Super Bowl XL - The Game Discussion

[Cujo]

That picture doesn't help at all. It is taken at such an extreme angle and at a different height level that it can't be used to make a call either way. But if you were posting it to show that he DID cross the line, I think you made a mistake. To me, it looks as if the arm is not touching the goal line and the ball is well craddled in the arm. I still dont feel it was a touchdown, but this picture doesnt help with either argument really.

Calm down people. If this was a 4th down play, I could understand everyone being upset at the call, but it was just 3rd down. I'm pretty sure Pittsburgh would have punched it in on 4th down from an inch out anyways if it were called the other way.

[Squeaks4]

I dont really care. I dont care about either team. Just putting in my two cents. And chances are Cowher would of kicked a field goal to be on the safe side so it might have a bigger impact then you think. But either way, its all "what ifs" now. Steelers won and no one is going to take that away from them.

[ninersdd]

i hope someone hasnt posted this yet..

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation...g?event_id=2011

fill it out and look at the results, i was suprised by the answers

This one shocked me:

10) Which major sport has the best officials?

45.0% MLB

22.6% NHL

20.6% NBA

11.8% NFL

Yep, its true.

It's sad how MLB is now the best.(I think its because they make the least amount of mistakes because of the fact they don't have instant replay.

If you ask me NFL officials are handing out holding penalties like candy. And you can't let players whine to get calls(like Joey Porter did).

[infrared41]

i hope someone hasnt posted this yet..

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation...g?event_id=2011

fill it out and look at the results, i was suprised by the answers

This one shocked me:

10) Which major sport has the best officials?

45.0% MLB

22.6% NHL

20.6% NBA

11.8% NFL

Yep, its true.

It's sad how MLB is now the best.(I think its because they make the least amount of mistakes because of the fact they don't have instant replay.

If you ask me NFL officials are handing out holding penalties like candy. And you can't let players whine to get calls(like Joey Porter did).

You know I made a comment about two months ago that one of the reasons I liked NCAA football better than the NFL was because the officiating in the NFL was so horrendous. I also said NFL officials played too large a role in the outcome of NFL games. I got beat up pretty good in here over those comments. By the reaction one would have thought I said Atlanta and Arizona's new uniforms were ugly or something.

I am glad that the Super Bowl finally showed the world what a lot of us have seen for a long time. Something needs to be done because this time it happened on the biggest stage of them all. Between the Super Bowl and some of the calls that seemed like the officials were doing everything they could to aid Indy against the Steelers the NFL is looking a little shady.

I am not saying the games are fixed or anything. Nor am I saying that I believe that the refs will call one team tighter than the other to help "move the best story or more popular team along." All I am saying is that if I were the NFL and I wanted to help some teams and hurt others I wouldn't do a thing differently than what they do right now when it comes to calling games. There's no fire but you gotta admit there's at least a hint of smoke here.

Go ahead light me up again.

[ninersdd]

i hope someone hasnt posted this yet..

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation...g?event_id=2011

fill it out and look at the results, i was suprised by the answers

This one shocked me:

10) Which major sport has the best officials?

45.0% MLB

22.6% NHL

20.6% NBA

11.8% NFL

Yep, its true.

It's sad how MLB is now the best.(I think its because they make the least amount of mistakes because of the fact they don't have instant replay.

If you ask me NFL officials are handing out holding penalties like candy. And you can't let players whine to get calls(like Joey Porter did).

You know I made a comment about two months ago that one of the reasons I liked NCAA football better than the NFL was because the officiating in the NFL was so horrendous. I also said NFL officials played too large a role in the outcome of NFL games. I got beat up pretty good in here over those comments. By the reaction one would have thought I said Atlanta and Arizona's new uniforms were ugly or something.

I am glad that the Super Bowl finally showed the world what a lot of us have seen for a long time. Something needs to be done because this time it happened on the biggest stage of them all. Between the Super Bowl and some of the calls that seemed like the officials were doing everything they could to aid Indy against the Steelers the NFL is looking a little shady.

