helmet being used, I think it was in the Arena league around 98 or 99 (I remember the helmet design-the back didn't have an arch like you see on Riddell helmets, but was actually relatively straight.  I recall a lot of Arizona Rattlers wearing this style, and some NFL players wear a similar style.)

The most recent use of the Bike helmets i can remember is when the XFL used them. They look a lot loke the Adams Helmets that pros like Warren Sapp wear

My best guess would that Bike is accually still around in the NFL but they were either taken over by Adams, or just changed their name to Adams. Either way, they are the most comfortable style of football helmet you can buy IMO.

Actually Bike is a two-time loser in the helmet game. Some of this I remember, but this info is also in more detail in the questions section of Helmethut.com:

Bike manufactured the Air Power helmets from their introduction in the 70s until the about 1985/86. At that time Bike's parent company was sold, and the new owners didn't want the entire company open to the liability from helmet injury lawsuits, so they spun the helmet business off into a company called "Air Helmet Inc.". That was circa 1986; by this time most teams were covering the manufacturer logo on the sweatband with a team name decal, but you might find a few pictures of this helmet with the full name logo. Schutt Sports bought Air Helmet Inc. circa 1987; that is when you start to see the sweatband with the "Air" logo; the closest helmet to the old Bike "Air Power" still made is the Schutt "Pro Air II".

After Bike was sold a couple of times over the years they brought out the "Grid Pro" helmet worn by the XFL, Arena League, Warren Sapp and others in 1998/99. The helmet was actually so successful that Bike couldn't fill the orders they had and was forced to sell the line to Adams in 2000 or 2001.

Ouch. So now two of the five helmet manufacturers in the NFL were once owned by Bike, and now they are basically a non existant company? Thats gotta hurt.

So in the NFL we now have

Riddell: Regular, Revolution

Schutt (formerly Bike): Kind of helmet many recievers, including Keyshawn Johnson wear

Adams (formerly Bike): Discussed above

And this little number: worn by players like Omar Jacobs, almost the entire Penn State team, and certain NFL players. Im not sure, but i think its a Bell helmet

EDIT: Nevermind, its a Schutt as well, a DNA

[spyboy1]

It's an old photo of Danny White from '85. My point is that they could have used an exacto knife to make the edges smoother.

You're complaining about something that happened twenty years ago?!?!

We just might have an early leader for the...

Dumbest

Thread

of

the

Year!

20 year old helmet decals? Uh, right.

[John in KY]

Ouch. So now two of the five helmet manufacturers in the NFL were once owned by Bike, and now they are basically a non existant company? Thats gotta hurt.

So in the NFL we now have

Riddell: Regular, Revolution

Schutt (formerly Bike): Kind of helmet many recievers, including Keyshawn Johnson wear

Adams (formerly Bike): Discussed above

And this little number: worn by players like Omar Jacobs, almost the entire Penn State team, and certain NFL players. Im not sure, but i think its a Bell helmet

EDIT: Nevermind, its a Schutt as well, a DNA

Bike is still around; they make jockstraps, wraps, braces, etc. They just don't play in the helmet game any more. Very few companies want to take on the liability.

When I was growing up in the '70s, there were about 10 companies making helmets; some of them still make other sporting goods, others are long gone. Here is who I remember from the '70s who aren't aroung any more:

Rawlings - seemed to be pretty popular in the '60s and 70s, dissapeared for a few years, had a brief comeback in the mid-80s before getting out.

Macgregor - huge among colleges (had clear shells you decaled and painted on the inside), got scared and sold out to someone else who made them up until the mid-80s.

Maxpro - another clear-shell company out of Texas. The Cowboys, Eagles, Steelers, Penn State, and the Southwest Conference were big users. Eventually bought out and closed by Riddell (I think).

Gladiator - used Riddell shells, but had a gell-filled liner that weighted a ton. Riddell bought them out and used to use the name for their reconditioning business.

Then, of course, there were Riddell and Bike; Schutt only made the facemasks back then. There were also at least 3-4 other companies who only made helmets for Pop Warner leagues. I don't remember Adams back in the day; maybe they started out with the kids helmets and moved up to "Varsity" (High School, College and Pro) later.

[Sport]

Gladiator - used Riddell shells, but had a gell-filled liner that weighted a ton. Riddell bought them out and used to use the name for their reconditioning business.

worst idea ever. If you wore one of those in cold weather like Ohio State used to it would get close to freezing and become solid as a rock. SMART.

[FiddySicks]

Macgregor - huge among colleges (had clear shells you decaled and painted on the inside), got scared and sold out to someone else who made them up until the mid-80s.

