Jump to content

Mark McGwire


Hat Boy

Recommended Posts

The difference between McGwire and Killebrew is we know Killebrew was clean. We aren't totally sure about McGwire.

That being said, there is also nothing proven that McGwire took steroids or that he cheated in any way. Yes, we know about the Andro, but that was a legal substance for baseball.

So unless something comes out until the voting, McGwire should be a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How can we know Kilebrew was clean though? Everyone says about baseball "if your not cheating, your not trying."

I'd be willing to bet a lot of players did things against the rules to get an edge up on the competition.

However, to go back and speculate about those facts without proof is pointless.

Mac's homerun numbers nevered spiked too much. Sure, 70 was a career year, but he hit 49 his rookie year.

He was always a big guy, but yes, he beefed up a lot. But here's the thing, most people close to him say he had a ridiculous lifting schedule and whatnot that they haven't seen many other players try. Honestly, a hefty workout schedule and legal supplements such as Andro, and it's not that hard to see how McGwire could beef up.

All anyone really has on McGwire is that he's huge, he hit a lot of homeruns, Canseco's book hype, and some investigations which he was tied to, but not conclusively found to be using steriods.

Sure, you can rationalize that steroids, but there's just as good probably better rationalization that he did not.

Futhermore, to condemn him because he didn't deny under oath is very wrong. He had some shaky legal advice, but ultimatley, he was determined not to let Congress get involved in a witch hunt (he wouldn't say anything about the past regarding other players either). I'm not sure McGwire thought Congress should have interacted at all, but he was right there willing to help them make changes for the future but all they wanted was to condemn guys past. McGwire wasn't gonna let them.

McGwire's word is enough for me, and he's said plenty of times that he hasn't used steriods. Some people have pasts that require them to talk under oath to maybe tell the truth, but McGwire's word has always been good before, no reason to stop believing it.

Also, once again, what good is a denial under oath? Even if he hadn't immediatley been called a liar, he surely would have been right back in the same position once Palmeiro tested positive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If McGwire is in the HOF some day... with what cap will he wear in the plaque: A's or Cards?

Good question. I would say St. Louis because his most legendary years as a hitter were spent as a Cadrinal.

Yeah, but he spent 12 seasons playing in Oakland and 4 seasons in St. Louis.

Mmmmmhhhh...

(Better he doesn't got elected to the HOF :D )

pennants.png


It's great to be young and a Giant! - Larry Doyle

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, but he spent 12 seasons playing in Oakland and 4 seasons in St. Louis.

A's hat.

In Oakland, he won A.L. ROY, a World Series and a Gold Glove. That is where he set the rookie HR record. Plus, most of his All-Star appearance were with the A's.

His greatest moment as a Cardinal (70 HR season) has been surpassed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah, but he spent 12 seasons playing in Oakland and 4 seasons in St. Louis.

A's hat.

In Oakland, he won A.L. ROY, a World Series and a Gold Glove. That is where he set the rookie HR record. Plus, most of his All-Star appearance were with the A's.

His greatest moment as a Cardinal (70 HR season) has been surpassed.

I have no problem if Mac choose's the A's, but Mark's 70 homer season has only been passed in number.

What he (and Sosa) did to the game that year is something that might be equaled but will never be surpassed in that way. Bonds chase wasn't really even followed.

Also, Bonds even admitted to steroids (whether it was intentional or not I suppose isn't clear...), so his seems to be a definate result of steriods.

Which brings up another question. Barry Bonds was gonna be a hall of fame caliber player before he used steriods. But the steriods among other things (his armor) turned him into a different kid of force. It's that force that had/have people calling him the greatest hitter ever.

Regardless, some have said if you used steriods, you cheated, you should be out.

Is that your thought on Bonds as well?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yeah the cream and the clear..So if Bonds admitted he did it what does that do to him?

Maybe as the witch hunt goes on, someone will come out (like the grand jury testimony from Bonds buddy/ trainer) on Big Mac..Right now all we have is the reputable Jose Canseco..

The point has been made (and I don't want to trash Killebrew for no reason) but how do we know other hall of famers are clean? Did they use speed? What if Mickey Mantle used steroids? Who would have known?

Big Mac did not have a spike in HR's..One could argue that the Andro (and whatever) helped his back..If you look his HR/ AB figures are pretty consistent through his career..(unlike say Sammy Sosa who was a skinny singles hitter on the Rangers)..He just was injured a lot early in his career..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How many people already in the HOF cheated at somepoint? Plenty I would imagine.

I have to say I would put McGwire in as early as possible, Nothing Gwynn or Ripken did was as electryfying as that home run record chase. That really reignited the game after the strike season, and should be recognised as such.

Wembley-1.png

2011/12 WFL Champions

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How many people already in the HOF cheated at somepoint? Plenty I would imagine.

I have to say I would put McGwire in as early as possible, Nothing Gwynn or Ripken did was as electryfying as that home run record chase. That really reignited the game after the strike season, and should be recognised as such.

Well, Ripkens' streak did that too and that happened in the first season after the strike. One could argue baseball needed that more than the Home Run chase 3 years later.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How many people already in the HOF cheated at somepoint? Plenty I would imagine.

I have to say I would put McGwire in as early as possible, Nothing Gwynn or Ripken did was as electryfying as that home run record chase. That really reignited the game after the strike season, and should be recognised as such.

Well, Ripkens' streak did that too and that happened in the first season after the strike. One could argue baseball needed that more than the Home Run chase 3 years later.

It might have just been because I was three years younger at the time, but I don't think what Ripken did electrified baseball.

A consecutive games streak simply isn't electrifing. If it interests you, all you have to do is watch to see that he's in the lineup.

With McGwire's chase, it was a more electric record (probably not as hard to break...just more exciting), and it was exciting to try and watch every at bat because any one pitch to Mac could have been a historic home run.

I really think the McGwire (and Sosa) chase brought more people to the game than Ripken's did, though that's not something that can be statistically proven...there's too many factors.

That said, I'm not sure someone should go into the Hall of Fame for just one season, no matter how important and exciting. Mac however had many real strong seasons, and the HOF should recognize the exciting year in addition to his great career.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A consecutive games streak simply isn't electrifing. If it interests you, all you have to do is watch to see that he's in the lineup.

Agreed.

The HR record is more "sexy." People know numbers like Aaron's 755, Maris' 61, Bonds' 73. I doubt many people knew what Gehrig's consecutive games number was (until Ripken got close) or know what Ripken's final tally was.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.