I am not saying the games are fixed or anything. Nor am I saying that I believe that the refs will call one team tighter than the other to help "move the best story or more popular team along." All I am saying is that if I were the NFL and I wanted to help some teams and hurt others I wouldn't do a thing differently than what they do right now when it comes to calling games. There's no fire but you gotta admit there's at least a hint of smoke here.

Go ahead light me up again.

Or it could be maybe the refs felt in debt to the Steelers about the Polamalu call and had to repay them by favoring them in the big game. (And I remember you making the NCAA comment)

[Your Name Here]

You know, you can delete earlier posts in the quote boxes. You don't need to quote the entire conversation. I'm just saying...

As for Joey Porter, you could see the back judge attempt to throw his flag before Porter said a word. But he rather comically whiffed. The sideline angle on that touchdown, in my opinion, showed that the ball broke the plane, barely. I was thinking that, when running the ball, maybe the runner should have to down the ball in the endzone, as in rugby. That would eliminate these problems, I think. As for the disparity in penalties, the Seahawks deserved to penalized for wearing those foul and offensive uniforms.

[brinkeguthrie]

I agree. The Seahawks should be flagged for excessively bad uni's.

BTW, MAN are the Seattle fans crying.

They LOST.

Get OVER it.

If you put 40 pts up on the board, would the calls bother you? The refs didnt miss the FGs..didn't punt for a puny avg..or drop the balls for the TE. The team did all that.

ENOUGH!!!

And Holmgren gets up there and says "I didn't know we were playing the referees, too."

Memo to Mike: make that check payable to PAUL TAGLIABUE.

[brinkeguthrie]

That picture doesn't help at all. It is taken at such an extreme angle and at a different height level that it can't be used to make a call either way. But if you were posting it to show that he DID cross the line, I think you made a mistake. To me, it looks as if the arm is not touching the goal line and the ball is well craddled in the arm. I still dont feel it was a touchdown, but this picture doesnt help with either argument really.

Calm down people. If this was a 4th down play, I could understand everyone being upset at the call, but it was just 3rd down. I'm pretty sure Pittsburgh would have punched it in on 4th down from an inch out anyways if it were called the other way.

Well, the QB himself says he didn't make it. As if that's a new flash. He's laughing all the way to the parade.

"Before David Letterman got to shave Ben Roethlisberger's beard Monday night, he got the Steelers' Super Bowl-winning quarterback to admit a little something that might rankle Seahawks fans even more.

Roethlisberger told Letterman that he didn't think he scored on a controversial play in the second quarter that put the Steelers ahead for good 7-3. Roethlisberger dove toward the end zone but didn't appear to get the ball to touch the goal line. But officials on the field signaled touchdown.

"I told Coach, 'I don't think I got in,'" Roethlisberger told Letterman. "But we were getting ready to go for it on fourth down anyway, and I would have run it again. So we would have found a way to get in."

The play infuriated Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren and has provided Seattle fans plenty of fodder for their fury over the game's questionable calls."

[infrared41]

Or it could be maybe the refs felt in debt to the Steelers about the Polamalu call and had to repay them by favoring them in the big game.  (And I remember you making the NCAA comment)

Good point but...The Steelers won the game so there was no reason to make it up to them. Like The Seahawks, The Colts couldn't make the plays to win the game. The key difference is Indy had every and I mean EVERY chance to win that game. Seattle on the other hand got screwed every time they had a little momentum going their way. Hopefully someday someone will do a serious study of this officiating thing and maybe we'll see once and for all if there is any type of pattern or bias that can be shown with real data. Until then we just gotta hope we're imagining things...although you'd be hard pressed to prove that millions of people are all imagining the same thing.

Occam's Razor baby. Make the least assumptions possible and you come up with two pretty good answers.

A. NFL Officials call the games tighter on some teams to make it tougher for them to win than others.

B. NFL officials are every bit as bad as they look.

Either answer is bad news. Do I even need to add how much money is bet on the NFL every season?

