Bryant Gumbel's Comments

[infrared41]

As to be expected, a sensable and intelligent post on the subject by jigga.

Well done.

Yeah I couldn't have said it better myself...although come to think of it, I did say a lot the same things myself. Whites have to be more careful with their remarks? check. Losing jobs? yeah I got that one in. Hassled in stores? check. Denied a loan? sure enough. We just need to deal with it? yup.

Hmm, I wonder if it's because I am white that no one will take me seriously. I thought my post was pretty darn intelligent too. It may have even bordered on "sensable." Damn what's a brother got to do to get some respect around here?

Sorry guys, I couldn't resist. I'm just trying to inject a little humor into a tense thread.

Regarding Gumbel, the minute we stop acting as if his words mean anything is the minute they will stop meaning something. The guy's a :censored:ing talking head on TV for Pete's sake. Every reaction only gives the guy more credibility. What does it say about us when a sportscaster can get everyone up in arms over nothing? Just like in the case of that idiot Rush Limbaugh... Consider the source kids.

[Jigga]

Well we need as many Black Conservatives as we can get JC Watts, Lynn Swann, Condi Rice, always help.

I frimly belive conservatism works for all people and the more people we have spreading the message the better and to get some black people to spread the message and get more black people to become conservtive only makes us stronger.

I dont belive you have to be Liberal to be Black, I find it distusting when people from the NAACP and other groups call Watts, Swann and Rice and those like them Uncle Toms or Oreo Cookies, just becuase they dont agree with their politics.

Please don't get it confused...and I know you weren't referring directly to me, but PLEASE spare me the Oreo Cookie, Uncle Tom . I've heard it a thousand times and it doesn't apply in this case. One question though...do the Black people have to sit in the back at the GOP convention? Maybe that's why Bryant Gumbel couldn't see them.

You don't have to be Liberal to be Black, but if you're Black you're much more likely to be Liberal because as well all know, social conservatives are more likely contribute more to the :censored:ed up race relations in America than Liberals.

However, as a moderate, both Liberals and Conservatives can kiss my ass.

The only Uncle Tom-ish Black conservatives are (funny how you left both out) Alan Keyes and Armstrong Williams, it's more than politics with these asshats. I'd swear if they weren't Black, I'd think they were White supremacists. Oops, I think this is Black-on-Black crime, so I'll quit.

Back to the topic at hand, Bryant Gumbel's an idiot. Greg will always be better, plus his name is cooler.

[HedleyLamarr]

just like Lynn Swann will be a good Governor for PA.

What makes you say that? He was a great wide receiver, and he's done a pretty good job on ABC working the sidelines, but I don't see how these tie into politics. What are Swann's views on tax reform, abortion, and domestic and international affairs?

[VitaminD]

Yeah I couldn't have said it better myself...although come to think of it, I did say a lot the same things myself. Whites have to be more careful with their remarks? check. Losing jobs? yeah I got that one in. Hassled in stores? check. Denied a loan? sure enough. We just need to deal with it? yup.

Regarding Gumbel, the minute we stop acting as if his words mean anything is the minute they will stop meaning something. The guy's a  :censored:ing talking head on TV for Pete's sake. Every reaction only gives the guy more credibility. What does it say about us when a sportscaster can get everyone up in arms over nothing? Just like in the case of that idiot Rush Limbaugh... Consider the source kids.

This defines irony. You (correctly) assert that you said all these things previously in the thread that people are noting from Jigga's post.

Then in the next paragraph, you basically say "Ignore Gumbel, and he'll go away." Compare it to this:

A thought to leave this thread with: If a jacka$$ like Bryant Gumbel makes a stupid, incendiary comment to the world, and everyone refuses to placate him with righteous indignation and vitriol, he'll go away.

Thanks for noticing...

[mfoster]

According to the Science Channel (which my wife and I watch, along with the History Channel, much to the amazement of our 23-year-old son), when humans moved out of Africa and into northern and colder climates, the skin had to evolve into a lighter color for people to survive. Darker skin is less sensitive to extreme light, but the opposite is also true.