Maxpro - another clear-shell company out of Texas. The Cowboys, Eagles, Steelers, Penn State, and the Southwest Conference were big users. Eventually bought out and closed by Riddell (I think).

Oh so that explains what ive always been wrong about. Ive seen pictures of old time helmets that obviously had the decals under some sort of layer, i always thought it was some sort of thick laquer they painted over the shells

[raz]

Maxpro - another clear-shell company out of Texas.  The Cowboys, Eagles, Steelers, Penn State, and the Southwest Conference were big users.  Eventually bought out and closed by Riddell (I think).

Oh so that explains what ive always been wrong about. Ive seen pictures of old time helmets that obviously had the decals under some sort of layer, i always thought it was some sort of thick laquer they painted over the shells

Hey this may be the explanation of that old Philadelphia Eagles black-outline/no-black-outline controversy. There IS no black outline, but it appears to be one because its on the INSIDE of the CLEAR helmet, with white paint over it. possible??

[pagan696]

its a thin clear base decal (2mil) that has the screenprinted logo (usually w a white primer base), and a heavy (durable 10mil) overlaminate.

the wide contour cut outside (the star in the 1st image) is to ensure the points don't curl up or come off during physical gameplay.

i do lots of football helmet decals this way.

granted, the Cowboys helmet logo contour posted is a bit larger than i would do, but that's why.

[slats7]

It's an old photo of Danny White from '85. My point is that they could have used an exacto knife to make the edges smoother.

You're complaining about something that happened twenty years ago?!?!

We just might have an early leader for the...

Dumbest

Thread

of

the

Year!

20 year old helmet decals? Uh, right.

Um, we discuss vintage helmets and uniforms all the time. In fact, I see a thread devoted to the 1976 Orioles. Are THEY wasting your precious time too?

[Roger Clemente]

It's an old photo of Danny White from '85. My point is that they could have used an exacto knife to make the edges smoother.

You're complaining about something that happened twenty years ago?!?!

We just might have an early leader for the...

Dumbest

Thread

of

the

Year!

20 year old helmet decals? Uh, right.

Um, we discuss vintage helmets and uniforms all the time. In fact, I see a thread devoted to the 1976 Orioles. Are THEY wasting your precious time too?

Probably not in the fact that we discuss the logo and uniform at hand and not the quality of the production of that logo or uniform.

--Roger "Time?" Clemente.

[John in KY]

Maxpro - another clear-shell company out of Texas.  The Cowboys, Eagles, Steelers, Penn State, and the Southwest Conference were big users.  Eventually bought out and closed by Riddell (I think).

Oh so that explains what ive always been wrong about. Ive seen pictures of old time helmets that obviously had the decals under some sort of layer, i always thought it was some sort of thick laquer they painted over the shells

Hey this may be the explanation of that old Philadelphia Eagles black-outline/no-black-outline controversy. There IS no black outline, but it appears to be one because its on the INSIDE of the CLEAR helmet, with white paint over it. possible??

No, the Eagles black outline year was 1973, which predates the existance of the Maxpro helmets. Most of the Eagles players wore Riddell back in that era. The Maxpros seem to start with a couple of Cowboys in 1974, but took to more like 1976 to catch on in any numbers with other teams. However, by the end of the 70s a whole bunch of Eagles, Steelers and Cowboys players were using them. The colleges were more likely to only use one brand of helmet; the pros typically got to choose the brand they wanted (or were paid to use).

Memory is a hazy thing, but I do remember at least some of the 1973 Eagles helmets as having the black outlines. It could be possible that only players who got new helmets in 1973, like Roman Gabriel, got ones with the black outline. Some players probably were still wearing their 1970-72 helmets that didn't have the outline.

Speaking of the Eagle, their 1974 helmets (first year back to green helmets with silver wings/grey pants/all those stripes on the jerseys) were ahead of their time - I remember having an old Sport magazine with photos of an Eagles/Cards game from from either 1974 or 1975 - all the Eagles helmets were metallic green - predating the current trend toward "chromed" and "dazzle" helmets (other than silver, gold, and Cowboy's silver blue) by about 23 years. That only lasted a couple of years, to maybe 1976 when the went back to plain kelly green.

[-kj]

Um, we discuss vintage helmets and uniforms all the time. In fact, I see a thread devoted to the 1976 Orioles. Are THEY wasting your precious time too?