That said, I rest my case on the NFL vs. NCAA football. Someone tell me now that the Super Bowl was so much better than the Rose Bowl and how much more "exciting" NFL football is.

[VitaminD]

I am adamant that Roethelsberger did not score that first one. He was clearly

a yard away still. I don't think any minute, miniscule part of the ball crossed the line

and I think that that rule should change to clearly state "completly over". None of

this breaking the plain crap, make 'em earn it.

"A yard away"? Please tell me you're exaggerating. The fact is, the play was simply too close to call. Had the referee called him down on the fringe of the goal line, and the Steelers challenged, they would have lost due to a lack of conclusive evidence. Could one millimeter of pigskin have crossed the first millimeter of end zone? Guess we'll never know, but that single play did not cause the game to be decided. The Steelers would have had 4th and 1 inch, with Bettis in the backfield.

And no matter how you rewrite the rule, there will always be tough calls like this. Let's take your suggestion as an example - the ball must go "completely over". So what if Roethlisberger got 99.999% of the ball over the goal line, but the back end of the ball didn't quite clear the back end of the line. No TD by your rule, right? Even though virtually all of the football is in the end zone.

Point is, boundaries have to be set somewhere, and without an ambiguous gray area - you're in or you're out. Arguing semantics and minutia like the exact wording and how much of a ball needs to be across what part of the line doesn't change the fact that you're separating areas of the field into "score" and "no score".

[infrared41]

"A yard away"? Please tell me you're exaggerating. The fact is, the play was simply too close to call. Had the referee called him down on the fringe of the goal line, and the Steelers challenged, they would have lost due to a lack of conclusive evidence. Could one millimeter of pigskin have crossed the first millimeter of end zone

Everyone seems to be missing the salient details of the call. The point is that the line judge came running in with his hand out like he was going to call it short and spot the ball then he changed his mind and signaled touchdown. (Typical NFL officiating. Indecisive and then wrong.)

Anyway, if the line judge signals TD right away it doesn't look nearly as bad as his mid call switch.

[Squeaks4]

"A yard away"?  Please tell me you're exaggerating.  The fact is, the play was simply too close to call.  Had the referee called him down on the fringe of the goal line, and the Steelers challenged, they would have lost due to a lack of conclusive evidence.  Could one millimeter of pigskin have crossed the first millimeter of end zone

Everyone seems to be missing the salient details of the call. The point is that the line judge came running in with his hand out like he was going to call it short and spot the ball then he changed his mind and signaled touchdown. (Typical NFL officiating. Indecisive and then wrong.)

Anyway, if the line judge signals TD right away it doesn't look nearly as bad as his mid call switch.

Excatly. The line judge came running in pointing untill she saw Big Ben stretched out over the line. He then signaled a touchdown. Which is not the correct thing to do.

[BuddyLane]

Okay. I had to get back in on this. I watched the Super Bowl last night. Every play. I even stopped and rewound the video tape to be sure of most calls. Simply stated, Seattle was their own worst enemy. Sorry, but the facts speak for themselves. Why is it so hard to believe, that as good as team as Seattle may have been, they just didn?t handle the pressure of playing in the Super Bowl very well? Neither team did. However, Pittsburgh did a good job of not giving Seattle the big play. Seattle couldn?t stop the Steelers big plays. Last time I checked, big plays or not, the score shows who won. Seattle had many opportunities. To simply lay blame on the officials for the reason the Seahawks lost is sad. I understand losing the Super Bowl SUCKS. Hell, every Steelers fan hated losing to Dallas, but even we had to admit Dallas was the better team. If Pittsburgh would have played the way they played in the AFC Championship Game, I think Seattle would have been beaten fairly soundly. Seattle had a great year. I think that the fans should be celebrating the fact that this is the best team in Seattle history. As for the calls that the fans are screaming about: Here?s what I found:

1. Dropped pass by D.J. Hackett I the corner of the end zone. Sorry Seahawks fans, but that should have been 6 points there. Yet no one is screaming about this. Just the bad officiating.