An example of this is also seen in Asia. Northern Asians are quite light-skinned while southern Asians are quite dark-skinned.

Without engaging the issue of Gumbel's comments, here's one essay and another offering some scientific discussion explaining skin tone among various peoples.

The first essay mentions the "mass global migrations of the past 500 years," but the fact is people have always been on the move, from out of Africa to the Western Hemisphere migration to the diaspora resultant from "Noah's Flood" of the Black Sea basin due to glacial melt 7,000 years ago. To think that any current nationality in Europe developed in situ without migratory influence is laughable. This goes for the British Isles, 95% of Iberia (the Basques of aside, as they are NOT Indo-European, but a group native to Euskal Herria area presumably since the beginning of the Holocene), Greece, Italy, and the Levant. It also pretty much goes for most everyone in between...

Anyway, I'll stop here before I cause too much thread drift. But this subset of anthropology has always been a hobby of mine.

Marc

[DEAD!]

However, as a moderate, both Liberals and Conservatives can kiss my ass.

VOTE THIRD!!

I don't think any one race should be labelled Liberal or Conservative. It would do society no good if that were true. I'm sure there are plenty of black conservatives out there and if there are more of them, then it would be positive in that we can look beyond race and look at the real issues. But it would have to take more than just inserting blacks in to postions of power. It would have to take a greater look into the issues facing blacks and other minorities for that matter.

[paynomind]

As to be expected, a sensable and intelligent post on the subject by jigga.

Well done.

I don't know if you're being sarcastic, but since you have always been cool in my book, I'll assume that was sincere and say a humble "thank you." It means a lot coming from you!

Absolutely meant it honestly. You do well to size things up often. I dont always nessesarily agree all the time, but you state your points clearly, and make a good arguement.

Now, addressing what Infrared had to say, yes, you did make some of the same points. But, what I liked most was Jiggas first and last two paragraphs.

I agree that there is a double standard. Non-Whites are given much more of a pass when making "racially insensitive remarks" than our White brothers and sisters. I know that sucks for you.

Gumbel's an idiot, pure and simple. IMO, he SHOULD be fired for his comments because Rush and Jimmy the Greek were fired. It's time that sports journalists realize they are in fact sports journalists, not social commentators.

I will watch the Olympics, I will celebrate Shani Davis's win (eventhough it's a girl's name ), and I will root like hell for all the WHITE skiers, skaters, hockey players, boarders, and sledders. Go USA!

These are the ones I agree with most. Standards should be standards for all people, not just white, not just black.

It is MY opinion that the only way to have the idiot whites to stop with their antics is to have the idiot black stop with theirs. Its like tug of war, and as soona s you stop pulling, the sooner they will stop pulling as well.

I honestly dont think people get denied loans simply because of their racial appearance. I don't. Any bank big enough to give a home loan is completely aware of the illegality of it, and wouldnt do it. As far as getting "strange looks" that just helps you identify the morons you dont need to worry about. I've been given plenty of strange looks in Gladys Knight's Chicken and Waffles. I've had folks try to run their scam on me gettign off at the Five Points Marta stop. (No thanks, I dont want to buy that chain with the fake gold wearing off of it, even if it does have a 1k price tag on it.) Looks are just looks.

I think there is always discrimination, in all types. Against gays, blacks, women, red haired, goth, fat, etc. If you look or act distinctive, someone wont like it. The only way to see past it is to determine that anyone who wouldn't hire you because of it isnt someone you'd want to work for anyhow.

Thats really where I think discrimination exists to its greatest extent- employment. I know for a fact that people going through resumes toss out the "Ku Yan" and the "Shequishia Washington" and the "Muhammad Allah" Which is totaly wrong. Some of the most talented people I have worked with werent named "David Williams."

Point being, this is the best time in history to be 'different' than the president. (old, white, straight, skinny, suit-wearing, male) It still aint perfect. But tis better.

[infrared41]

I honestly dont think people get denied loans simply because of their racial appearance. I don't.