While the rest of this thread has turned out to be interesting and educational about helmets in general, I think we're all still waiting for more recent pictoral examples of the original complaint. Because, frankly, complaining that decals are being done wrong, then showing a picture from twenty years ago as evidence, is just ludicrous.

[Sec19Row53]

No, the Eagles black outline year was 1973, which predates the existance of the Maxpro helmets.  Most of the Eagles players wore Riddell back in that era.  The Maxpros seem to start with a couple of Cowboys in 1974, but took to more like 1976 to catch on in any numbers with other teams.  However, by the end of the 70s a whole bunch of Eagles, Steelers and Cowboys players were using them.  The colleges were more likely to only use one brand of helmet; the pros typically got to choose the brand they wanted (or were paid to use).

Memory is a hazy thing, but I do remember at least some of the 1973 Eagles helmets as having the black outlines.  It could be possible that only players who got new helmets in 1973, like Roman Gabriel, got ones with the black outline.  Some players probably were still wearing their 1970-72 helmets that didn't have the outline. 

[Off the original topic] Except that this photo shows that Roman Gabriel DIDN'T have a black outline on his helmet:

while this one shows Norm Snead WITH one (and Snead wasn't with the Eagles in 1973):

[paynomind]

Nice vintage pics.

The clear helmet, painted inside makes a lot of sense. I guess more durable materials now have allowed them to go to outside painting.

John, exceptional insight and information on the unis. I love reading your posts, always full of great information. Thank you.

Pagan, nice industry info about how the decals come to be. No one here owuld know more about 'stickers' than you!

I love the technology aspect of the games. Gel-filled liners in helmets? Crazy!

[Hank Hill]

Why the unsightly plastic "halo" around the star?

Don't you criticize the Dallas Cowboys helmet, the second greatest symbol of our country right after the American Flag itself.

If you were right here in front of me, I'd kick your ass sonny!

Hank

[BBTV]

Odd that in the pic that shows the Eagles w/o black outlines on the wings, the pants have black-green-black stripes, while in the pic w/ black outlined wings, the pants have only green-white-green stripes. Should probably have been the other way around. (Personally, I think the current team would look sweet with silver helmets w/ green wings and silver pants, but that's just me )

IIRC, the black outline on the wings is one of the most debated topics in the football uni. research community, with many historians claming that the outline is merely a shadow or decal-bevel.

[John in KY]

[Off the original topic] Except that this photo shows that Roman Gabriel DIDN'T have a black outline on his helmet:

while this one shows Norm Snead WITH one (and Snead wasn't with the Eagles in 1973):

I'll be honest with you, we didn't get many Eagles games here back in the early 70s, and my family tended to watch the AFC games in those days (my dad was a Browns fan going back to the Otto Graham days, and although we left Cincinnati the year before the Bengals began they were the closest team to Louisvile, so we rooted for them as well).

I do remember the Rawlings officially licensed NFL helmets that were sold at Sears, JCPenney, etc., and I remember the Eagles ones as having the black outline. Of course, that is 32 years (and a few brain cells in high school and college) down the pike .

Curtis over at Helmethut did a replica of Gabriel's '72 helmet with the black trim, and this one picture they have posted seems to show it:

Sec19Row53 - I'll have to look at your photos tonight; our IT police have Photobucket blocked, but I don't doubt you're posts. I think the black trim/no black trim is going to go down as one of the NFL's great mysteries. Maybe someone could get Steve Sabol and NFL films to track it down - assuming footage still exists in their vaults.

[John in KY]

Nice vintage pics.

The clear helmet, painted inside makes a lot of sense. I guess more durable materials now have allowed them to go to outside painting.

John, exceptional insight and information on the unis. I love reading your posts, always full of great information. Thank you.

Pagan, nice industry info about how the decals come to be. No one here owuld know more about 'stickers' than you!

I love the technology aspect of the games. Gel-filled liners in helmets? Crazy!

paynomind - thanks!

Actually, I think Riddell's original helmets from the 30s, 40s and early 50s were clear and painted on the inside, but the material was pretty flimsey. When they switched to a sturdier opaque plastic, it was in some neutral color (grey or tan) and painted on the outside - even the white ones. The stripes were often painted on as well. Riddell didn't star molding helmets in white plastic until the late 60s, and other solid colors didn't come in until about 1970 or so.

I think the next generation of clear shells came in in the late 60s so that the equipment managers didn't have to retouch the helmets during the season. Back then they only reconditioned and repainted the helmets at the end of the season. These days a lot of the pro teams and some college teams with painted helmets send them out for reconditioning during the season; maybe they keep two sets of helmets and send them that way.