2. The pass interference against Seattle in the end zone. (Good Call)

The rule states: ?There shall be no interference with a forward pass thrown from behind the line. The restriction for the passing team starts with the snap. The restriction for the passing team starts when the ball leaves the passer?s hand. Both restrictions end when the ball is touched by anyone.?

The pass interference against the offense rule states: It is pass interference by either team when any player movement beyond the line of scrimmage significantly hinders the progress of an eligible player of such player?s opportunity to catch the ball. Offensive pass interference rules apply from the time the ball is snapped until the ball is touched. Defensive pass interference rules apply from the time the ball is thrown until the ball is touched.?

So to the NewYawkSeahawk, this is according to the rules and was pass interference on Seattle. The Seattle player hindered the defensive player from trying to catch or knock the ball down, as it took place once the ball was in the air.

Also, the play happened right in front of the official. He (the official) reached for his flag the 1st time and missed. He grabbed it the 2nd time and thru it.

3. Holding on Pruit on the punt return.

I haven?t heard anyone call that a bad call. It was a good call.

4. At 14:11 in the 2nd quarter, there was a hold by Seattle while on offense.

It was near the top of the tv screen and you couldn?t see the players numbers. Yet

no Steelers fans are screaming about the officials missing that call or bad

officiating.

5. Dropped pass by Stevens at 12:33 in the 2nd quarter that should have been a fumble.Stevens had possession of the ball and had both feet on the ground he turned around and took one step forward before being hit. Once he was hit he lost control of the ball. Steelers fans could complain about this but the are not.

6. Ben Roethlisberger clearly scored a touchdown.

I posted the picture of this and watched it repeatedly due to all the controversy about it. I myself wasn?t sure until I re-watched it. It was a touchdown.

7. Hold not called on Seattle?s #62 Chris Gray, not called.

He was holding #91 Aaron Smith. This was late in the 2nd quarter.

8. Jackson was out of bounds on that TD catch.To add more support to that, Al Michaels and John Madden never even questioned it. I know they don?t matter, but some one else on here already explained why it wasn?t a touch down.

9. Seahawks waste of time and bad play calling with less than 2 minutes in the 2nd.The Seahawks wasted too much time here and hurt themselves.

10. Josh Brown missed field goal before half time.So far that?s a total of 13 points Seattle hurt themselves on. Not the officiating crew hurt them on. The score at half should have been Seattle 16 Pittsburgh 7.

11. Seattle Defense melts down.

It was not the officiating crews fault that Willie Parker went 75 yards for the touchdown. It was Seattle?s. Here the score should have been Seattle 16 Pittsburgh 14.

12. Stevens dropped pass at 12:37 3rd quarter.

Stevens was Seattle?s own worst enemy.

13. 11:42 3rd quarter, Brown misses 2nd field goal.

The score should have been Seattle 19 Pittsburgh 14.

14. 4:37 3rd quarter Stevens drops his third pass.

Again, Stevens is killing his own team.

15. 4:37 3rd quarter, false start on Shaun Alexander.I can?t argue this one.

16. Holding call on 75 of Seattle. (Bad Call)

Sorry Steelers fans, but this was a horrible call against Seattle.

17. Hasselbeck tackle flagged after his INT. (Bad Call)

Again, this was another bad call by the officials.

18. Seahawks defense fails again.

Randle El?s pass to Hines Ward for a touch down. This was another Seattle defensive mistake. Not the officials. The score should have been Pittsburgh 21 Seattle 19.

19. Roethlisberger calls time out when the play clock hits 0.This was a close call. It could have gone either way. For argument sake, I?ll give it to Seattle. However, it would have only been a 5 yard penalty and replay the down.

20. Seattle fails to stop Pittsburgh on 3rd and 6. Again. Seattle?s defense had the chance to make a critical stop and failed.

21. Again, Seattle gets away with another hold.

Seattle #75 holds Pittsburgh #53. Again, Steelers fans not complaining.

22. Stevens drops another critical catch.Pass at the 2 yd line to Stevens with 3 seconds left on the clock. Who?s to say, if he makes it, the Seahawks could have gone ahead with the go ahead score whether it be a field goal or touch down. The score could have been Seattle 22 Pittsburgh 21 or Seattle 26 Pittsburgh 21.