Thats really where I think discrimination exists to its greatest extent- employment. I know for a fact that people going through resumes toss out the "Ku Yan" and the "Shequishia Washington" and the "Muhammad Allah" Which is totaly wrong. Some of the most talented people I have worked with werent named "David Williams."

Point being, this is the best time in history to be 'different' than the president. (old, white, straight, skinny, suit-wearing, male) It still aint perfect. But tis better.

If you know for a fact that the "Ku Yan, Shequisha Washington, and Muhammad Allah" resumes are being tossed out then why is it not possible that those same people are being denied loans? It's not much of a leap to make. Tossing out resumes because they have ethnic names is every bit as illegal as denying loans for the same reason. Just because something is illegal doesn't mean people won't still do it. Ever download a song off Napster back when they were free? Have you ever exceeded the speed limit? Maybe done a little underage drinking?

This is not by any definition "the best time in history to be different from the President." Just ask Katrina victims, or better yet, ask anyone who isn't a white right-wing Christian Republican. If anything this is the worst time in history to be different than the President.

Are things better than they used to be? Sure they are but again writing a law can't change the way people think. The laws made discrimination illegal. Time is what it will take for society to catch up with the law. That's just the way it works.

Finally, I have always felt that the ones who cry "reverse discrimination" the loudest aren't looking for justice or fairness. They are looking for justification of their own racial views. Is it really about fairness? Or is it because they want to be able to make racially charged comments with impunity as well? Seriously, is any white person on this board truly upset over what Gumbel said? Or are we just using his comments as a platform to let off a little "angry white guy" steam?

This isn't a simple black and white (no pun intended) issue. It's not clear cut. It's not "either or." It's not simply being allowed to say something or not. Race is a very complicated issue and the problems as well as the solutions extend far beyond what media stars like Gumbel or Limbaugh can fit into a sound bite.

[jkrdevil]

This is not by any definition "the best time in history to be different from the President." Just ask Katrina victims, or better yet, ask anyone who isn't a white right-wing Christian Republican. If anything this is the worst time in history to be different than the President.

I'm going to take a guess that Payno didn't mean this president specificilly. I think he meant the president in general. Everyone of our presidents have been an old, white, straight, suit-wearing, male.

[The_Admiral]

Seriously, is any white person on this board truly upset over what Gumbel said? Or are we just using his comments as a platform to let off a little "angry white guy" steam?

Yea, that's it, nobody is really annoyed or offended, this is just our chance to expose our inner racist! Thanks

[paynomind]

jk is right, I didn't mean different than GBush in particular. I meant non-rich, non-white, non-male, non-straight.

And I follwed it with, "It still aint perfect." I whole-heartedly agree that it isn't perfect.

I do agree that bigotted thinking is still out there. It is tough to be different than the people of your surroundings, no matter where you are or who you are.

I wouldn't recommend Jigga walk through a trailer park in Jasper County any more than he'd recommend I walk through a housing complex in East Point.

And I agree with you about reverse discrimination. I think its mostly a racist venting.

But I still believe if the most vocal, obnoxious 2% of blacks would knock it off, it would do more to ease racial tensions than by raising fists. I realize there have been far too many years of being ignored, but saying 'fukit' and fighting isnt gonna get the job done either.

I'm the kind of person who doesn't see people as black, white, asian. I see folks as asholes or not. Wish I could give everyone that viewpoint... white folks and black.

[NJTank]

You have racist blacks and racist white.

Those in the middle somewhere just need to try and trust first instead of assuming the worst first.

If you go into a job interview and you are black assuming there are white racists its going to affect how you yourself come across and thats going to hurt you in the end. If you go in there with the right attitude then you have a better chance of selling yourself.

[infrared41]

Seriously, is any white person on this board truly upset over what Gumbel said? Or are we just using his comments as a platform to let off a little "angry white guy" steam?

Yea, that's it, nobody is really annoyed or offended, this is just our chance to expose our inner racist! Thanks

I'm not saying everyone is releasing their "inner racist" I am saying that comments like Gumbel's can help illustrate the frustration that certain people have. As has been noted in numerous posts racially charged comments elicit different reactions depending on which "race" is doing the "commenting." Both Gregjigga and I have said that there is certainly a double standard when it comes to comments like Gumbel's.

There are people who will inevitably focus on the "either or" facets of racial debates. For instance, if Gumbel can say something like he said why can't Rush Limbaugh? It's a position that is I suppose legitimate in the broadest sense but it paints with far too broad a brush. The single-minded dedication to "fairness" in this thread is admirable but it's also incredibly naive and simple. If you had chosen to read and react to my entire post you would have seen that I never said anyone was releasing their "inner racist." I was simply pointing out how such comments provide a platform for broader political or racial expression for some people. I also said race is anything but an "either or" debate. Yet 90% of the posts in this thread want it to be just that. That said, if you don't believe that some of the comments posted here are exposing some undertones of bigger racial issues then you are just turning a blind eye to reality.

Anyone who takes a real in-depth look at the racial problems that still exist in this country today would immediately understand that in order for true "fairness" and equality to be acheived the pendulum has to be in the minority corner for a little while. That's how social change takes place. first the firestorm (civil rights movement) then the legislation (civil rights laws) then slow increments towards the goal (right now.) The truth is it's highly doubtful any of us will live long enough to see the day where we aren't having this discussion.

Sorry if my lack of an "either or" perspective offends you. I was just trying to shed some light and offer my opinion. Finally, if someone here is truly "upset" or angry over Gumbel's comments then they need to find a hobby or something. I'm not saying no one should react but to have an actual emotional reaction is taking it a bit too far if you ask me.

[infrared41]

But I still believe if the most vocal, obnoxious 2% of blacks would knock it off, it would do more to ease racial tensions than by raising fists. I realize there have been far too many years of being ignored, but saying 'fukit' and fighting isnt gonna get the job done either.

I'm the kind of person who doesn't see people as black, white, asian. I see folks as asholes or not. Wish I could give everyone that viewpoint... white folks and black.

Does that enlightened "a-hole or not" thinking include the "obnoxious 2% of blacks?" I have one question. What exactly makes the 2% you refer to "obnoxious?"

Nope now I have two questions, are you referring to politically active blacks? And if so what makes their loud and vocal opposition different from a white talk show host (liberal or conservative... so relax Tank) making incendiary comments? Just curious.

[paynomind]

But I still believe if the most vocal, obnoxious 2% of blacks would knock it off, it would do more to ease racial tensions than by raising fists. I realize there have been far too many years of being ignored, but saying 'fukit' and fighting isnt gonna get the job done either.

I'm the kind of person who doesn't see people as black, white, asian. I see folks as  asholes or not. Wish I could give everyone that viewpoint... white folks and black.

Does that enlightened "a-hole or not" thinking include the "obnoxious 2% of blacks?" I have one question. What exactly makes the 2% you refer to "obnoxious?"

Nope now I have two questions, are you referring to politically active blacks? And if so what makes their loud and vocal opposition different from a white talk show host (liberal or conservative... so relax Tank) making incendiary comments? Just curious.

Don't try to paint me as a racist. I'm not.

"enlightened "a-hole or not" thinking"

I'm going to assume you didn't mean that like I thought you did when I first read it. I've deleted this paragraph in order to give you the benefit of the doubt.

When i say the 2% who are obnoixious, I mean whatEVER 2% you find obnoxious. The real idiots of the bunch who try to paint everythign the same way- their way. Teh way that allow them to complain and demand redress. JUST like i hate the 2% idiots of ANY arguement. The world exisits in the middle, and the shame of it all is that all we hear are the inflamitory comments of those in the fringe.

Again, let me type it slower so everyone can understand- I don't see people as black or white. I see people either as folks I respect and would have a beer with, or the type that I would avoid like they had Mad Cow.