23. Finally, after reviewing the game and taking notes:

I saw no single penalty that would have kept Seattle from winning the game. Seattle self destructed, the missed opportunities, punts out of bounds, and penalties killed them.

[paynomind]

OK, you obviously spent a lot of time on this post, so I will say:

Wrong. Seattle was the victim of several bad calls. You are wrong about most of them above.

[BuddyLane]

Nice game break down. Care to explain yourself?

[ebod39]

deleted

[ebod39]

"A yard away"?  Please tell me you're exaggerating.  The fact is, the play was simply too close to call.  Had the referee called him down on the fringe of the goal line, and the Steelers challenged, they would have lost due to a lack of conclusive evidence.  Could one millimeter of pigskin have crossed the first millimeter of end zone

Everyone seems to be missing the salient details of the call. The point is that the line judge came running in with his hand out like he was going to call it short and spot the ball then he changed his mind and signaled touchdown. (Typical NFL officiating. Indecisive and then wrong.)

Anyway, if the line judge signals TD right away it doesn't look nearly as bad as his mid call switch.

exactly! which is why I said a "yard away" becuase when you watch the replay,

Ben has the ball cradled in his arm at abou the half yard line, he then lunges it across (as he should or as a running back would to get the cordial spot for the first down) as the linesman runs in

and then changes the call. I mean did the linesman not see him clearly make a second effort after

whistle? the guy hesitated and should have went with his first reaction.

[ebod39]

I am adamant that Roethelsberger did not score that first one. He was clearly

a yard away still. I don't think any minute, miniscule part of the ball crossed the line

and I think that that rule should change to clearly state "completly over".  None of

this breaking the plain crap, make 'em earn it.

"A yard away"? Please tell me you're exaggerating. The fact is, the play was simply too close to call. Had the referee called him down on the fringe of the goal line, and the Steelers challenged, they would have lost due to a lack of conclusive evidence. Could one millimeter of pigskin have crossed the first millimeter of end zone? Guess we'll never know, but that single play did not cause the game to be decided. The Steelers would have had 4th and 1 inch, with Bettis in the backfield.

And no matter how you rewrite the rule, there will always be tough calls like this. Let's take your suggestion as an example - the ball must go "completely over". So what if Roethlisberger got 99.999% of the ball over the goal line, but the back end of the ball didn't quite clear the back end of the line. No TD by your rule, right? Even though virtually all of the football is in the end zone.

Point is, boundaries have to be set somewhere, and without an ambiguous gray area - you're in or you're out. Arguing semantics and minutia like the exact wording and how much of a ball needs to be across what part of the line doesn't change the fact that you're separating areas of the field into "score" and "no score".

my point also goes to this whole fact that the pylon is "in" and you can touch that and it be a touchdown. C'mon that's backyard rules. I am saying lets make this the smash mouth. physical game that it once was and have guys hammer it in, none of this "breaking the plain" crap.

[TLChandler]

5. Dropped pass by Stevens at 12:33 in the 2nd quarter that should have been a fumble.Stevens had possession of the ball and had both feet on the ground he turned around and took one step forward before being hit. Once he was hit he lost control of the ball. Steelers fans could complain about this but the are not.

The ball went out of bounds, it would have been a HUGE break for Seattle. Pittsburgh didn't complain because Seattle would have gotten a first down a ways down the field for it.

[BuddyLane]

exactly! which is why I said a "yard away" becuase when you watch the replay,

Ben has the ball cradled in his arm at abou the half yard line, he then lunges it across (as he should or as a running back would to get the cordial spot for the first down) as the linesman runs in

and then changes the call. I mean did the linesman not see him clearly make a second effort after

whistle? the guy hesitated and should have went with his first reaction.

Okay, I have watched the game film over and over. THE BALL BREAKS THE PLAIN WHILE HE IS IN THE AIR. Sorry, but the facts speak for themselves.