I think there are FAR more white a$$hat moron white folks in the world. (Cause there are simply more to pick from, right? ) But finding people worth of respect is the tough part. Even folks who dont beleive the same as I on sports, politics, religeon, etc.

Hell, my best friend and cross-the-street neighbor is black and the thing I'm most likely to hate him for is the fact hes a goddam Yankees fan.

[infrared41]

Don't try to paint me as a racist. I'm not.

I am truly sorry if you took me the wrong way. I am not trying paint anyone as a racist. All I am trying to do is illustrate just how deep the racial issues run in this country. We have all made statements similar to the ones I called you on. The only point I am trying to make is just how complicated the whole thing really is. You made what was to you an innocuos comment yet it came across to me as more than that. Your words certainly were not overtly racist yet they did carry an undertone of racism. You didn't mean it that way but it is dead on to the point I have been trying to make all along.

Now before you go off on me again let me explain what I mean by that."The 2% of blacks who are obnoxious" is a racist statement. We've all done it. It doesn't mean you are fitting yourself for a sheet and hood it's simply illustrates how certain racial ideals are so ingrained in white society. We as whites (and I include myself in that group) expect a certain "behavior" out of our black brethren. If they don't act "white" enough we have a problem with it. If you think I am wrong just go to any NBA thread on this board and count how many times players are referred to as "thugs", "gangstas" etc. We don't acknowledge the cultural differences that lead to "thug-like" behavior and dress in the NBA or NFL. We just see guys who act in a way we find offensive and label them. Deep down that thinking is probably more about cultural differences than racial ones. But add race to the mix and suddenly a cultural difference becomes a pretty volatile issue.

I want to emphasize again that I am not calling you a racist. All I am trying to say is that race is still a much bigger deal in this country than any of us want to admit. Look the whole thing is an issue that is far too deep to delve into on this board. I think our best bet is to get back to sports and uniforms and leave the real problems for a more appropriate forum.

No hard feelings OK?

[DrBear]

Come to think of it, I've never seen a black snowman, either, so there's got to be a conspiracy.

[paynomind]

No hard feelings OK?

Hey, no hard feelings at all. Explaining the intent makes everything all good. I enjoy in-depth conversations from differing perspectives. I appreciate your turning the tone more positive.

I disagree with you about my statement being racist. I think there are idiots in the world. I think everyone will agre. There are folks who take everything too far, get too offended, get too obnoixious, get too ridiculous attaching overtones to every little thing.

Now. Eacha nd every social deliniator in the world, in this case, black and white, has their share fo those idiots.

What *I* am saying is this: Those idiots, the ones who happen to be of the black persuation, who attach all of their identification to being black,a nd all of their attention and effort to pointing out how different hey are, and how different they demand to be treated, are wrong. Everone should be treated the SAME. And the first step for that is for everyone to stop calling attention to themselves. None of us deserve any specail treatment, negative or positive.

Thats my point, and I don't believe that it is racist.

Just like I'd call out Rush or Newt, or Lamiscus for saying something that I thought was insensative, I am calling out Bryant, for saying something that implies that blacks MUST be athletically superior. There is no law that says so. SHani was the best speed skater at that distance this year. Ligity was the best skier at that event this year. Just because more olympians or medalists were white than black, doesnt mean anyone was being racist.

Pointing it out is FAR more racist. And I stand by that.

[CaolinaJoe]

Guys, gotta bust your bubbles on one point, home loans.

Getting a loan is determined on on 3 things:Beacon score, Income, and debt to income. In general, your ability to pay and a history that shows you pay. They type your name and social into the system and your past determines your future. My wife is a loan officer for a large bank, and they have very little leeway in who gets approved based on numbers.

Today is not like in the old black and white movies where someone goes into a bank and ask their childhood friend for a loan. Forget get George Bailey in "It's a Wonderful Life". Just doesn't happen.

Payno, I have no doubt you are not a rascicst. But comments like "The 2% of blacks who are obnoxious" and "Hell, my best friend and cross-the-street neighbor is black.." do your cause no good. Especially the latter.